OT: Report: Cavaliers make offer to Tom Izzo

transplant · Post #441 » by **transplant** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:03 pm

DuckIII wrote:There are a small handful of coaches that can turn chicken **** into chicken salad (none that can make it chicken kiev).

Damn, that's just beautiful.

red222 · Post #442 » by **red222** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:53 pm

Lakers assistant coaches' tell Y! Sports their gut feeling is Jackson will return next season http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... vers061310

red222 · Post #443 » by **red222** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:01 pm

Izzo has told several Michigan reporters he's "still gathering" today. I'm told #Cavs have no timetable from him. http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider

kyrv · Post #444 » by **kyrv** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:09 pm

red222 wrote:
Izzo has told several Michigan reporters he's "still gathering" today. I'm told #Cavs have no timetable from him. http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider

As someone mentioned, I hope Wojo is preparing his hatchet job.

Duck - good points. Great college coaches are difference makers in college. They get overpaid in the NBA and come with the expectations of being difference makers. They mostly have not been difference makers. Are they taking the jobs just to be greedy, knowing they can't make a difference? Or do they try and fail? I don't know, might vary by person, we may have some of both.

red222 · Post #445 » by **red222** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:15 pm

If Izzo says no, my feel is Bryron Scott waits for Lakers & Clippers jobs to be settled before considering #Cavs. http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider

red222 · Post #446 » by **red222** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:36 pm

Y! Sources: Izzo uneasy about how the Cleveland organization's current relationship stands with LeBron James. http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... cavs061310

-Illmatic- · Post #447 » by **-Illmatic-** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:14 pm

red222 wrote:
Y! Sources: Izzo uneasy about how the Cleveland organization's current relationship stands with LeBron James. http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... cavs061310

singal3 · Post #448 » by **singal3** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:15 pm

This whole Izzo mess has given some good insight into LBJ.

kyrv · Post #449 » by **kyrv** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:15 pm

-Illmatic- wrote:
red222 wrote:
Y! Sources: Izzo uneasy about how the Cleveland organization's current relationship stands with LeBron James. http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... cavs061310

Post #450 » by **dougthonus** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:33 pm

DuckIII wrote:Name a college coach that didn't take a **** job on a rebuilding team in the last 20 years. Its about the talent far more than the coaching. I can also make a long list of NBA coaches failing in the NBA in the last 20 years because they were saddled with hot garbage.

This argument - which sadly is emphasized by superficial media analysis as well - is strikingly akin to the "pfft, Garnett isn't a winner and can't close" arguments so popular a few years ago. Talent trumps. Give Izzo LeBron and a comparable roster, and it stays a 60 win team.

I think there's more to the argument than that.

I don't think being a college coach makes you a bad coach, but Sam Smith raises great points about why college coaches struggle.

1) They don't have the control or power that they had in college. It's a player's league rather than a coaches league. They may not get the buy in that is virtually automatic in college because the players have no other choice. They have to cope with players making huge money who don't care and they need to motivate guys in an entirely different way without the hammer of screwing over hte guy's entire life at their disposal.

2) They don't know the NBA, not like NBA people do anyway, and probably not even as much as a lot of fans as they're likely too buys coaching college to watch much of it. They don't know the players, the tendencies, the schemes teams use, and all the details that a life long NBA guy does. Those things hurt them immediately when trying to get their own players to buy in.

3) The game is simply played differently. The 3 point line is farther back, the shot clock is far shorter, the mid range game plays a bigger factor, etc..

Can a guy have all the skills to coach well at both the college and NBA level? Absolutely. I don't think the skillsets are mutually exclusive in any way, but I think it's a very difficult adjustment for a college coach to come into the NBA, more difficult than an assistant, and I think a guy is far more likely to underachieve with the talent he has in his first stop.

