Lets talk Zach Lavine

[BrooklynBulls]

He's putting up 28.4 ppg (2nd in the league) on 50% shooting and 38% from 3, he's also putting up 5 rebs and 5 assists, oh and he's only 25 years old and on a very reasonable contract.

AK would have to be an absolute moron to trade him, they need to surround him with better players mainly: a real PG and teammates who have an IQ north of 100

This

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Honest questions: Do you expect this will happen before he publicly demands a trade and destroys his value? Do you think if he somehow doesn't demand a trade, he would re-sign here in 1.75 seasons?

[thedarkstark]

He's putting up 28.4 ppg (2nd in the league) on 50% shooting and 38% from 3, he's also putting up 5 rebs and 5 assists, oh and he's only 25 years old and on a very reasonable contract.

AK would have to be an absolute moron to trade him, they need to surround him with better players mainly: a real PG and teammates who have an IQ north of 100

This

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Honest questions: Do you expect this will happen before he publicly demands a trade and destroys his value? Do you think if he somehow doesn't demand a trade, he would re-sign here in 1.75 seasons?

You do realize not every player on a losing team demands a trade right? In fact most don't, especially not when they'll be a free agent in 2 years. You shouldn't let irrational fear dictate yours decisions.

[Stratmaster]

He's putting up 28.4 ppg (2nd in the league) on 50% shooting and 38% from 3, he's also putting up 5 rebs and 5 assists, oh and he's only 25 years old and on a very reasonable contract.

AK would have to be an absolute moron to trade him, they need to surround him with better players mainly: a real PG and teammates who have an IQ north of 100

This

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Honest questions: Do you expect this will happen before he publicly demands a trade and destroys his value? Do you think if he somehow doesn't demand a trade, he would re-sign here in 1.75 seasons?

Depends on the 1.75 seasons. Until tonight's game I would have said absolutely he would re-sign.

If this keeps up, I would say the opposite.

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[BrooklynBulls]

This

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Honest questions: Do you expect this will happen before he publicly demands a trade and destroys his value? Do you think if he somehow doesn't demand a trade, he would re-sign here in 1.75 seasons?

You do realize not every player on a losing team demands a trade right? In fact most don't, especially not when they'll be a free agent in 2 years. You shouldn't let irrational fear dictate yours decisions.

I dont think he will demand a trade out right now. I expect that to happen next season. Which is why I would trade him before next season. And I totally disagree with you. Top players on bad teams with expiring contracts ask out all the time, particularly under this CBA.

[Stratmaster]

Honest questions: Do you expect this will happen before he publicly demands a trade and destroys his value? Do you think if he somehow doesn't demand a trade, he would re-sign here in 1.75 seasons?

You do realize not every player on a losing team demands a trade right? In fact most don't, especially not when they'll be a free agent in 2 years. You shouldn't let irrational fear dictate yours decisions.

I dont think he will demand a trade out right now. I expect that to happen next season. Which is why I would trade him before next season. And I totally disagree with you. Top players on bad teams with expiring contracts ask out all the time, particularly under this CBA.

I could be wrong about this...but... Zach seems like the type who would express his desire to be traded more privately if it comes to that, and our new front office seems smart enough to treasure him that if that is what he wants they will look to make it happen. If it comes to that, I don't see a Harden **** situation where it is public.

But again...I could be wrong.

Hopefully we won't find out because without Lavine there is absolutely no reason to watch this team.

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[MisterRoy]

Just shooting from the hip here...but I bet that AK and BD are smart enough to know that if they want to keep Zach they need to put a better team around him.

I also bet they will do something about it.


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

[BrooklynBulls]

I could be wrong about this...but... Zach seems like the type who would express his desire to be traded more privately if it comes to that, and our new front office seems smart enough to treasure him that if that is what he wants they will look to make it happen. If it comes to that, I don't see a Harden **** situation where it is public.

But again...I could be wrong.

Hopefully we won't find out because without Lavine there is absolutely no reason to watch this team.

