Potential Zach Trade Partners? 24/25 Edition

[sco]

If AK is selling low (ugh), what about Zach to Detroit for Stewart & Grimes? I like both guys. I think Grimes is way better than he showed last year, and maybe we'd be buying low there. He would also "allow us" to replace Caruso in the 3-D sorta role (and get some assets for him in trade). If we're lucky, maybe we could get DET to throw in their '28 1st.

[League Circles]

Am I the only one who's so sick of this situation that I'd almost rather see it resolved to our detriment this summer than see it linger into next season?

I'm definitely not in the "must-trade" camp as far as Zach goes, but if we keep him, I want it to be with the idea that we'll try to make it work indefinitely, not just for the purpose of trying to briefly (and unrealistically?) rehab his trade value by injecting him into the lineup next year if it's only to "showcase" him.

I want him to be gone before FA or for us to at least tentatively plan on him being here indefinitely. The limbo has gone on long enough.

[DuckIII]

Am I the only one who's so sick of this situation that I'd almost rather see it resolved to our detriment this summer than see it linger into next season?

I'm definitely not in the "must-trade" camp as far as Zach goes, but if we keep him, I want it to be with the idea that we'll try to make it work indefinitely, not just for the purpose of trying to briefly (and unrealistically?) rehab his trade value by injecting him into the lineup next year if it's only to "showcase" him.

I want him to be gone before FA or for us to at least tentatively plan on him being here indefinitely. The limbo has gone on long enough.

Here’s where I am: if you can’t get any positive value assets for Zach you try to rehabilitate him. But if you get anything of reasonable positive value that also frees up salary, it’s time to just move on and accept that AK fubar’d it yet again.

It’s worth it for the young players to get more ownership of this team without looking over their shoulders and to begin what will hopefully lead to a full rebuild if DDR looks to contend (which I think is still a strong possibility).

[drosestruts]

Am I the only one who's so sick of this situation that I'd almost rather see it resolved to our detriment this summer than see it linger into next season?

I'm definitely not in the "must-trade" camp as far as Zach goes, but if we keep him, I want it to be with the idea that we'll try to make it work indefinitely, not just for the purpose of trying to briefly (and unrealistically?) rehab his trade value by injecting him into the lineup next year if it's only to "showcase" him.

I want him to be gone before FA or for us to at least tentatively plan on him being here indefinitely. The limbo has gone on long enough.

This is similar to where I'm at.

My biggest stance is that Zach and DeMar simply don't work together and we have to move forward with only one of them (or none of them) but we can't move forward with both.

I think it's the front office's preference for that one player to be DeRozan.

I think you try and trade Zach on draft night, if that doesn't work or materialize, I think we have to decide to then make our draft and free agent/trade moves around the idea of this team being one with Zach (which means no DeMar).

I hate the idea of rehabilitating his value in a lineup/roster that we know doesn't work. Which of course means we just put out a roster that doesn't work, and the value isn't rehabilitated because all we're able to showcase is a lineup that doesn't work and performs poorly.

[sco]

Am I the only one who's so sick of this situation that I'd almost rather see it resolved to our detriment this summer than see it linger into next season?

I'm definitely not in the "must-trade" camp as far as Zach goes, but if we keep him, I want it to be with the idea that we'll try to make it work indefinitely, not just for the purpose of trying to briefly (and unrealistically?) rehab his trade value by injecting him into the lineup next year if it's only to "showcase" him.

I want him to be gone before FA or for us to at least tentatively plan on him being here indefinitely. The limbo has gone on long enough.

Here’s where I am: if you can’t get any positive value assets for Zach you try to rehabilitate him. But if you get anything of reasonable positive value that also frees up salary, it’s time to just move on and accept that AK fubar’d it yet again.

It’s worth it for the young players to get more ownership of this team without looking over their shoulders and to begin what will hopefully lead to a full rebuild if DDR looks to contend (which I think is still a strong possibility).

I'm with you. I could tolerate everyone back next season if the season is used productively to best position us for the following season. Develop guys, up guys trade value, etc.

[Muzbar]

Am I the only one who's so sick of this situation that I'd almost rather see it resolved to our detriment this summer than see it linger into next season?

I'm definitely not in the "must-trade" camp as far as Zach goes, but if we keep him, I want it to be with the idea that we'll try to make it work indefinitely, not just for the purpose of trying to briefly (and unrealistically?) rehab his trade value by injecting him into the lineup next year if it's only to "showcase" him.

I want him to be gone before FA or for us to at least tentatively plan on him being here indefinitely. The limbo has gone on long enough.

