Your offseason plans for the Bulls

[Andi Obst]

Bulls Get
Nic Claxton-Nets 4yrs 22M pers Sign and Trade because he wants to go to a contender

So then why does he agree to a trade to Chicago?

Play-in contender, duh.

[Muzbar]

Bulls Get
Nic Claxton-Nets 4yrs 22M pers Sign and Trade because he wants to go to a contender

So then why does he agree to a trade to Chicago?

Play-in contender, duh.

Of course.

Now it makes perfect sense.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

Any hope i have about this team starts and ends with Vuc not starting. As long as that's the case, there are no surrounding moves to fix it.

[Evil_Headband]

I think this video make a good anti-tanking case.

Watch on YouTube

[dougthonus]

I think this video make a good anti-tanking case.

Watch on YouTube

The underlying problem is AKME is so bad there are no good options.

I don't think the case for tanking in the modern NBA is particularly strong, but the case around being capped out and trying to retool around old veterans on the decline sure as hell isn't any stronger. He spends like 30 seconds on what he would do instead and it's basically a list of vague things you can't define, impossible things that can't be done, and is equally unlikely to work.

I think in the end, if you think of all things as having a value over a period of time, we should trade any value in the next two years for value that will hit more in 3+ years. We aren't going to compete in the next two years either way. That might involve losing a lot more games in the next two years and getting better picks, but the goal is actually to maximize the value of the roster in seasons 3+ which means if you make the roster so bad, you probably aren't doing that either.

It's tough to say what that looks like in reality without being able to work the phones, but some thoughts:
DeMar: Probably has good value for 2 years and no value afterwards. Look to S&T him for anything you can get.

Coby/Ayo: May have a lot of short term value due to the cheap 2 years left on each of their deals. If a team is willing to overpay in long term assets because of the really strong play vs cost component while trying to dodge the 2nd apron and compete for a title, you might find some intriguing value here in trade, or you might find nothing. Only trade if the offer is really good, but definitely look.

Caruso: Likely has really high 1 year value, dicey after that. Look to trade him.

Zach: Think he probably has little value now coming off injury and a poor year, but his value could increase with a hot start and years coming off his contract. Evaluate the market, move him only if you can get something.

Vuc: If you can ever get something, move him, otherwise eat his contract, don't pay to get him off the roster

Terry/Philips/Pat: Really just guys you gamble on if you like them. Unknown current/future value

That said, go back to the first sentence, we screwed this up so badly by delaying all the obvious pivots that they can no longer be made. We can call it the AKME trap, where you double down on your moves for so long that there are no longer viable alternatives to doubling down again.

[Chi town]

Reading so many posts it truly does show just how bad AKME have been.

Seems like Coby and Ayo are the only thing they have gotten right.

My biggest question is Billy. How involved has he been in all of these decisions? All we heard about was Vuc was Billy’s guy to run his offense as the hub and Vuc has been by far the worst move.

It also feels like Billy doesn’t want to take a step back to pivot. Feels like he is doubling down with DDR and resigning him.

We could have such a fun team to watch next season if we had a GM that could just make the obvious moves. I bet we have 25 posters on here that would have been much better decisions than AK.

[MGB8]

OKC and Minnesota’s deep playoff teams are the products of tanking. Even Boston’s, sort of, and ditto Dallas.

San Antonio has a future because of an extended tank that finally paid off in Wemby, including sending Derrick White to Boston. Orlando, too.

Yes, there are big market player-draw teams that don’t ever need to tank, but have doubts that tanking is worse than any other path open to the Bulls. I5 is just whether tank by choice or due to age and poor roster construction.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

I've thought this since Harden's Houston days but watching the Bulls the past 3 years and watching the Mavs this year, it's never been more obvious how valueable vertical spacing and rim protection is. Having a big (preferably mobile) guy available for lobs and cleaning the glass is all I dream about after watching the polar opposite for an extended period of time. Vuc can thrive as primary bench scorer.

At 11 I would take Missi with no hesitation. I think Lavine would look a lot better with a lob option on his paint penetrations. Demar obviously would fare even better than Zach but I think he's got a foot out the door. Coby and Ayo would flourish as well. Maybe even Pat idk. The point is there would be a new passing option that we dont currently have. Defensively the upgrade speaks for itself.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=Swish

[Stratmaster]

Reading so many posts it truly does show just how bad AKME have been.

Seems like Coby and Ayo are the only thing they have gotten right.

My biggest question is Billy. How involved has he been in all of these decisions? All we heard about was Vuc was Billy’s guy to run his offense as the hub and Vuc has been by far the worst move.

It also feels like Billy doesn’t want to take a step back to pivot. Feels like he is doubling down with DDR and resigning him.