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I think as a general rule, players privately express their desire to be traded first. I would not be surprised if Zach's already made such a desire known. I expect, if he has that desire, he will make that desire known by this offseason, where teams he wants to go to will have the greatest contract flexibility. And if we fail to trade him this offseason, then he will escalate and make that desire public, because again, waiting too long to trade him will limit his options and make it more difficult to get to his desired location(s). This is the nature of private trade requests. They carry the silent threat of public dispersal if they do not accommodate the timeline of the player. Harden's request started privately too.

[dice]

He's putting up 28.4 ppg (2nd in the league) on 50% shooting and 38% from 3, he's also putting up 5 rebs and 5 assists, oh and he's only 25 years old and on a very reasonable contract.

AK would have to be an absolute moron to trade him, they need to surround him with better players mainly: a real PG and teammates who have an IQ north of 100

his current contract is completely irrelevant except as it relates to his trade value. and he will almost certainly get overpaid on his next contract. so if he can't handle getting overpaid to play on a bad team, FABULOUS! tell management right now!

time to announce your arrival, AK. clean someone's clock and let's start a real rebuild

[netduri2]

He's putting up 28.4 ppg (2nd in the league) on 50% shooting and 38% from 3, he's also putting up 5 rebs and 5 assists, oh and he's only 25 years old and on a very reasonable contract.

AK would have to be an absolute moron to trade him, they need to surround him with better players mainly: a real PG and teammates who have an IQ north of 100

his current contract is completely irrelevant except as it relates to his trade value. and he will almost certainly get overpaid on his next contract. so if he can't handle getting overpaid to play on a bad team, FABULOUS! tell management right now!

time to announce your arrival, AK. clean someone's clock and let's start a real rebuild

Well said.

I really don't understand how people can think LaVine is the guy whom you build around to make a competitve team.

His defense sucks. Though he has showed some improvement of his passing and ball-handling this season he is still too inconsistent when he has the ball except when he scores.

You don't build around players who lack defensive awareness AND playmaking ability because hiding those players' weaknesses is very difficult. I'd rather try to find another guy whom we can build around even if it takes another 3-4 years of rebullding period.

We are the bottom 5 team right now. It's time to clean the slate and take a fresh start.

[DroseReturnChi]

He's putting up 28.4 ppg (2nd in the league) on 50% shooting and 38% from 3, he's also putting up 5 rebs and 5 assists, oh and he's only 25 years old and on a very reasonable contract.

AK would have to be an absolute moron to trade him, they need to surround him with better players mainly: a real PG and teammates who have an IQ north of 100

OMG lavine is a superstar 2nd in this league. so mvp?? Yikes the highway roberry according to you, mr butler is a scrub.

[kulaz3000]

Honest questions: Do you expect this will happen before he publicly demands a trade and destroys his value? Do you think if he somehow doesn't demand a trade, he would re-sign here in 1.75 seasons?

You do realize not every player on a losing team demands a trade right? In fact most don't, especially not when they'll be a free agent in 2 years. You shouldn't let irrational fear dictate yours decisions.

I dont think he will demand a trade out right now. I expect that to happen next season. Which is why I would trade him before next season. And I totally disagree with you. Top players on bad teams with expiring contracts ask out all the time, particularly under this CBA.

The thing with Zach which is different to some of the other top tier stars who have demanded trades is that they were established All-Stars, and their status in the league was already set, it's just that they were just fed up with all the losing. With Zach, as talented as he is, and as much respect he is getting now, I don't think he has that respect around the league yet - I think overall, he is looked at as a player who can score with the best of them, but can't be a part of a winning team.

In addition, I actually think he likes being the best player on this team and being the man. He frequently talks about being the leader, and it starts and falls on his shoulders, and though he has had trouble at times on the floor to be that leader, I do think he relishes being in that role, and that hope is that eventually he can the top dog of a winning team. Plus, he is still quite young where I feel he would prefer to be the man on a team, and see if this franchise can turn it around, and if he were to bail to be in a winning situation and possibly being lower in the totem pole, later in his career.

