What exactly is the plan?

[waffle]

they KNOWINGLY tied their futures to the development of PWILL. And I think they'd do it again.

His development is the HUGE TBD in this plan. But this team is better positioned to be highly competitive than the one BEFORE the trade deadline

[Am2626]

All jokes aside, the Bulls and the fan base have to ask these questions. Are we better than the other teams that did and didn't make the postseason? Is our future better than those other teams with our current roster and assets? If not, we are projected not to make the playoffs for a while.

Playoff Teams:
Philadelphia (No)
Brooklyn (No)
Milwaukee (No)
NY (No)
Atlanta (No)
Miami (No)
Boston (No)
Washington (No)


Non Playoff Teams:
Indiana (No)
Charlotte (No)
Toronto (No)
Cleveland (Yes)
Orlando (Yes)
Detroit (Yes)

Going into last season no one thought the Knicks were a playoff team or even better than this Bulls team. That’s even before the Vuc trade. This team made major roster changes on the fly at the trade deadline and we don’t know what additions will be added via trade or FA this summer. Let’s stop speculating and see how next season plays out. If at the end of next year this team is in the same place they are in right now then that would be the time to panic. Right now to have the doom and gloom attitude is way too premature.

Some people hate reality, its not doom and gloom. This is our team's reality at this point, to say that we are better than the Knicks is comical. We are living in the past! Our current roster does not outweigh any team that made the post season this year, nor does it look better than the Pacers or Hornets moving forward.

Are you hearing what I said? I said at the start of the season no one thought the Knicks were better than the Bulls. They were a bottom 3 team the year before. Now their outlook is completely different and their biggest roster move was Derrick Rose. Obviously Thibs has a lot to do with their success this year.

I’m not talking about the Knicks being worst now. I’m talking about when the season started last year.

[dougthonus]

As for the bolded, I don't agree - almost all of these deals will be worked out during the "dead" period between Aug 1 and when contracts can actually be signed. As long as our first official move after the "July" (this year August) Moratorium is to sign and trade Lauri, we can still use all of our cap space. Assuming we only get a future pick(s) for Lauri, of course.

That's true, but a highly unlikely scenario to unfold IMO. Why is a team under the cap going to send us picks vs just signing him outright? They'd do it only if they felt we'd match, but all indications are we won't match. In the scenario where a team under the cap throws us a 2nd not to match, then I agree we could S&T him and still use cap room we generate, but I think it's far more likely you're going to get a 2nd by a team that has to send you contracts of course the matching of contracts due to the rules formerly known as BYC is difficult.

In that scenario, we could also choose to take a trade exception and operate over the cap, though the exception would only equal half of Lauri's new 1st year salary due to the BYC rules.

[gobullschi]

Does this off season have anything that separates itself from prior years to cause a historical change in sign and trades? I know the cap not going as high as people expected and a COVID year are to easy variables to point out, but why would that change things? Is there something else? It seems like a sign and trade has been talked up since after the trade deadline, so finding an answer to why would clarify things.

Talked up by who? Bulls fans that desperately want to get something for Lauri? I've not heard a lot of S&T rumors anywhere else. When you get down to it, no one wanted Lauri enough to give up something for him at the deadline, and he didn't have an amazing second half of his season to increase his value from that point.

It's hard to imagine a team giving up anything noteworthy for him now based on that when the mechanics of the deal are harder. The one thing you could say to mitigate that might be that if they trade for him in a S&T they get longevity and cost certainty vs the unknown of having him as an RFA, but unlikely you see a big return here IMO. I think maybe you could get a 2nd rounder if there is a team that wants Lauri and doesn't have the cap room.

Also worth noting that for the Bulls to operate below the cap, it necessitates releasing Lauri's cap hold and our ability to S&T him.

It’s been talked about on multiple podcasts and by NBC sports. Doesn’t mean it holds any legs, but was always curious why the idea got so much attention.