I mean the only successful college -> NBA coach I've ever heard anyone mention is Larry Brown, and Brown transitioned at a point where many of the differences weren't as dramatic as they are right now.

red222 · Post #451 » by **red222** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:54 pm

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entr ... 4/22541823

red222 · Post #452 » by **red222** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:39 pm

High-level source says PD report that LeBron prefers a coach who played in NBA isn't accurate.

LeBron is known to highly respect Tom Izzo. That said, no sign LeBron plans to commit to anything before July 1
http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider

davhern · Post #453 » by **davhern** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:51 pm

red222 wrote:
High-level source says PD report that LeBron prefers a coach who played in NBA isn't accurate.

LeBron is known to highly respect Tom Izzo. That said, no sign LeBron plans to commit to anything before July 1
http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider

Trying to figure out if I consider this to be positive or negative... I never really thought the having played in the NBA thing was legitimate. We knew he respects Izzo... I don't know if that means he'd like to play for him in the NBA...

As for the last part, I suppose the no-news in terms of LBJ giving Cleveland feedback continues to be good news.

Post #454 » by **DuckIII** » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:58 pm

dougthonus wrote:I think there's more to the argument than that.

Obviously. But those types of issues also arise in the "there's a big difference in sliding down one chair and lots of assistants cant' handle it" argument as well.

Its the superficial assumption that college coaches can't translate that irritates me. "What has he done in the NBA?!?!?!?!?" Its ridiculous.

Bottom line, anyone becoming a first time NBA coach is going to have to sink or swim with these issues. And most coaches, regardless of NBA assistants or college head coaches, will fail with garbage rosters.

The reason there are very few "success stories" of college coaches moving to the NBA is because they simply didn't have the chops or because their teams suck, And that applies to all first time hires, regardless of background.

red222 · Post #455 » by **red222** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:00 am

davhern wrote:
red222 wrote:
High-level source says PD report that LeBron prefers a coach who played in NBA isn't accurate.

LeBron is known to highly respect Tom Izzo. That said, no sign LeBron plans to commit to anything before July 1
http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider

Trying to figure out if I consider this to be positive or negative... I never really thought the having played in the NBA thing was legitimate. We knew he respects Izzo... I don't know if that means he'd like to play for him in the NBA...

As for the last part, I suppose the no-news in terms of LBJ giving Cleveland feedback continues to be good news.

positive still no commitment from bron is the key

RyGuy24 · Post #456 » by **RyGuy24** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:50 am

Bucher was on ESPN 1000 earlier today and said while nothnig is official or anything, the chatter he's heard leads him to believe Izzo will stay.

RyGuy24 · Post #457 » by **RyGuy24** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:11 am

http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=12642529

davhern · Post #458 » by **davhern** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:22 am

RyGuy24 wrote:http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=12642529

What a simple solution... so what if LeBron is non-committal, as is like 99% likely to be the case?

Darius Miles Davis · Post #459 » by **Darius Miles Davis** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:27 am

davhern wrote:
RyGuy24 wrote:http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=12642529

What a simple solution... so what if LeBron is non-committal, as is like 99% likely to be the case?

...then I'm not sure if Cleveland is going to have a coach at the beginning of free agency.

kyrv · Post #460 » by **kyrv** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:27 am

DuckIII wrote:
dougthonus wrote:I think there's more to the argument than that.

Obviously. But those types of issues also arise in the "there's a big difference in sliding down one chair and lots of assistants cant' handle it" argument as well.

Its the superficial assumption that college coaches can't translate that irritates me. "What has he done in the NBA?!?!?!?!?" Its ridiculous.

Bottom line, anyone becoming a first time NBA coach is going to have to sink or swim with these issues. And most coaches, regardless of NBA assistants or college head coaches, will fail with garbage rosters.

The reason there are very few "success stories" of college coaches moving to the NBA is because they simply didn't have the chops or because their teams suck, And that applies to all first time hires, regardless of background.

They are paid large chunks of money to be difference makers, which they haven't been.

If their pay was that of normal first time NBA coaches, maybe their lack of success wouldn't bother as many people.