How Good is Jimmy Butler?

[othawhitemeat]

If these finals were occurring under normal circumstances, Jimmy's 40 point triple-double would probably be considered as one of the greatest single-game performances in NBA history. He really was unstoppable in the 4th, and LeBron had no answer for him. It just goes to show you how badly GarPax constructed teams while we had Butler, because he was rarely surrounded by shooters and spacers.

That's for sure. Can you imagine if we did what Thibs encouraged and drafted Draymond Green, kept Dinwiddie and drafted someone like Gary Harris instead of trading two picks for McDermott? I don't know how Draymond would have fit temper wise with Butler, but that is some really tough defense below - shooting may have been a slight concern outside of Gary Harris though.

Dinwiddie
Gary Harris
Butler
Draymond
Whatever

[Mech Engineer]

In fairness no one expected Jimmy’s stock to rise this high, except Jimmy Butler, but really the whole NBA has under rated him his whole career and he just keeps raising the bar. He is a real feel good story aside from the prima Donna stuff, but you can understand it because this guy has lack some skills but he has that winner gene. He backs up his prima Donna moves. Does anyone still think KAT is the better player?

I don't think we need to be fair here. Tip of the hat to Ice Man, and other recent posts -

It's not about knowing what he'd be at his apex. It's the fact that we already knew at the time he was clearly a top 15-20 player. Those don't grow on trees...and you need multiple players of that ilk, or above to compete for titles. Why get rid of him?

I'm for tanking in the rare transcendent drafts, but the idea of bottoming out as necessity is losing traction year after year when you look at what the Heat have done this year...how the Warriors were built through the draft w/o any top 5 picks (pre-Durant...and I'm not counting Bogut). To a lesser extent teams like the Pacers remain competitive. How teams like the Thunder remain relevant, and in a position to improve while losing superstars. How so many of the brightest prime/young stars aren't top 5 picks (e.g. - Kawhi, Giannis, Jokic, Murray, Bam, D. Mitchell, Gobert, etc.,etc.,etc.).

Trading Jimmy was done because he rubbed the outdated, way past their time FO the wrong way...and it was a terrible, horrendous choice.

It was so deflating as a Bulls fan. It was obvious as day and night that GarPax were useless by 2013/14. And, it was also obvious that Jimmy was definitely a regular All-star at the minimum. They were let to bet the franchise on Hoiberg rather than Jimmy and this is a management who didn't value coaches.

They were just outdated and the biggest mistake was not kicking them out when they got rid of Thibs. The whole franchise could have used a new mindset at that time.

We will keep waiting for the next MJ ....it's been only 22 years

[othawhitemeat]

I will double down on this too... Jimmy would have accommodated the Bulls without a doubt if they showed him love. The Bulls if they were going to really rebuild should have never done the 3 alphas which wasn’t even that bad, but rather grew from that. Instead they missed the tank by 2 years, alienated Butler and really screwed up. Not really a stretch of imagination that if the Bulls were a 6-8 seed last year when AD had his trade demands that the Bulls would have been in the running. This last off season we would have been in the mix with everyone too honestly. Maybe you still strike out but the team would have been better and had the chance to get those guys.

Yeah, they sure as hell did Jimmy dirty when it came to giving him a real chance in Chicago. Can’t believe ownership’s GarPax obsession lost us this level of player.

I so wish they drafted Lavine over Dougy. With the gym rat Lavine is...Jimmy would’ve taken him under his wing, and I think they would’ve been two peas in a pod. Maybe Jimmy’s D would’ve rubbed off a bit too.

What a wasted opportunity with draft capital, and cap space. All the incredulous, super max fear-mongering cry babies...where are you now?

In fairness no one expected Jimmy’s stock to rise this high, except Jimmy Butler, but really the whole NBA has under rated him his whole career and he just keeps raising the bar. He is a real feel good story aside from the prima Donna stuff, but you can understand it because this guy has lack some skills but he has that winner gene. He backs up his prima Donna moves. Does anyone still think KAT is the better player?

Going through the list, I think Butler is like the 11th best player in the NBA right now, but his will to win for me puts him over Harden, Lilliard, etc... even though they are better players.