[WindyCityBorn]

I just don’t get this much overwhelming pessimism. I still believe AK knows what he is doing. One season is not enough to say PWill will never be a star and less than half a season is not enough to say Vuc was a bad trade especially when Zach missed like a month after that. I will wait to see the moves this Summer and how the team plays next season before jumping off the cliff with the rest of you.

[gobullschi]

I just don’t get this much overwhelming pessimism. I still believe AK knows what he is doing. One season is not enough to day PWill will never be a star and less than half a season is not enough to say Vuc was a ad trade especially when Zach missed like a month after that. I will wait to see the moves this Summer and how the team plays next season before jumping off the cliff with the rest of you.

Some people get off on ‘calling a guy a bust first’. I never really understood or enjoyed the thought of deciding a players fate before his rookie contract even expires. The average age a player even makes their first all-star game is 24 years old.

It’s the most talented Bulls team years, yet people continue to complain and push for a full rebuild. I swear, people just look forward to drafting young talent. I’m willing to give AK 3-4 years before I write this team off. The COVID season was weird AF. Heck, I’m sure most of us can agree that our work lives was a clust*rfuk.

The Bulls are sitting with two all-stars, a bunch of cap space, and a former 4th pick that showed two-way potential. Coby at worst, looks like a prototypical 6th man, which is still a very valuable piece. Winning the lottery would have made the path easier, but this offseason or next will ultimately decide the future of the organization. Still undecided on which is the best route via free agency; 2021 offseason or 2022 offseason.

[CobyWhite0]

As for the bolded, I don't agree - almost all of these deals will be worked out during the "dead" period between Aug 1 and when contracts can actually be signed. As long as our first official move after the "July" (this year August) Moratorium is to sign and trade Lauri, we can still use all of our cap space. Assuming we only get a future pick(s) for Lauri, of course.

That's true, but a highly unlikely scenario to unfold IMO. Why is a team under the cap going to send us picks vs just signing him outright? They'd do it only if they felt we'd match, but all indications are we won't match. In the scenario where a team under the cap throws us a 2nd not to match, then I agree we could S&T him and still use cap room we generate, but I think it's far more likely you're going to get a 2nd by a team that has to send you contracts of course the matching of contracts due to the rules formerly known as BYC is difficult.

In that scenario, we could also choose to take a trade exception and operate over the cap, though the exception would only equal half of Lauri's new 1st year salary due to the BYC rules.

I was responding to your post where you stated (correctly) that we'll be lucky to get a 2nd in a S&T for Lauri... right before you pointed out (correctly) that "Also worth noting that for the Bulls to operate below the cap, it necessitates releasing Lauri's cap hold and our ability to S&T him."

What's the big deal about releasing Lauri's cap hold if we can't S&T him for anything more than a 2nd anyway?

[dice]

So if the Bulls were to decide to kick the can down the road (and risk having LaVine walk), these are the players that would be "available".

Player Options:
John Wall
James Harden
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Durant*
Bradley Beal*
Jimmy Butler*
Kyrie Irving


Unrestricted:
Kawhi Leonard
Julius Randle*

if the goal is to not have lavine walk (which it shouldn't be) or not, the process should be the same: make good signings! whether that's this summer, which would require the team to substantially improve next season as a result, or a significantly bigger fish next summer, which would certainly entice lavine to re-sign regardless of the team's performance in the interim

I’m just trying to understand who the Bulls could realistically land the following offseason if they decide to ‘kick the can down the road’.

LaVine had the opportunity to recruit Beal & Randle at the all star game. Randle isn’t a good fit next to Vucevic though and it’s questionable whether a Beal/LaVine backcourt would work. Beal does have the team USA and Billy Donovan connection, which is the only great opportunity/opening for recruitment.

Do we really expect the Durant/Irving/Harden trio to break up? I don’t. Leonard isn’t leaving LA. Wall and Westbrook? Eh. I actually could see (small chance) Jimmy Butler making a return to Chicago (retire a Bull - come full circle).