Obviously, this is just my opinion, but at least from speaking to the media he does say the right things, and he knows very well that he isn't going to get the respect that he deserves until the team starts winning, but I also do think he likes to be the headliner of a franchise, and he would only have that type of responsibility on a handful of franchises besides the Bulls.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Main problem about Lavine and White is that they are dellusional about them selves and their roles. Nobody in right mind would give Lavine 190 for 5 years as franchise player and handled pg position for White without deserving it. Do you really want to give keys to your franchise for players in molde like Monta Ellis,Brandon Jennings,JR Smith,Dion Waiters,Ricky Davis. We absolutely should trade Lavine for hopefully 2 frp, one at end of lottery one late first, young player with upside. We should teach and develop C.White to be efficent 6 man and superstar in that 6 man role. Get Porter's lazy ass from this team for couple of second rounders, trade Sato&Young also, try to figuread out Markkanen&Carter's roles for future before offseason, get that top 5 pick, extra pick/s one or two from trades above and use cap space 35 mil for signing one buildin block for example John Collins, one upcoming player such as Garry Trent or Loonie Walker and save 10-15 mil to get bad contracts for assetes or to help facilitate trade between multiple teams for draft capital. Just tank propperly with Dotson,Mokoka,Gafford late in season to be able to draft top 5 pick guaranteed.

[Stratmaster]

Zach is shooting .302 from the perimeter at 7.6 3PA.

Ouch.

He's about as good an outside shooter as Wendell Carter right now.

Give it up. At this point it is obvious the bias in your posts. You know Zach is a great 3 point shooter and you try to use a 6 game sample to argue otherwise.

And look at that. A couple days after your post he is up to 32%. And by the end of the season he will be close to his normal 38%.

You know this. We know this. We know you know this. You understand this. At least I hope you do because otherwise you are just really, really ignorant about basketball.

Just stop.

Nothing but facts back when I posted this - but the same can't be said about your hindsight-fueled projection that he'll be at 38% by the end of the season. He might, he might not. Is LaVine immune to bad shooting seasons?

That wasn't really my point, though. That post was supposed to be 50% humor and 50% fact - pointing out that his volume was preposterous for a guy who wasn't hitting. And it still is.

Overall, Zach has been OK though, if we ignore the boneheaded on-ball decisions late in games. So no need to get sensitive! I'm firmly in "Camp LaVine" these days.

Wanted to give you an update. Zach is now shooting 39.6% from 3 on 9.6 attempts per game.

Looks like the only problem was that he wasn't taking enough of them.

[thxfrthmmrs]

He's putting up 28.4 ppg (2nd in the league) on 50% shooting and 38% from 3, he's also putting up 5 rebs and 5 assists, oh and he's only 25 years old and on a very reasonable contract.

AK would have to be an absolute moron to trade him, they need to surround him with better players mainly: a real PG and teammates who have an IQ north of 100

his current contract is completely irrelevant except as it relates to his trade value. and he will almost certainly get overpaid on his next contract. so if he can't handle getting overpaid to play on a bad team, FABULOUS! tell management right now!

time to announce your arrival, AK. clean someone's clock and let's start a real rebuild

Well said.

I really don't understand how people can think LaVine is the guy whom you build around to make a competitve team.

His defense sucks. Though he has showed some improvement of his passing and ball-handling this season he is still too inconsistent when he has the ball except when he scores.

You don't build around players who lack defensive awareness AND playmaking ability because hiding those players' weaknesses is very difficult. I'd rather try to find another guy whom we can build around even if it takes another 3-4 years of rebullding period.

We are the bottom 5 team right now. It's time to clean the slate and take a fresh start.

Lavine just doesn’t have good ball handling ability and basketball IQ to be a true #1 option and a guy you could build around.

If there are teams that are willing to pay star price for him, I would absolutely move him.

Lavine to Warriors for Oubre, 2021 Minny 1st and a couple more firsts would make a lot of sense.