Nah, I'm sick of it also.

The problem is his value is going to be low as he's coming off a season where he only played 25 games and lots of teams don't believe he's worth his contract number. Everyone says "bring him back and let him rehab his value", but what if he gets injured again, then what? Suck it up and just deal with 43-50m stuck on the roster sitting on the bench?

I like Zach, he's a good scorer, but I think it's time to rip off the band-aid, trade him for the best value you can possibly find (even if it isn't absolutely amazing) and start a retool/rebuild.

This team isn't going anywhere as currently constructed, with or without Zach, so why keep Zach?

[Chi town]

Can Zach up his trade value on a team that doesn’t win?

It’s him or DDR who stays. Can’t keep both.

[boozapalooza]

Am I the only one who's so sick of this situation that I'd almost rather see it resolved to our detriment this summer than see it linger into next season?

I'm definitely not in the "must-trade" camp as far as Zach goes, but if we keep him, I want it to be with the idea that we'll try to make it work indefinitely, not just for the purpose of trying to briefly (and unrealistically?) rehab his trade value by injecting him into the lineup next year if it's only to "showcase" him.

I want him to be gone before FA or for us to at least tentatively plan on him being here indefinitely. The limbo has gone on long enough.

Maybe I’m a fool but I really think Zach is getting moved this summer. Both sides know the situation is untenable and I think the Bulls (especially Reinsdorf) want to dump his salary if possible. Once the FA moves start being made, teams that miss out will get desperate, and someone will be interested in taking on Lavine. I think Philly, GS, and LA are all realistic options for him. Especially with GS if Klay leaves,

CP3, GP II, and 2025 1st for Zach works in the trade machine.

[Clint Eastwood]

If the bulls dump lavine at this point for salary relief, i will renounce my fandom of 50 years

[Dan Z]

If the bulls dump lavine at this point for salary relief, i will renounce my fandom of 50 years

What kind of trade are you expecting (hoping?) for when it comes to Zach?

[DASMACKDOWN]

Quick rant.

What I get mad about the most is people around NBA circles keep acting like Zach Lavine is some trash player who is getting overpaid.

I get highly irritated when I see and hear that. 

Perception just isn't reality.

Take Coby White. Coby just came off his best season as a pro. Everyone all around the league singing his praises. Yet Coby this year, was about equal to a very down year Zach Lavine.

So in a down year, where he's been fighting injuries, where everyone was saying how bad or how trash he was, Still was arguably better than Coby White. That's why I get irritated when people act like Zach is a bad basketball player that doesnt deserve his contract. He does.

I'm not even fighting to keep Zach around. I think that ship has sailed and everyone just wants to move on. But I will probably bet money that Zach will be next in line of former Bulls players that "miraculously" look amazing on another team.

[MalagaBulls]

Quick rant.

What I get mad about the most is people around NBA circles keep acting like Zach Lavine is some trash player who is getting overpaid.

I get highly irritated when I see and hear that. 

Perception just isn't reality.

Take Coby White. Coby just came off his best season as a pro. Everyone all around the league singing his praises. Yet Coby this year, was about equal to a very down year Zach Lavine.

So in a down year, where he's been fighting injuries, where everyone was saying how bad or how trash he was, Still was arguably better than Coby White. That's why I get irritated when people act like Zach is a bad basketball player that doesnt deserve his contract. He does.

I'm not even fighting to keep Zach around. I think that ship has sailed and everyone just wants to move on. But I will probably bet money that Zach will be next in line of former Bulls players that "miraculously" look amazing on another team.

Don't really chime in much anymore but this is the part that keeps getting lost in this annual series of rants. We can't develop players or a roster and then they move on to have very good to great careers, that is so AKME and there is no accountability.

[Dan Z]

Quick rant.

What I get mad about the most is people around NBA circles keep acting like Zach Lavine is some trash player who is getting overpaid.

I get highly irritated when I see and hear that. 

Perception just isn't reality.

Take Coby White. Coby just came off his best season as a pro. Everyone all around the league singing his praises. Yet Coby this year, was about equal to a very down year Zach Lavine.

So in a down year, where he's been fighting injuries, where everyone was saying how bad or how trash he was, Still was arguably better than Coby White. That's why I get irritated when people act like Zach is a bad basketball player that doesnt deserve his contract. He does.

I'm not even fighting to keep Zach around. I think that ship has sailed and everyone just wants to move on. But I will probably bet money that Zach will be next in line of former Bulls players that "miraculously" look amazing on another team.