So unless a new all-star caliber player emerges, the Bulls only realistic options would be Bradley Beal and Jimmy Butler.

yeah, it's not promising. which is why most teams are more successful building through the draft

[Leslie Forman]

Non Playoff Teams:
Indiana (No)
Charlotte (No)
Toronto (No)
Cleveland (Yes)
Orlando (Yes)
Detroit (Yes)

Detroit just got Cade Cunningham. Cleveland are going to get one of Green/Suggs/Mobley/Kuminga and can get a pretty good return for Sexton.

Those two teams are probably gonna have worse records than the Bulls next season but over the long haul I'd absolutely trade spots with them immediately.

I seriously cannot think of another team with a worse collection of trade assets than the Bulls.

[CobyWhite0]

Non Playoff Teams:
Indiana (No)
Charlotte (No)
Toronto (No)
Cleveland (Yes)
Orlando (Yes)
Detroit (Yes)

Detroit just got Cade Cunningham. Cleveland are going to get one of Green/Suggs/Mobley/Kuminga and can get a pretty good return for Sexton.

Those two teams are probably gonna have worse records than the Bulls next season but over the long haul I'd absolutely trade spots with them immediately.

I seriously cannot think of another team with a worse collection of trade assets than the Bulls.

The Bulls are one of 8 teams (Nets, Sixers, Celtics, Lakers, Clippers, Suns, Jazz) with 2 All-Stars on their roster heading into the summer.

I seriously cannot think of one team in the NBA who would rather have "a nice collection of trade assets" instead of 2 "actual, real-life All-Stars".

[WindyCityBorn]

Non Playoff Teams:
Indiana (No)
Charlotte (No)
Toronto (No)
Cleveland (Yes)
Orlando (Yes)
Detroit (Yes)

Detroit just got Cade Cunningham. Cleveland are going to get one of Green/Suggs/Mobley/Kuminga and can get a pretty good return for Sexton.

Those two teams are probably gonna have worse records than the Bulls next season but over the long haul I'd absolutely trade spots with them immediately.

I seriously cannot think of another team with a worse collection of trade assets than the Bulls.

The Bulls are one of 8 teams (Nets, Sixers, Celtics, Lakers, Clippers, Suns, Jazz) with 2 All-Stars on their roster heading into the summer.

I seriously cannot think of one team in the NBA who would rather have "a nice collection of trade assets" instead of 2 "actual, real-life All-Stars".

Expect the response that our all-stars are not “real” all-stars despite them absolutely playing like all-stars. Also Vuc is 31 so he is soon to worthless.

[CobyWhite0]

Detroit just got Cade Cunningham. Cleveland are going to get one of Green/Suggs/Mobley/Kuminga and can get a pretty good return for Sexton.

Those two teams are probably gonna have worse records than the Bulls next season but over the long haul I'd absolutely trade spots with them immediately.

I seriously cannot think of another team with a worse collection of trade assets than the Bulls.

The Bulls are one of 8 teams (Nets, Sixers, Celtics, Lakers, Clippers, Suns, Jazz) with 2 All-Stars on their roster heading into the summer.

I seriously cannot think of one team in the NBA who would rather have "a nice collection of trade assets" instead of 2 "actual, real-life All-Stars".

Expect the response that our all-stars are not “real” all-stars despite them absolutely playing like all-stars. Also Vuc is 31 so he is soon to worthless.

No doubt about it.

I'll bet we could trade Zach to GS for #7 and #14, and I'm sure we could get a low lottery pick for Vuc... then we'll have all kinds of trade assets!!!!

[petebraun0]

No doubt about it.

I'll bet we could trade Zach to GS for #7 and #14, and I'm sure we could get a low lottery pick for Vuc... then we'll have all kinds of trade assets!!!!


I like the above idea. 3 first round picks plus our 2nd round pick, now you have a young team on the rise. but does GS need Zach?

[petebraun0]

Only way for our Bulls to improve is to pull a Miami and bring in a 2nd and non-drafted player who has talent. ala Robinson and Nunn. We need to pull a Miami Heat and find hidden talent near the bottom.

[waffle]

Is PWill any less likely to be a good to very good player in the future? Than any of those picks you are looking to accumulate?

