Bulls Summer League

BullChit · Post #441 » by **BullChit** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:20 am

Ayo looks like the kind of player who dropped to the second round because a player like Kris Dunn came before him

TheFinishSniper · Post #442 » by **TheFinishSniper** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:06 am

BullChit wrote:Ayo looks like the kind of player who dropped to the second round because a player like Kris Dunn came before him

Dunn looked Like prime Westbrook on college. Different issue is he couldnt do half things he did on college at NBA level

BullChit · Post #443 » by **BullChit** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:11 am

TheFinishSniper wrote:
BullChit wrote:Ayo looks like the kind of player who dropped to the second round because a player like Kris Dunn came before him

Dunn looked Like prime Westbrook on college. Different issue is he couldnt do half things he did on college at NBA level

Exactly what I mean.

The same scouts who saw the skills and toolkit of Kris Dunn and said Top 5 pick saw Ayo and started tugging on their collars.

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #444 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:36 pm

From Chad Ford (free preview):

Read on Twitter

Last week we shared our three “Inevitable Truths” about scouting rookies in the NBA Summer League.

Inevitable Truth No. 1: We are going to overreact.

Inevitable Truth No. 2: Our cognitive biases are going to get in the way of good analysis.

Inevitable Truth No. 3: I’m going to ignore Inevitable Truths 1 and 2 and give my opinions anyway.

All three truths also hold for second-year players in the Summer League.

By Year 2 of an NBA career, we typically see major improvement, which leads to dominant Summer League performances by those NBA sophomores.

This year, 12 of the 15 top scorers in the Summer League are NBA sophomores or older.

But as with rookies, there is no guarantee that a strong performance by a second-year player will translate into NBA production. In fact, we should expect sophomores to thrive in this setting.

That said, it’s noteworthy that this was our first opportunity to see the 2020 draft class in Summer League action — the league was canceled in 2020 due to COVID — and there were some really strong performances.

As usual, many sophomores did not play, including LaMelo Ball, Anthony Edwards, James Wiseman, Onyeka Okongwu, Deni Avdija, Tyrese Haliburton, Isaiah Stewart, Aleksej Pokuševski and Josh Green.

Here are the sophomores I have been most impressed by and most disappointed by in the Summer League.

BEST

Patrick Williams
Williams is not quite 20, making him about the same age as the rookie class. With that in mind, when you watch him it’s hard not to think the Chicago Bulls did the right thing drafting him No. 4 in 2020.

His game remains very much a work in progress, but his tools are outstanding. In Vegas, he hit better than 40% from 3-point range, and that kind of shooting will open up a lot of his game. He already has great defensive instincts, and his rebounding numbers were encouraging as well.

It’s easy to find flaws in Williams’ game. He was a turnover machine in Vegas, struggled to finish at the rim and shot just 38% overall from the field. But age matters, and what we saw from Williams was as good as or better than what we saw from his peers the same age. Yes, having a year playing for the Bulls gives him an advantage over the rookies, but I remain very optimistic about his future.

(Note to readers: This is an excerpt of my Best and Worst NBA Sophomores in Summer League provided to free subscribers.

kodo · Post #445 » by **kodo** » Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:45 pm

Patrick did look like he had potential considering he is still

19 years old. But that's also his biggest question mark for me, when Patrick is a stud at 25, where will the Bulls be? Unless we will have won a title already without Patrick's full development, we'll probably be on the next iteration of the team already. His timeline just doesn't fit Derozan and Vucevic's timeline.

He was a weird pick for a win now team.

sco · Post #446 » by **sco** » Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:50 pm

kodo wrote:Patrick did look like he had potential considering he is still 19 years old. But that's also his biggest question mark for me, when Patrick is a stud at 25, where will the Bulls be? Unless we will have won a title already without Patrick's full development, we'll probably be on the next iteration of the team already. His timeline just doesn't fit Derozan and Vucevic's timeline.

He was a weird pick for a win now team.