Coby White is younger, a smarter player, healthier and on a better contract. He may never be "peak Zach", but I bet he'll fit in better with many teams.

However, I agree with you that Zach isn't as bad as many people say he is. After all he's a two time all-star. The thing I have issue with is people who want to trade him for negative players. His contract is high when you consider the issues with Zach, but I think he can help a few teams.

There was a trade on the trade board that was something like Bertans, Martin and Grant Williams for Zach. Basically a salary dump, but the Bulls would have Williams for three more years. My two cents is that I wouldn't do a trade like that. The Hornets get a player who will help them and the Bulls end up with someone who I think is a negative (Williams).

At the very least get neutral value and a small asset. What kind of deal do you think the Bulls should do that involves Zach?

[Clint Eastwood]

If the bulls dump lavine at this point for salary relief, i will renounce my fandom of 50 years

What kind of trade are you expecting (hoping?) for when it comes to Zach?

A trade that nets the bulls value for a player who averages 25/5/5. Im fine taking on bad salary to match as long as we also receive real assets/picks. None of this late first and horrible contracts.

So like if we have to take on chris paul, for example, no chance unless we are also getting Kuminga.

Or give me igles, mo wagner add in isaac.

Or brooks, adams with Eason attached.

Or julius randle

Or vanderbilt, rui, with reaves attached. We can expand deal to include vuc even.

[sco]

If the bulls dump lavine at this point for salary relief, i will renounce my fandom of 50 years

What kind of trade are you expecting (hoping?) for when it comes to Zach?

A trade that nets the bulls value for a player who averages 25/5/5. Im fine taking on bad salary to match as long as we also receive real assets/picks. None of this late first and horrible contracts.

So like if we have to take on chris paul, for example, no chance unless we are also getting Kuminga.

Or give me igles, mo wagner add in isaac.

Or brooks, adams with Eason attached.

Or julius randle

Or vanderbilt, rui, with reaves attached. We can expand deal to include vuc even.

IMO, that's the rub. I just don't think that level of return, modest as it may seem, is possible for a version of Zach that ended a bad season with an injury and hasn't shown a return to form. Any despiration trade done in the offseason is going to yield salary relief and no players or picks with even starter potential.

[Dan Z]

What kind of trade are you expecting (hoping?) for when it comes to Zach?

A trade that nets the bulls value for a player who averages 25/5/5. Im fine taking on bad salary to match as long as we also receive real assets/picks. None of this late first and horrible contracts.

So like if we have to take on chris paul, for example, no chance unless we are also getting Kuminga.

Or give me igles, mo wagner add in isaac.

Or brooks, adams with Eason attached.

Or julius randle

Or vanderbilt, rui, with reaves attached. We can expand deal to include vuc even.

IMO, that's the rub. I just don't think that level of return, modest as it may seem, is possible for a version of Zach that ended a bad season with an injury and hasn't shown a return to form. Any despiration trade done in the offseason is going to yield salary relief and no players or picks with even starter potential.

His injury, and injury history, is a concern, but it seemed like if he choose to do so he would've been able to continue playing last year instead of getting surgery...? Plus, he should be healthy to start next season.

You don't think the Bulls could get a protected first or even 2nd round picks for him? If the offers are bad (negative contracts back...no assets/picks) then the Bulls should just keep him until they get something decent back. Also, it's possible that they might have to wait until free agency (because some teams might not get the player they want and turn to Zach as plan B) or even the season so he can prove that he's healthy and playing at a top level again.

[jnrjr79]

Quick rant.

What I get mad about the most is people around NBA circles keep acting like Zach Lavine is some trash player who is getting overpaid.

I get highly irritated when I see and hear that. 

Perception just isn't reality.

Take Coby White. Coby just came off his best season as a pro. Everyone all around the league singing his praises. Yet Coby this year, was about equal to a very down year Zach Lavine.

So in a down year, where he's been fighting injuries, where everyone was saying how bad or how trash he was, Still was arguably better than Coby White. That's why I get irritated when people act like Zach is a bad basketball player that doesnt deserve his contract. He does.

I'm not even fighting to keep Zach around. I think that ship has sailed and everyone just wants to move on. But I will probably bet money that Zach will be next in line of former Bulls players that "miraculously" look amazing on another team.

This is what happens when one guy is a young improving player and the other is in his prime and making the max.

[Jcool0]

Quick rant.

What I get mad about the most is people around NBA circles keep acting like Zach Lavine is some trash player who is getting overpaid.