[othawhitemeat]

One thing I don't understand teams are not doing more often is daring Jimmy to shoot more 3's. He used to be a solid threat, but for whatever reason, it is not there this year. I bet Lakers will sag back tonight's game.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

If these finals were occurring under normal circumstances, Jimmy's 40 point triple-double would probably be considered as one of the greatest single-game performances in NBA history. He really was unstoppable in the 4th, and LeBron had no answer for him. It just goes to show you how badly GarPax constructed teams while we had Butler, because he was rarely surrounded by shooters and spacers.

That's for sure. Can you imagine if we did what Thibs encouraged and drafted Draymond Green, kept Dinwiddie and drafted someone like Gary Harris instead of trading two picks for McDermott? I don't know how Draymond would have fit temper wise with Butler, but that is some really tough defense below - shooting may have been a slight concern outside of Gary Harris though.

Dinwiddie
Gary Harris
Butler
Draymond
Whatever

With any foresight it easily could have been

Dinwiddie
Bogdanovi or Joe Harris
Buckets
Draymond
Nurki or Capella

[TheSuzerain]

One thing I don't understand teams are not doing more often is daring Jimmy to shoot more 3's. He used to be a solid threat, but for whatever reason, it is not there this year. I bet Lakers will sag back tonight's game.

It's not really much of an issue when he's on-ball.

This is why it gets sketchy for Miami on the offensive end though when Bam returns. Their pristine spacing will be no more.

But they probably need Bam back defensively to keep AD in check, so it's a tough spot.

[Ice Man]

It's not really much of an issue when he's on-ball.

If I am coaching Jimmy, he's on ball as often as he can handle the responsibility. He's not an ideal off-ball guard, because he doesn't catch and shoot, and while he does cut well to the basket I wouldn't say that he's brilliant at off-the-ball movement. But as Zach Lowe wrote earlier today, he has the instincts of a pure PG. He doesn't look like a PG, he's not flashy, but he sees the court so well and makes great decisions.

[TheSuzerain]

Of all the skills/traits that Jimmy developed, I think the vision/passing is the most bizarre.

You wouldn't think that's a trait that you could just develop in your mid-20s. And yet he's phenomenal at it! It makes no sense.

[Dan Z]

If these finals were occurring under normal circumstances, Jimmy's 40 point triple-double would probably be considered as one of the greatest single-game performances in NBA history. He really was unstoppable in the 4th, and LeBron had no answer for him. It just goes to show you how badly GarPax constructed teams while we had Butler, because he was rarely surrounded by shooters and spacers.

That's for sure. Can you imagine if we did what Thibs encouraged and drafted Draymond Green, kept Dinwiddie and drafted someone like Gary Harris instead of trading two picks for McDermott? I don't know how Draymond would have fit temper wise with Butler, but that is some really tough defense below - shooting may have been a slight concern outside of Gary Harris though.

Dinwiddie
Gary Harris
Butler
Draymond
Whatever

With any foresight it easily could have been

Dinwiddie
Bogdanovi or Joe Harris
Buckets
Draymond
Nurki or Capella

I always thought the McDermott trade was one reason why they traded Butler. Let's say they still do the McDermott trade, but decide to build with Butler.

In 2017 they draft one of these players: John Collins, OG Anunoby, or Jarrett Allen.

Maybe they even keep their 2nd round pick? Probably not, but these players were available: Thomas Bryant, Dillon Brooks and Monte Morris

My guess is that 2018 is a lost season because Portis punched Mirotic, but the Bulls would still finish with more wins than they did (because of Butler). My guess is that these players would be available: SGA, Miles Bridges, Michael Porter Jr, and Kevin Huerter.

Do they still trade Mirotic? Probably. If they already drafted OG, or another wing player, do they draft Hutchison? Other players that were available: Aaron Holiday, Anfernee Simons, Mitchell Robinson and Landry Shamet.

Combine that with Butler and smart FA moves and it's not a bad team.

[Mech Engineer]

That's for sure. Can you imagine if we did what Thibs encouraged and drafted Draymond Green, kept Dinwiddie and drafted someone like Gary Harris instead of trading two picks for McDermott? I don't know how Draymond would have fit temper wise with Butler, but that is some really tough defense below - shooting may have been a slight concern outside of Gary Harris though.