OK, but the typical progression would have him much of the way the season after this one.

sco · Post #447 » by **sco** » Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:52 pm

BullChit wrote:
TheFinishSniper wrote:
BullChit wrote:Ayo looks like the kind of player who dropped to the second round because a player like Kris Dunn came before him

Dunn looked Like prime Westbrook on college. Different issue is he couldnt do half things he did on college at NBA level

Exactly what I mean.

The same scouts who saw the skills and toolkit of Kris Dunn and said Top 5 pick saw Ayo and started tugging on their collars.

I was impressed with Ayo's PG skills and hope he gets developed to be a PG, because he is worse as a SG who can't shoot. His 3 ball is probably 3 years away from being below average.

Post #448 » by **dougthonus** » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:07 pm

kodo wrote:Patrick did look like he had potential considering he is still 19 years old. But that's also his biggest question mark for me, when Patrick is a stud at 25, where will the Bulls be? Unless we will have won a title already without Patrick's full development, we'll probably be on the next iteration of the team already. His timeline just doesn't fit Derozan and Vucevic's timeline.

He was a weird pick for a win now team.

If he has the long term best future, it is the best pick. If the league views him as a future star then you either have a future star on your hands or someone that has future star potential to trade for someone else that is a win now player.

meekrab · Post #449 » by **meekrab** » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:27 pm

kodo wrote:He was a weird pick for a win now team.

We weren't exactly a "win now" team a year ago, though. And the idea is that we'll have a few years where Zach, Lonzo and Pat are all in their primes together, and DeRozan and Vuc will be replaced with other players.

The idea of at least being competitive and rebuilding the Bulls brand name while Pat develops is a lot more attractive than continuing to lose and draft at #7, at least to me. Somewhat similar strategy to what GSW are doing, albeit with less objective talent.

Tetlak · Post #450 » by **Tetlak** » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:47 pm

I just was absolutely floored that Shittu was getting minutes over Baxter. Baxter was the most intriguing player on the roster at a position of long term need and he couldn't even get burn

sco · Post #451 » by **sco** » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:22 pm

Tetlak wrote:I just was absolutely floored that Shittu was getting minutes over Baxter. Baxter was the most intriguing player on the roster at a position of long term need and he couldn't even get burn

Yeah. I think they were weighing giving Shittu (who, to me looked worse than last season) a roster spot. Baxter is more intriguing, but only as a 2-way. Also, I think they saw all they needed to see from Baxter pretty quickly...elite athleticism and rim skill, but woefully short on BBIQ.

MrFortune3 · Post #452 » by **MrFortune3** » Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:41 pm

I don't see how Pat was a weird pick. He's exactly the type of player fans were clamoring for. He simply wasn't the name they wanted.
Young, athletic, high potential, defensive acumen and fits the newer NBA mold.

Wingy · Post #453 » by **Wingy** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:18 pm

sco wrote:
Tetlak wrote:I just was absolutely floored that Shittu was getting minutes over Baxter. Baxter was the most intriguing player on the roster at a position of long term need and he couldn't even get burn

Yeah. I think they were weighing giving Shittu (who, to me looked worse than last season) a roster spot. Baxter is more intriguing, but only as a 2-way. Also, I think they saw all they needed to see from Baxter pretty quickly...elite athleticism and rim skill, but woefully short on BBIQ.

What are people’s guesses on % of fans clamoring for Baxter that have also seen him play basketball?

As in, a good chunk of one of his MEAC games. Or perhaps at the combine. Not a highlight video.

I’d guess maybe 1 out of all of them. Maybe.

sco · Post #454 » by **sco** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:21 pm

Wingy wrote:
sco wrote:
Tetlak wrote:I just was absolutely floored that Shittu was getting minutes over Baxter. Baxter was the most intriguing player on the roster at a position of long term need and he couldn't even get burn

Yeah. I think they were weighing giving Shittu (who, to me looked worse than last season) a roster spot. Baxter is more intriguing, but only as a 2-way. Also, I think they saw all they needed to see from Baxter pretty quickly...elite athleticism and rim skill, but woefully short on BBIQ.

What are people’s guesses on % of fans clamoring for Baxter that have also seen him play basketball?

