Zach Lavine: Offered 4/80 from Kings update p26 Bulls Matched

[The Box Office]

:clap:

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If this happens I'm done for awhile. Would be the low point of my fandom probably post Jordan. I think quite a few people around 25-40 would think the same thing.

Not me. It was when Derrick Rose tore his ACL in the 2012 playoffs. Right there at that moment, I knew Rose's MVP superstar potential was over and we had to get rid of him quickly. I didn't even go through the 7 stages of grief. I went straight to acceptance.

[Jahensle]

After a long pause, I would probably match.

The thing is I cant put my personal feelings concerning money in this case. Its the market. When you have 5 years 146 million going to Wiggans, the 4/80 to Zach looks like chicken feed.

I realize currently he has his flaws but I hope that now he has his security, he can play a team game. That he can work on his passing, his defense etc.

That fact that he is still a baby just 23 years old not 24 till next March, Id keep him.

Yeah, I agree. However, I will not be upset if we decide to not match.

[TheHrvReport]

Match, baby. 20 million with the cap going up is nothing, equivalent to an 11 million/year deal a few years ago. At this teams peak he will be the 3rd highest paid player which is accurate evaluation for someone with Lavine's potential. By the way, the guy who he's matched up with numbers-wise year by year is DeRozan who is being paid 26.5 mil/year.

[gf2020hotmail]

This is so depressing. I'll be so stunned if he becomes an all star.

[kulaz3000]

I hope the Bulls decline to match, Lavine is virtually the same player he was three years ago. He hasn't shown any significant margin of improvement and he will probably never defend his position at higher than a below average level. Paying him 80 million dollars will be exactly that, the Bulls will pay every cent of that contract because he will be impossible to move.

That's not entirely fair. He improved slightly each season until his third when he went down with an ACL injury. And as we've all experience first hand as Bulls fans, you're not going to come back from an ACL injury and expect improvement from the time you went down.

[madvillian]

After a long pause, I would probably match.

The thing is I cant put my personal feelings concerning money in this case. Its the market. When you have 5 years 146 million going to Wiggans, the 4/80 to Zach looks like chicken feed.

I realize currently he has his flaws but I hope that now he has his security, he can play a team game. That he can work on his passing, his defense etc.

That fact that he is still a baby just 23 years old not 24 till next March, Id keep him.

This type of logic makes no sense.

"Other teams are making decisions, so our bad decisions are then absolved"

Could be worse, we could be the Kings. Oh wait, we have a chance to match their stupidity. ****.

[fleet]

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[IrishBeatdown]

How is this bloated exactly? If the Bulls were looking to sign Lavine for $18 mil, what's the difference?

I had prepared a long response detailing exactly why it is a bloated contract offer that literally no one but Sacramento would offer, but I thing I came up with something more simple and succinct.

When dealing with NBA personnel moves, do the opposite of Vlade Divac. Every time.

Too bad. I was really looking forward to proving your asinine comment of this being a bloated deal wrong. Instead I'm left with a lame comment about Vlade Divac and how he's a terrible GM.

I'll bite, Zach Lavine is one of the very worst defenders in the league, both with the eye test, and using advanced statistics. This level of deficiency is going to relegate him to an off the bench scoring role sooner or later as a sparkplug type player, but he isn't even that.

So essentially you are committing 20 mil a year to a Jamal Crawford type player (Jamal is better, incidentally), while wildly hoping he will no longer be confused on defense during the next few years and becomes a plus player, which incidentally he has never been in his career. He's never contributed to winning anywhere he has been, but lets hope he suddenly wakes up with court vision and can rebound all of a sudden, too. His impact is basically shooting and a little creation off the dribble, where he finishes at the rim at pedestrian levels since the ACL tear.

I want to know what Zach Lavine does so well that hes consistently done his whole career besides provide 15-18 ppg scoring at a bit above league average efficiency and little to nothing else? So pay him 20 mil a year and hope he remembers how to shoot again next year? What are we paying for at the end of the day? A guy who tore his ACL to not only fully recover athletically, but also in the process refashion himself into an overall productive player? Sounds like riverboat gambling to me.

[TheGOATRises007]

Match, baby. 20 million with the cap going up is nothing, equivalent to an 11 million/year deal a few years ago. At this teams peak he will be the 3rd highest player which is accurate evaluation for someone with Lavine's potential. By the way, the guy who he's matched up with numbers wise year by year is DeRozan who is being paid 26.5 mil/year.

DeRozan is one of the most overrated players in the league. And probably the worst playoff performer of all time.

Hoping he becomes DeRozan as if that's a good thing....

[HomoSapien]

Per 36 he averages 22,5, and 4. If he could reach those numbers on better shooting then can we afford to let him walk? He’ll be 27-28 by the end of the contract, so barring injuries it feels like you’d always be able to find a team who would take a flyer on him.

For the record, I still think he’s most likely going to be a Jamal Crawford type of player, but I hate losing assets.