[ZOMG]

Give it up. At this point it is obvious the bias in your posts. You know Zach is a great 3 point shooter and you try to use a 6 game sample to argue otherwise.

And look at that. A couple days after your post he is up to 32%. And by the end of the season he will be close to his normal 38%.

You know this. We know this. We know you know this. You understand this. At least I hope you do because otherwise you are just really, really ignorant about basketball.

Just stop.

Nothing but facts back when I posted this - but the same can't be said about your hindsight-fueled projection that he'll be at 38% by the end of the season. He might, he might not. Is LaVine immune to bad shooting seasons?

That wasn't really my point, though. That post was supposed to be 50% humor and 50% fact - pointing out that his volume was preposterous for a guy who wasn't hitting. And it still is.

Overall, Zach has been OK though, if we ignore the boneheaded on-ball decisions late in games. So no need to get sensitive! I'm firmly in "Camp LaVine" these days.

Wanted to give you an update. Zach is now shooting 39.6% from 3 on 9.6 attempts per game.

Looks like the only problem was that he wasn't taking enough of them.

No idea why you keep returning to an old post that was 100% factually correct at that point. He was shooting like crap then. He's not right now! :shrug:

(He's still not bringing wins, though. No, I didn't move the goalposts - somebody had hidden them and pretended they didn't exist. I just brought them back to daylight.)

Anyway... if we can't talk about how a player is doing at a given moment, it's gonna be hard to discuss anything. Yes, most things will return to the mean with time... so maybe we should just say that Zach won't lead us into the playoffs this season either and leave it at that.

[StunnerKO]

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[sco]

I'm squarely in the keep Zach camp, but if Mia turns to us in consolation (https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article248503790.html), I think Herro/Robinson plus filler might be enough.

[thedarkstark]

I'd like to trade all of the "fans" who think the Zach Lavine is the reason the Bulls are losing and want to go back to tanking.

[Stratmaster]

Nothing but facts back when I posted this - but the same can't be said about your hindsight-fueled projection that he'll be at 38% by the end of the season. He might, he might not. Is LaVine immune to bad shooting seasons?

That wasn't really my point, though. That post was supposed to be 50% humor and 50% fact - pointing out that his volume was preposterous for a guy who wasn't hitting. And it still is.

Overall, Zach has been OK though, if we ignore the boneheaded on-ball decisions late in games. So no need to get sensitive! I'm firmly in "Camp LaVine" these days.

Wanted to give you an update. Zach is now shooting 39.6% from 3 on 9.6 attempts per game.

Looks like the only problem was that he wasn't taking enough of them.

No idea why you keep returning to an old post that was 100% factually correct at that point. He was shooting like crap then. He's not right now! :shrug:

(He's still not bringing wins, though. No, I didn't move the goalposts - somebody had hidden them and pretended they didn't exist. I just brought them back to daylight.)

Anyway... if we can't talk about how a player is doing at a given moment, it's gonna be hard to discuss anything. Yes, most things will return to the mean with time... so maybe we should just say that Zach won't lead us into the playoffs this season either and leave it at that.

Because you posted it to try to make some, inexplicable point. Or were you thinking this was a stat page? It was a bull, agenda post. Own it and I will quit pushing it back at you. Keep saying "it was 100% factual at the time" as if that means anything and I will keep pointing out how off target it was, particularly since you chose to attack me back because someday I might be proven wrong, regardless of how unlikely that is.

Still not bringing wins? You mean Zach can't carry Coby White, WCJ and Lauri on his shoulders to the playoffs? Yes, I am sure the reason the Bulls aren't winning is because of the best player on the team who has been over-performing expectations. Certainly couldn't be the 3 top 10 draft choices brought in to "help" him who have all been under-performing expectations, right?

What a joke.

[Louri]

Bulls biggest win this season was against Portland on roadtrip.. Lavine did just 18 points with season high 9 assists.

After that? Zach has scored over 32 in next 4 games and Bulls is 0-4 in those.