We could have such a fun team to watch next season if we had a GM that could just make the obvious moves. I bet we have 25 posters on here that would have been much better decisions than AK.

Billy is more of the issue than some people want to believe. Coby and Ayo are great examples. First Coby looked like he had great promise, and was starting on a weak team. He played horribly the end of that season, and the next season Ayo was the starting PG. Ayo proved to be one of the worst starting PG's in the league, and the next season Coby is back as the starter. People are talking "MIP" because of a series of hot games. But, by the end of the season Ayo is outplaying him again.

It has been 3 seasons, and Billy still hasn't figured out what role either of them should play.

[sco]

Reading so many posts it truly does show just how bad AKME have been.

Seems like Coby and Ayo are the only thing they have gotten right.

My biggest question is Billy. How involved has he been in all of these decisions? All we heard about was Vuc was Billy’s guy to run his offense as the hub and Vuc has been by far the worst move.

It also feels like Billy doesn’t want to take a step back to pivot. Feels like he is doubling down with DDR and resigning him.

We could have such a fun team to watch next season if we had a GM that could just make the obvious moves. I bet we have 25 posters on here that would have been much better decisions than AK.

Billy is more of the issue than some people want to believe. Coby and Ayo are great examples. First Coby looked like he had great promise, and was starting on a weak team. He played horribly the end of that season, and the next season Ayo was the starting PG. Ayo proved to be one of the worst starting PG's in the league, and the next season Coby is back as the starter. People are talking "MIP" because of a series of hot games. But, by the end of the season Ayo is outplaying him again.

It has been 3 seasons, and Billy still hasn't figured out what role either of them should play.

I don't think the role issue (which I agree with your point) is on Billy as much as it is on Ayo and Coby, neither of whom have shown the consistency and completeness to take a firm grip on either spot. Personally, I think both guys are better suited to be SG.

[dougthonus]

Seems like Coby and Ayo are the only thing they have gotten right.

Really, Ayo was the only thing they got right. Coby was from the last regime, and they tried to trade him multiple times and tried to take away his role at the start of the 22/23 season in favor of Ayo, but Coby ended up playing well enough they decided to keep him, but they definitely didn't believe in him to any extent.

We could have such a fun team to watch next season if we had a GM that could just make the obvious moves. I bet we have 25 posters on here that would have been much better decisions than AK.

I don't think there are any obvious moves to make anymore to be honest, not that would make this team super fun to watch. At least I sure don't know what they are. There are certainly things I'd want to do conceptually with the roster, but they're backed into so many different corners at once that the conceptual things are probably not real practical.

[sco]

Here's a new plan from me:

Keep Zach, sign Demar for 2 years on an overpay, extend Caruso for 3 years. Resign Pat for <$20/yr. Resign Drummond and Green.

I'd try to see if we could trade either Coby or Ayo, Por 1st and Vuc for a better C. I'd add #11, if it was a very good C. I like the idea of trying for Robinson or Hartenstein from NY or Poeltl from TOR.

Let Caruso start at PG, hope that Ball can back him up.

Roll with:

Caruso, Ball/Ayo or Coby (whichever we keep)
Zach, Ayo or Coby (whichever we keep)
Demar, Pat, Terry
Pat, Green, Phillips
New C, Drummond

I think that's probably the best product we could put on the court this season (look AK isn't rebuilding and this let's him keep his word about a change to the big 3). I also think that Zach and Demar could work well if we take Vuc out of the equation and replace him with a capable C. Caruso and Pat both made offensive strides enough to hurt teams who double off them. The season's success will hinge on a couple of young guys taking steps forward and guys staying healthy, but it's all possible.

[sco]

Here's a new plan from me:

Keep Zach, sign Demar for 2 years on an overpay, extend Caruso for 3 years. Resign Pat for <$20/yr. Resign Drummond and Green.

I'd try to see if we could trade either Coby or Ayo, Por 1st and Vuc for a better C. I'd add #11, if it was a very good C. I like the idea of trying for Robinson or Hartenstein from NY or Poeltl from TOR.

Let Caruso start at PG, hope that Ball can back him up.

Roll with:

Caruso, Ball/Ayo or Coby (whichever we keep)
Zach, Ayo or Coby (whichever we keep)
Demar, Pat, Terry
Pat, Green, Phillips
New C, Drummond

I think that's probably the best product we could put on the court this season (look AK isn't rebuilding and this let's him keep his word about a change to the big 3). I also think that Zach and Demar could work well if we take Vuc out of the equation and replace him with a capable C. Caruso and Pat both made offensive strides enough to hurt teams who double off them. The season's success will hinge on a couple of young guys taking steps forward and guys staying healthy, but it's all possible.