Personally I think he is AT WORST just as likely. He is 19 and has played with the big boys for a year and mostly held his own.

Picks are sexy. I get that. But you now have 2 all stars, a rising talent with a tantalizing ceiling and a solid 6th man (Coby). That's a great place to work FROM.

I really don't think any conclusions can be made about how good the EXISTING talent can play until they have a chance to do so consistently, which they haven't

This is the first Bulls team IN A WHILE I have looked at and said "yup, that's pretty good..."

[CobyWhite0]

Is PWill any less likely to be a good to very good player in the future? Than any of those picks you are looking to accumulate?

Personally I think he is AT WORST just as likely. He is 19 and has played with the big boys for a year and mostly held his own.

Picks are sexy. I get that. But you now have 2 all stars, a rising talent with a tantalizing ceiling and a solid 6th man (Coby). That's a great place to work FROM.

I really don't think any conclusions can be made about how good the EXISTING talent can play until they have a chance to do so consistently, which they haven't

This is the first Bulls team IN A WHILE I have looked at and said "yup, that's pretty good..."

I'm not sure I've ever seen a fan base so convinced that their 2 all-stars are doomed to failure based on 10 games.

TEN. GAMES. Going 3-7 in the ten games immediately after the trade (before Zach went out with Covid) apparently proves beyond any doubt that the Zach/Vuc combo is a waste of time. Of course, you have to ignore the 5 games after Zach came back, when we were 4-1 and looked downright dominant at times.

But at least you might be able to make a little bit of sense out of that stance - it's just downright comical seeing people complain about missing out on a #8 draft pick at the exact same time they're complaining that the guys we picked #4 and #7 in the last two drafts will never amount to anything before either of them is even old enough to go out drinking with their teammates.

[Onibuh]

Patience is the key. It was half a season and it did not end like it was hoped for. Getting a full season of them together with PWill improving (there is no doubt about him improving his overall game) and this team will look better. If it's good enough, we'll see, but they will play better overall.

[BullChit]

Is PWill any less likely to be a good to very good player in the future? Than any of those picks you are looking to accumulate?

Personally I think he is AT WORST just as likely. He is 19 and has played with the big boys for a year and mostly held his own.

Picks are sexy. I get that. But you now have 2 all stars, a rising talent with a tantalizing ceiling and a solid 6th man (Coby). That's a great place to work FROM.

I really don't think any conclusions can be made about how good the EXISTING talent can play until they have a chance to do so consistently, which they haven't

This is the first Bulls team IN A WHILE I have looked at and said "yup, that's pretty good..."

I'm not sure I've ever seen a fan base so convinced that their 2 all-stars are doomed to failure based on 10 games.

TEN. GAMES. Going 3-7 in the ten games immediately after the trade (before Zach went out with Covid) apparently proves beyond any doubt that the Zach/Vuc combo is a waste of time. Of course, you have to ignore the 5 games after Zach came back, when we were 4-1 and looked downright dominant at times.

But at least you might be able to make a little bit of sense out of that stance - it's just downright comical seeing people complain about missing out on a #8 draft pick at the exact same time they're complaining that the guys we picked #4 and #7 in the last two drafts will never amount to anything before either of them is even old enough to go out drinking with their teammates.

Really can't and1 this post enough..



Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk

[The 6ft Hurdle]

Right now my expectation is that this team is 6th-8th seed. If we somehow miss that, then I *might* entertain an early ride on the Fire ArtMarcDorf train.

[WindyCityBorn]

No doubt about it.

I'll bet we could trade Zach to GS for #7 and #14, and I'm sure we could get a low lottery pick for Vuc... then we'll have all kinds of trade assets!!!!


I like the above idea. 3 first round picks plus our 2nd round pick, now you have a young team on the rise. but does GS need Zach?

This is why this forum was designed for people that want to be pretend GMs. I really hope this is sarcasm and you don’t actually believe me that horrible set of transactions is good . A good team on the rise because we acquired got some mid to late lotto picks? JFC.