Dinwiddie
Gary Harris
Butler
Draymond
Whatever

With any foresight it easily could have been

Dinwiddie
Bogdanovi or Joe Harris
Buckets
Draymond
Nurki or Capella

I always thought the McDermott trade was one reason why they traded Butler. Let's say they still do the McDermott trade, but decide to build with Butler.

In 2017 they draft one of these players: John Collins, OG Anunoby, or Jarrett Allen.

Maybe they even keep their 2nd round pick? Probably not, but these players were available: Thomas Bryant, Dillon Brooks and Monte Morris

My guess is that 2018 is a lost season because Portis punched Mirotic, but the Bulls would still finish with more wins than they did (because of Butler). My guess is that these players would be available: SGA, Miles Bridges, Michael Porter Jr, and Kevin Huerter.

Do they still trade Mirotic? Probably. If they already drafted OG, or another wing player, do they draft Hutchison? Other players that were available: Aaron Holiday, Anfernee Simons, Mitchell Robinson and Landry Shamet.

Combine that with Butler and smart FA moves and it's not a bad team.

As bad as was the McDermott trade, he was essentially a late lottery pick. Your team should not be decimated because of that pick. Heck, if they were smart...he was a cheap useful player at the end of the bench.

Acting like one bad pick changes the course of your team is the most irritating thing. Doug was not on a max contract for salary cap purposes either. It was just plain incompetence as a GM and President. Pat Riley has made a lot of bad decisions in drafting, free agency and trades. It should not make you get rid of a Jimmy level home grown talent.

[Dan Z]

I always thought the McDermott trade was one reason why they traded Butler. Let's say they still do the McDermott trade, but decide to build with Butler.

In 2017 they draft one of these players: John Collins, OG Anunoby, or Jarrett Allen.

Maybe they even keep their 2nd round pick? Probably not, but these players were available: Thomas Bryant, Dillon Brooks and Monte Morris

My guess is that 2018 is a lost season because Portis punched Mirotic, but the Bulls would still finish with more wins than they did (because of Butler). My guess is that these players would be available: SGA, Miles Bridges, Michael Porter Jr, and Kevin Huerter.

Do they still trade Mirotic? Probably. If they already drafted OG, or another wing player, do they draft Hutchison? Other players that were available: Aaron Holiday, Anfernee Simons, Mitchell Robinson and Landry Shamet.

Combine that with Butler and smart FA moves and it's not a bad team.

As bad as was the McDermott trade, he was essentially a late lottery pick. Your team should not be decimated because of that pick. Heck, if they were smart...he was a cheap useful player at the end of the bench.

Acting like one bad pick changes the course of your team is the most irritating thing. Doug was not on a max contract for salary cap purposes either. It was just plain incompetence as a GM and President. Pat Riley has made a lot of bad decisions in drafting, free agency and trades. It should not make you get rid of a Jimmy level home grown talent.

The McDermott trade meant that the Bulls didn't have any young players with upside to build with Butler. Then if they kept Butler that potentially means that the team finishes each year with too many wins to get a top talent in the draft. At least I think that's the thought behind it.

I didn't want them to trade Butler at that time, but I think that's one reason why they did it. The other reasons were his future contract and what they thought about him as being a player to lead the team.

Obviously in retrospect the trade doesn't look good.

[Mech Engineer]

I always thought the McDermott trade was one reason why they traded Butler. Let's say they still do the McDermott trade, but decide to build with Butler.

In 2017 they draft one of these players: John Collins, OG Anunoby, or Jarrett Allen.

Maybe they even keep their 2nd round pick? Probably not, but these players were available: Thomas Bryant, Dillon Brooks and Monte Morris

My guess is that 2018 is a lost season because Portis punched Mirotic, but the Bulls would still finish with more wins than they did (because of Butler). My guess is that these players would be available: SGA, Miles Bridges, Michael Porter Jr, and Kevin Huerter.

Do they still trade Mirotic? Probably. If they already drafted OG, or another wing player, do they draft Hutchison? Other players that were available: Aaron Holiday, Anfernee Simons, Mitchell Robinson and Landry Shamet.

Combine that with Butler and smart FA moves and it's not a bad team.