[Stratmaster]

Reading so many posts it truly does show just how bad AKME have been.

Seems like Coby and Ayo are the only thing they have gotten right.

My biggest question is Billy. How involved has he been in all of these decisions? All we heard about was Vuc was Billy’s guy to run his offense as the hub and Vuc has been by far the worst move.

It also feels like Billy doesn’t want to take a step back to pivot. Feels like he is doubling down with DDR and resigning him.

We could have such a fun team to watch next season if we had a GM that could just make the obvious moves. I bet we have 25 posters on here that would have been much better decisions than AK.

Billy is more of the issue than some people want to believe. Coby and Ayo are great examples. First Coby looked like he had great promise, and was starting on a weak team. He played horribly the end of that season, and the next season Ayo was the starting PG. Ayo proved to be one of the worst starting PG's in the league, and the next season Coby is back as the starter. People are talking "MIP" because of a series of hot games. But, by the end of the season Ayo is outplaying him again.

It has been 3 seasons, and Billy still hasn't figured out what role either of them should play.

I don't think the role issue (which I agree with your point) is on Billy as much as it is on Ayo and Coby, neither of whom have shown the consistency and completeness to take a firm grip on either spot. Personally, I think both guys are better suited to be SG.

I think it is pretty clear Coby is a 6th man combo Guard, and that Ayo is better in the role of 3 and D PG next to a scorer (granted a very weak one in a starting role); which is the situation the Bulls had to start the season. But that is just me

[sco]

Billy is more of the issue than some people want to believe. Coby and Ayo are great examples. First Coby looked like he had great promise, and was starting on a weak team. He played horribly the end of that season, and the next season Ayo was the starting PG. Ayo proved to be one of the worst starting PG's in the league, and the next season Coby is back as the starter. People are talking "MIP" because of a series of hot games. But, by the end of the season Ayo is outplaying him again.

It has been 3 seasons, and Billy still hasn't figured out what role either of them should play.

I don't think the role issue (which I agree with your point) is on Billy as much as it is on Ayo and Coby, neither of whom have shown the consistency and completeness to take a firm grip on either spot. Personally, I think both guys are better suited to be SG.

I think it is pretty clear Coby is a 6th man combo Guard, and that Ayo is better in the role of 3 and D PG next to a scorer (granted a very weak one in a starting role); which is the situation the Bulls had to start the season. But that is just me

You may be right. I don't see Ayo being enough of a playmaker to be a good PG. Honestly, I wonder if we let Demar go, if we could let Ayo take the starting SF spot.

[ChettheJet]

I'm not far from where I've always been.

Either S&T DeRozan or just let him go to free up some space. Giving him 3 years at too much money is anchoring just out of the play in for 3 more years. He's been here for 3 losing seasons with a lot of injuries to players who could have made a difference. But if you imagine those seasons with healthy Zach, Lonzo and Patrick then you've got to give them minutes and shots and take them away from Demar and Nikola. Then take minutes from Ayo and AC. Healthy or not only 48 minutes at each position so identify who would sit if everybody comes back.

I trade Caruso because he's expiring and probably still nursing injuries from last season. He still doesn't score enough to start, he shoots a good 3pt % because he's always wide open because nobody guards him. Get what you can for him.

I can wish MEM might see a couple of years with Vucevic taking their 5 spot, he'll score if Ja gets him the ball, he won't look as bad on defense with JJJ at the 4 and Bane on the floor instead of any Bulls' guards at the PF and DeRozan or Lavine on the wing.

I'd try to resign Drummond and if Jarrett Allen is out of reach I would actually settle for 2 maybe even 3 of Mo Bamba, Robert Williams III, Jaxson Hayes, Jalen Smith, Issaiah Jackson, Precious Achiewa, Mo Wagner, Jaylin Williams,to come off the bench, learn some professionalism and work ethic from Andre and see if they can develop. Sonogo is in the mix if they have 3 on the bench.

I am willing to wait on a decent deal for Lavne, no point to giving him away for a couple of bad shorter contracts to sit and watch expire. I don't buy that other teams need to see him play 20 games before they would trade for him. He could play 4 or 44 games then get injured so waiting isn't worth anything.

I want to start Coby, Ayo, Patrick and a real PF and maybe Drummond. I don't mind a bench built up behind Craig, Phillips, Bitim and Javonte Green actually playing guard. Maybe some of those backup centers can play the 4 at times.

That #11 pick isn't going to walk in and play. The guy there at #11 will probably be on some mocks at #6 and others at #20 nobody is going to give up much to get it and moving up isn't an option.

I'm ready to include that PORT pick in a deal, they look like lottery residents forever.