By PER 36, without citing any other stats, 90% of the league deserves 80 million over 4 years.

Well, it’s not purely theoretical with him because we have a fair amount of evidence suggesting that he can put up big numbers. The big question is whether or not you think he has the work ethic and determination to improve his flaws. I’m not high on him, but I don’t buy that at 23 he’s a finished product. I’m also reluctant to put too much stock in what he did for us. To me the most important takeaway is that he seems to have made a full recovery in terms of his injury.

[TheSuzerain]

The market sucks out almost all value you get from players. Which is why re-signing sub-max players hardly ever works.

This is way trading for an impending sub-max free agent was idiotic. We would have been far better keeping the 16.

[chefo]

The Bulls will match, not because he deserves it, he most definitely doesn't, but because the Kings' non-functional-bball-IQ FO gave them cover to. If he does well, the Bulls will say--look we're great at evaluating talent. If he continues to suck, the Bulls FO will tell Jerry--see boss, we paid market, it's just kids are overpaid these days.

So, say goodbye to 2 MAX FAs next year. Shrek and Lavine will make a max FA salary between them while likely being huge net negatives on the court. Brilliant!

Then for the Bulls not to suck for next 3-4 years, you're hoping that a guy that has sucked each time he was asked to be the lead guard has an epiphany that he needs to play off ball, because nobody who understands ball (like most of the top players in the NBA) likes to play with a chucker that both does not like passing, and does not have a clue on D. And if he stunts Lauri's growth, they'll have a riot on their hands.

Or it can all work out. But given that the offer came from the dumbest FO in the entire league, it will be a miracle.

[vxmike]

This is great. More cap space plus cap space just got a lot more valuable. They can go get Marcus Smart now cheaper than Lavine or take even more salary dumps now. CHI and ATL are the only salary dump spots left and there a ton of teams with tax troubles. Bulls can snag some 1sts hopefully and go into next summer with crazy cap space.

[Kurt Heimlich]

Sweet garpax nailing down another "worst contract of the offseason" contender after their felicio masterpiece last summer. Bobby must be licking his lips for 2019.

[_txchilibowl_]

If this happens I'm done for awhile. Would be the low point of my fandom probably post Jordan. I think quite a few people around 25-40 would think the same thing.

I'm 40. This is nowhere close to a low point for me.

Post dynasty? Kornell David? Khalid El-Amin?

That's how you low point....

Yea fair enough. But the Baby Bulls and Rose years took a lot out of me. Was starting at a much higher enthusiasm level post Dynasty.

It's funny but I was the exact opposite....

Going from watching the Jordan Bulls to the Ron Mercer Bulls was like eating filet mingon your whole life and then somebody slapping some Spam on your plate and saying "Bon Appetite, ***hole".

Ugh.

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[BR0D1E86]

I hope the Bulls decline to match, Lavine is virtually the same player he was three years ago. He hasn't shown any significant margin of improvement and he will probably never defend his position at higher than a below average level. Paying him 80 million dollars will be exactly that, the Bulls will pay every cent of that contract because he will be impossible to move.

That's not entirely fair. He improved slightly each season until his third when he went down with an ACL injury. And as we've all experience first hand as Bulls fans, you're not going to come back from an ACL injury and expect improvement from the time you went down.

He scored a bit more efficiently. Problem is he got to being very efficient for what he is as a player and he was still a big negative to his team. I'm not sure I'd call that improvement. Not meaningful improvement anyway. The only way for him to improve is to fundamentally change his attitude, effort and approach to the game. Unlikely.

[DASMACKDOWN]

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18 mil

So 20 mil isnt much of a stretch. Im fine with it

[GrowingHorns]

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Considering if it''s true... 8 millions less? Zach already been little bit passive-aggressive about this? AND we'd be matching it?

I am extremely worried about this would be a HUGE mistake leading to stunt the progression of our other young guns. Please, please, please don't match it for the love of the basketball gods...

[contestedlayups]

Boozer, Gasol, Wallace. And just because it never happened in the past, doesn't mean it won't ever. Haven't you ever read the fine print "past performance is no guarantee of future results"?

And those three names is exactly why relying on free agency with this front office is by far the worst way to go. It's bitten the Bulls franchise so many times in the past, yet for some reason everyone on these forums thinks that they'll get it right this time!

You can't win if you don't try. A lot of teams strike out in free agency. The key is having a quality core of young talent.

The Bulls have struck out on free agency for the better part of 20 years, and with the same front office, having two max slots likely won't amount to much. That being said, development of the Bulls young players is crucial, like you said in your post. Allowing a player like Lavine who is clearly still developing to walk for no compensation sets the Bulls back, no matter how you look at it. The Bulls are still three seasons away from having to pay Lauri, and by that time, Lavine's contract will be tradeable, as he'll be in the last year of his deal. I just don't understand why people are up in arms about $20 mil when the Bulls aren't even close to matching their salary floor for next year and desperately need scoring from all positions.