I get highly irritated when I see and hear that. 

Perception just isn't reality.

Take Coby White. Coby just came off his best season as a pro. Everyone all around the league singing his praises. Yet Coby this year, was about equal to a very down year Zach Lavine.

So in a down year, where he's been fighting injuries, where everyone was saying how bad or how trash he was, Still was arguably better than Coby White. That's why I get irritated when people act like Zach is a bad basketball player that doesnt deserve his contract. He does.

I'm not even fighting to keep Zach around. I think that ship has sailed and everyone just wants to move on. But I will probably bet money that Zach will be next in line of former Bulls players that "miraculously" look amazing on another team.

This is what happens when one guy is a young improving player and the other is in his prime and making the max.

Coby still probably maxes out as a 4th option on a contending team.

[drosestruts]

I agree with DASMACKDOWN

There's so many common Zach misconceptions, even in this thread amongst Bulls fans.

I see comments about Zach's injury history. In the 5 years post ACL - pre-bone fragment surgery Zach played in 85% of games. This includes two missed stints due to Covid and some end of season tanking by the Bulls.

With covid and tanking sittings out - I think it's safe to say Zach played in 90% of available games over those 5 seasons, and yet - he is labeled as injury prone.

Then there's the misconception, that is not limited to Zach, that at 29 years old he's some player either plateuing or on the decline and someone like Coby White will perennially be on the rise. I don't know where this comes from. We all watched DeMar DeRozan just have 3 of the best seasons of his career at ages 32-33-34 and have apparently learned nothing from that.

If you follow Zach you know is he and always has been an extremely hard worker.

Surgeries to remove bone fragments are very common in the NBA yet people act like for Zach it's so death sentence. Anunoby had bone fragments removed from his elbow, is coming off a season where he scored 15 points per game on 59% TS%, and is likely to sign a max contract with nobody batting an eye at it.

Zach's last three healthy seasons he scored 24+ points per game on +60% TS%

Everyone here knows Zach is a great scorer that is average ta best on defense. How does the front office support him? They acquire DeMar (who I like in a vacuum) and Nikola Vucevic (who I can't stand) - great team building.

Zach is, and has been, a very very talented basketball player who earned his max contract. If we're giving him away for free we're giving away one of the most talented high volume high efficiency scoring guard in the entire NBA.

And it's a shame because the formula for success is there, even this past season in a down year:

Zach w/ White, Williams, Craig and Vuc: +8.6 per 100 possessions
Zach w/ Ayo, White, Williams and Vuc: +4.4 per 100 possesions

Last year

Zach w/ Beverley, White, Williams, Vucevic: +25.2
Zach w/ Beverley, Caruso, DeRozan, Vucevic: +13.4
Zach w/ Caruso, DeRozan, Williams, Vucevic: +10.3

With how much Vuc sucks imagine a decent center with these lineups.

Zach's contract doesn't prevent one from building a good team. Zach's contract + Vuc's contract + Ball's contract + DeRozan contract (who again I like but he and Zach just don't fit together) makes it hard to build a team when one of those players sucks, one hasn't played in 2.5 years, and the other is just a poor on court match with LaVine.

Control what you can control - I do not know why we re-sign Vucevic.

Zach is here and is under contract.

DeRozan's contract is currently over. Ball's contract ends in a year.

Live in reality.

[jnrjr79]

Quick rant.

What I get mad about the most is people around NBA circles keep acting like Zach Lavine is some trash player who is getting overpaid.

I get highly irritated when I see and hear that. 

Perception just isn't reality.

Take Coby White. Coby just came off his best season as a pro. Everyone all around the league singing his praises. Yet Coby this year, was about equal to a very down year Zach Lavine.

So in a down year, where he's been fighting injuries, where everyone was saying how bad or how trash he was, Still was arguably better than Coby White. That's why I get irritated when people act like Zach is a bad basketball player that doesnt deserve his contract. He does.

I'm not even fighting to keep Zach around. I think that ship has sailed and everyone just wants to move on. But I will probably bet money that Zach will be next in line of former Bulls players that "miraculously" look amazing on another team.

This is what happens when one guy is a young improving player and the other is in his prime and making the max.

Coby still probably maxes out as a 4th option on a contending team.

Sure, that's nothing to do with my post, but I agree. I'm just saying age and contract dictate a lot about player perception. Coby played above expectations and Zach has recently played below them (when he's played). If Zach were making $11M, people would think he was a great value. At the max, he's expected to be a #1 or #2 option on a contending team. He's a good player, but he's not that.