As bad as was the McDermott trade, he was essentially a late lottery pick. Your team should not be decimated because of that pick. Heck, if they were smart...he was a cheap useful player at the end of the bench.

Acting like one bad pick changes the course of your team is the most irritating thing. Doug was not on a max contract for salary cap purposes either. It was just plain incompetence as a GM and President. Pat Riley has made a lot of bad decisions in drafting, free agency and trades. It should not make you get rid of a Jimmy level home grown talent.

The McDermott trade meant that the Bulls didn't have any young players with upside to build with Butler. Then if they kept Butler that potentially means that the team finishes each year with too many wins to get a top talent in the draft. At least I think that's the thought behind it.

I didn't want them to trade Butler at that time, but I think that's one reason why they did it. The other reasons were his future contract and what they thought about him as being a player to lead the team.

Obviously in retrospect the trade doesn't look good.

They could have got rid of everyone except Mirotic n Butler. They could have easily reset and built a team on top of those two.

[Dan Z]

.

The McDermott trade meant that the Bulls didn't have any young players with upside to build with Butler. Then if they kept Butler that potentially means that the team finishes each year with too many wins to get a top talent in the draft. At least I think that's the thought behind it.

I didn't want them to trade Butler at that time, but I think that's one reason why they did it. The other reasons were his future contract and what they thought about him as being a player to lead the team.

Obviously in retrospect the trade doesn't look good.

They could have got rid of everyone except Mirotic n Butler. They could have easily reset and built a team on top of those two.

I agree with you, but I don't think Mirotic was going to stay after Portis punched him.

[HomoSapien]

As long as they got rid of Portis, I think that relationship would have been salvageable. There were guys who were on team Portis, but none of them were true long-term pieces either.

[johnnyvann840]

As long as they got rid of Portis, I think that relationship would have been salvageable. There were guys who were on team Portis, but none of them were true long-term pieces either.

Absolutely. If the Bulls FO would have done the right thing at the time and just shipped Portis' ass out of town, Niko would have happily stayed here. In fact, he gave them the choice, publicly saying if you are keeping the guy who cold cocked me in the face, then trade me. It's him or me. Instead, our management did the unthinkable and actually chose Portis over Mirotic. lol. Just like they chose Hoiberg over Jimmy Butler (and Rondo). Just like when they chose Jerian Grant over Spencer Dinwiddie. Some bad choices. Then, they hired Jim freaking Boylen to be the head coach of the Chicago Bulls. Really bad choices.

[Leslie Forman]

MIrotic had to go too.

I mean, look where he is now. He ain't about that life.

[johnnyvann840]

MIrotic had to go too.

I mean, look where he is now. He ain't about that life.

He wanted to be a Chicago Bull, just like Jimmy did. So, we don't know how things would have worked out if he stayed with the Bulls. Maybe you're right and he would have gone back to Europe anyway, but I don't know.

[weneeda2guard]

The thing about Jimmy is he was an active recruiter. Kyrie originally put us on his short list of trade destinations from Cleveland because of Jimmy butler. Kawhi originally wanted to play with Jimmy. Jimmy wanted to build something here. No telling how long it will take before we get another all star that wants to do that

[Orangey]

One thing I don't understand teams are not doing more often is daring Jimmy to shoot more 3's. He used to be a solid threat, but for whatever reason, it is not there this year. I bet Lakers will sag back tonight's game.

He was shooting above 35% since 2016 from 3 until he got to the Sixers. They broke him.

[Michael Jackson]

As much I like Jimmy Butler, I think there's a need for most to take a chill pill. I know he has a historic game 3 but it's unlikely he repeats such performance in game 4.

Bron will be out to kill while AD looks to redeem himself.

Nevertheless, Jimmy is the role model for all players who's playing with a chip on their shoulders. Really hats off to him, let's just enjoy the moment and his greatness while we can.

No he will not repeat that performance but this isn’t about game three at all really. It is about every team he has been in being better with him and instantly getting worse when he is gone. It is about him leading a team no one chose to get to the finals this year. It is about his collective impact and his continual growth. He deserves the damn praise. As a rookie I remember many of us making fun of his wing span and physical limitations. He has only consistently gotten better and better and is a winner. Every team that has let him go really made a bad choice not just the Bulls.