As in, a good chunk of one of his MEAC games. Or perhaps at the combine. Not a highlight video.

I’d guess maybe 1 out of all of them. Maybe.

What about his SL play? I think the clamoring stems from the fact that we have exactly zero rim protectors and no real backup PF. He was the only guy on our SL roster who checked both boxes.

Tetlak · Post #455 » by **Tetlak** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:18 pm

Wingy wrote:
sco wrote:
Tetlak wrote:I just was absolutely floored that Shittu was getting minutes over Baxter. Baxter was the most intriguing player on the roster at a position of long term need and he couldn't even get burn

Yeah. I think they were weighing giving Shittu (who, to me looked worse than last season) a roster spot. Baxter is more intriguing, but only as a 2-way. Also, I think they saw all they needed to see from Baxter pretty quickly...elite athleticism and rim skill, but woefully short on BBIQ.

What are people’s guesses on % of fans clamoring for Baxter that have also seen him play basketball?

As in, a good chunk of one of his MEAC games. Or perhaps at the combine. Not a highlight video.

I’d guess maybe 1 out of all of them. Maybe.

Who cares man. It's a two way contract in the freaking development league. That league exists for this exact reason. The dude has eye popping athleticism, blocks shots, finishes, and shot 35% from 3 on fairly high volume in college. He has tools. There is literally no argument against taking a flyer on him. All of our two way guys have sucked - what would the difference be if Baxter sucked? Alternatively, maybe he pans out and then you have something nice on your hands.

Wingy · Post #456 » by **Wingy** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:43 pm

Tetlak wrote:
Wingy wrote:
sco wrote:Yeah. I think they were weighing giving Shittu (who, to me looked worse than last season) a roster spot. Baxter is more intriguing, but only as a 2-way. Also, I think they saw all they needed to see from Baxter pretty quickly...elite athleticism and rim skill, but woefully short on BBIQ.

What are people’s guesses on % of fans clamoring for Baxter that have also seen him play basketball?

As in, a good chunk of one of his MEAC games. Or perhaps at the combine. Not a highlight video.

I’d guess maybe 1 out of all of them. Maybe.

Who cares man. It's a two way contract in the freaking development league. That league exists for this exact reason. The dude has eye popping athleticism, blocks shots, finishes, and shot 35% from 3 on fairly high volume in college. He has tools. There is literally no argument against taking a flyer on him. All of our two way guys have sucked - what would the difference be if Baxter sucked? Alternatively, maybe he pans out and then you have something nice on your hands.

I’m all for a 2-way deal, and giving him a chance.

My point is the amount of hype, and constant pining for this guy is way out of sync w/what he is as a player. We’ve barely seen him play. He’s the new “it” guy. Like a Jordan Bell. He’ll likely go away, and I’ll no longer be annoyed by all the over-mentioning of this dude.

Again, I’m all for giving him a chance. I was also pro-Jordan Bell >>>>>> cash.

Post #457 » by **kulaz3000** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:43 pm

Watch on YouTube

BullChit · Post #458 » by **BullChit** » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:07 am

kulaz3000 wrote:

Watch on YouTube

Just found this on youtube and came to post it here... I'm a bit behind haha.

Good watch, Ayo seems wise beyond his years, Jerome seems like a cool dude, does Dotson speak at all?

But the highlight to me is Pats mentality, he seems to really want it.

FriedRise · Post #459 » by **FriedRise** » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:29 am

Watch on YouTube

IliketheBullsNBearstoo · Post #460 » by **IliketheBullsNBearstoo** » Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:40 pm

Tetlak wrote:I just was absolutely floored that Shittu was getting minutes over Baxter. Baxter was the most intriguing player on the roster at a position of long term need and he couldn't even get burn

Baxter is one of those players you are just waiting to come out of nowhere with a highlight. But that being said, just watching him, he looked to get lost on the floor a lot. To me it was almost like watching a kid playing at the park not knowing where to go and where to be. He seems to have low basketball IQ and gets by with his athleticism. And at 25 years old he should probably be further along than he is. I was hoping to see a more polished player that was a diamond in the rough :cry:

.