Players I'd like to see come somehow, some realistic some I don't know how
Miles Bridges
Deni Avidja
Josh Giddey
Robert Williams III
Denare Ayton
John Collins
a 2025 pick

[burlydee]

Reading so many posts it truly does show just how bad AKME have been.

Seems like Coby and Ayo are the only thing they have gotten right.

My biggest question is Billy. How involved has he been in all of these decisions? All we heard about was Vuc was Billy’s guy to run his offense as the hub and Vuc has been by far the worst move.

It also feels like Billy doesn’t want to take a step back to pivot. Feels like he is doubling down with DDR and resigning him.

We could have such a fun team to watch next season if we had a GM that could just make the obvious moves. I bet we have 25 posters on here that would have been much better decisions than AK.

Billy is more of the issue than some people want to believe. Coby and Ayo are great examples. First Coby looked like he had great promise, and was starting on a weak team. He played horribly the end of that season, and the next season Ayo was the starting PG. Ayo proved to be one of the worst starting PG's in the league, and the next season Coby is back as the starter. People are talking "MIP" because of a series of hot games. But, by the end of the season Ayo is outplaying him again.

It has been 3 seasons, and Billy still hasn't figured out what role either of them should play.

Billy developed both guys. Ayo in particular.

[burlydee]

Reading so many posts it truly does show just how bad AKME have been.

Seems like Coby and Ayo are the only thing they have gotten right.

My biggest question is Billy. How involved has he been in all of these decisions? All we heard about was Vuc was Billy’s guy to run his offense as the hub and Vuc has been by far the worst move.

It also feels like Billy doesn’t want to take a step back to pivot. Feels like he is doubling down with DDR and resigning him.

We could have such a fun team to watch next season if we had a GM that could just make the obvious moves. I bet we have 25 posters on here that would have been much better decisions than AK.

Billy is more of the issue than some people want to believe. Coby and Ayo are great examples. First Coby looked like he had great promise, and was starting on a weak team. He played horribly the end of that season, and the next season Ayo was the starting PG. Ayo proved to be one of the worst starting PG's in the league, and the next season Coby is back as the starter. People are talking "MIP" because of a series of hot games. But, by the end of the season Ayo is outplaying him again.

It has been 3 seasons, and Billy still hasn't figured out what role either of them should play.

I don't think the role issue (which I agree with your point) is on Billy as much as it is on Ayo and Coby, neither of whom have shown the consistency and completeness to take a firm grip on either spot. Personally, I think both guys are better suited to be SG.

I think Ayo if he keeps developing can be a point guard. I'm not sure what Coby is. They should start together next season in my opinion.

[sco]

Billy is more of the issue than some people want to believe. Coby and Ayo are great examples. First Coby looked like he had great promise, and was starting on a weak team. He played horribly the end of that season, and the next season Ayo was the starting PG. Ayo proved to be one of the worst starting PG's in the league, and the next season Coby is back as the starter. People are talking "MIP" because of a series of hot games. But, by the end of the season Ayo is outplaying him again.

It has been 3 seasons, and Billy still hasn't figured out what role either of them should play.

I don't think the role issue (which I agree with your point) is on Billy as much as it is on Ayo and Coby, neither of whom have shown the consistency and completeness to take a firm grip on either spot. Personally, I think both guys are better suited to be SG.

I think Ayo if he keeps developing can be a point guard. I'm not sure what Coby is. They should start together next season in my opinion.

I just don't see Ayo at the PG position because he lacks the explosiveness, size or craftiness to penetrate effectively in the halfcourt. Also he lacks the vision to effectively playmake. He is a competent 2nd ball handler, and his 3 main strengths that he can further develop to become even better are a decent 3 ball, decent defense, and the ability to sprint end-to-end as a one-man fast break.

[Red8911]

Billy is more of the issue than some people want to believe. Coby and Ayo are great examples. First Coby looked like he had great promise, and was starting on a weak team. He played horribly the end of that season, and the next season Ayo was the starting PG. Ayo proved to be one of the worst starting PG's in the league, and the next season Coby is back as the starter. People are talking "MIP" because of a series of hot games. But, by the end of the season Ayo is outplaying him again.

It has been 3 seasons, and Billy still hasn't figured out what role either of them should play.

I don't think the role issue (which I agree with your point) is on Billy as much as it is on Ayo and Coby, neither of whom have shown the consistency and completeness to take a firm grip on either spot. Personally, I think both guys are better suited to be SG.

I think Ayo if he keeps developing can be a point guard. I'm not sure what Coby is. They should start together next season in my opinion.

Most PGs in the league are now similar style to Ayo or Coby. Not many”traditional” PGs anymore. Lonzo is but he’s toast.