Shams: Patrick Williams to sign 5/90 deal

[dougthonus]

Actually, his QO was 13 mil. So its more like he got a 5 mil bump.

Fair enough, though if we are then being very precise, the years really matter too (towards the original point of my reply that this offer was somehow similar to his QO and that him taking the QO was a comparable outcome), and we offered him a guaranteed 90 vs a guaranteed 13.

If he didn't have competing offers in the market, he'd almost certainly take 4/50 over 1/13 despite it being lower AAV.

[MrSparkle]

I also for the life of me couldn’t understand the 5y guarantee. This FO is delusional.

He showed NO tangible results in 4y- closing multiple seasons and off-seasons with injuries. Outplayed by vet min help. Had him where you wanted him with the market- dried up money and a lackluster season.

AKME are a clinic of incompetency. Pat should’ve been a $13m qo.

[KissedByaRose1]

If you seriously still think there's any untapped potential in P-Will i have a bridge to sell you. Matas got 9 rebounds in 22 minutes last night. The last time P-Will recorded 9 or more rebounds was 12/6/2023.

I understand the league is now about paying guys what they can become but in 221 career NBA games he's shown nothing at all to suggest he can be a consistent rotation player on a winning team. Low motor, low focus level, sloppy handles and is allergic to rebounding. This sucks and i'm tired of giving this bum minutes. Terry/Phillips/Matas should all be ahead of him in the rotation.

[MrSparkle]

P-Will’s soft mannerisms and on-court demeanor remind me entirely of E-Curry. Been my position-less comparison for years.

Some young quiet shy guys end up being bball killers (Rose, Kawhi). But PW has all the physical gifts, a nice attitude, but no competitive juice. I think pandemic year something clicked and he was on some high, but it’s gone. He doesn’t look like he loves/breathes basketball. It’s all mechanics, and the NBA game moves way too fast for a slow thinker. The fact that his 3P release is still as slow as it was 4y ago is criminal. Back to sub-10 ppg average on a team needing PPG production.

I’d have no problem with him on $6M, but he does not deserve more money than Ayo or Jalen Smith. I’m afraid he’s gonna be a salary burden in 2028.

[sco]

P-Will’s soft mannerisms and on-court demeanor remind me entirely of E-Curry. Been my position-less comparison for years.

Some young quiet shy guys end up being bball killers (Rose, Kawhi). But PW has all the physical gifts, a nice attitude, but no competitive juice. I think pandemic year something clicked and he was on some high, but it’s gone. He doesn’t look like he loves/breathes basketball. It’s all mechanics, and the NBA game moves way too fast for a slow thinker. The fact that his 3P release is still as slow as it was 4y ago is criminal. Back to sub-10 ppg average on a team needing PPG production.

I’d have no problem with him on $6M, but he does not deserve more money than Ayo or Jalen Smith. I’m afraid he’s gonna be a salary burden in 2028.

See I disagree with the point that he lacks competitive juice. I have definitely seen a big uptick in his offensive aggressiveness. IMO, there has been this assumption that he is physically impressive with inherent skills, if only the were more aggresive. I think that just isn't true, he really hasn't shown me anything skillwise or athletically (despite his trying to this season).

[madvillian]

His two big issues just haven't been solved. Lack of body control and lack of handle. His aggression has been fine this season imo he's just not where he needs to be skills or athletic wise by this time in his career. He should have been able to improve his handle and finishing by now.

[MrSparkle]

P-Will’s soft mannerisms and on-court demeanor remind me entirely of E-Curry. Been my position-less comparison for years.

Some young quiet shy guys end up being bball killers (Rose, Kawhi). But PW has all the physical gifts, a nice attitude, but no competitive juice. I think pandemic year something clicked and he was on some high, but it’s gone. He doesn’t look like he loves/breathes basketball. It’s all mechanics, and the NBA game moves way too fast for a slow thinker. The fact that his 3P release is still as slow as it was 4y ago is criminal. Back to sub-10 ppg average on a team needing PPG production.

I’d have no problem with him on $6M, but he does not deserve more money than Ayo or Jalen Smith. I’m afraid he’s gonna be a salary burden in 2028.

See I disagree with the point that he lacks competitive juice. I have definitely seen a big uptick in his offensive aggressiveness. IMO, there has been this assumption that he is physically impressive with inherent skills, if only the were more aggresive. I think that just isn't true, he really hasn't shown me anything skillwise or athletically (despite his trying to this season).

Rebounds are about quick reflexes, anticipation, and competitiveness. Which Eddy and Pat share common traits for.

But no doubt, the guy's handles suck. He loses the ball in comical fashions when driving against PFs.

[cocktailswith_2short]

He's way overpaid and we over drafted him . Theres never going to be warm feels around this guy . He will play a long time and might excel on a different team but will never live up to his draft status and money making .

[The Box Office]

Pat Williams should have never been drafted in the 1st round. When I scouted him, he was clearly 2nd round material. And he still is today.

For the posters remaining who are defending Pat; why? Save your dignity. It was a "not so smart" decision to sign him to this deal. Ridiculous deal.

[League Circles]

We def overpaid him but I don't think he's particularly bad as a 5th option starter.

[Chi town]

His two big issues just haven't been solved. Lack of body control and lack of handle. His aggression has been fine this season imo he's just not where he needs to be skills or athletic wise by this time in his career. He should have been able to improve his handle and finishing by now.

He’s a below the rim player that doesn’t know how to pump fake or use his body to creat contact and get FTs or buckets.

The handle is just atrocious. Worst in the league for a wing.

[Hangtime84]

His two big issues just haven't been solved. Lack of body control and lack of handle. His aggression has been fine this season imo he's just not where he needs to be skills or athletic wise by this time in his career. He should have been able to improve his handle and finishing by now.

Opportunities he needs a consistent ones. That’s how players grow. Zach isn’t the greatest at this either.

Julius Randle is similar example of a player allowed to grow through mistakes.

[Ballerkingn23]

I still would like for Billy to feature the kid some. We don't run no plays the kid or anything. Its like he's phased out the offense completely and just a 3pt spot up shooter at best. Which I think is a undervaluing of his true talent. Because this kid was the 4th pick and has been training with some of the best trainers in his career. So I think something more is there we just have to give him a full feature to really know for sure.

So I would love for us to give him 10 shots a game sample size over a 5-10 game stretch before we completely write him off. Bec as of now it's a waste of a draft pick and a overpay imo at this point otherwise. Like why is he even on this team, we should look to flip him if he's not in the future plans given we've moved on Demar, and looking to do the same with Zach and Vuc.

[sco]

I still would like for Billy to feature the kid some. We don't run no plays the kid or anything. Its like he's phased out the offense completely and just a 3pt spot up shooter at best. Which I think is a undervaluing of his true talent. Because this kid was the 4th pick and has been training with some of the best trainers in his career. So I think something more is there we just have to give him a full feature to really know for sure.

So I would love for us to give him 10 shots a game sample size over a 5-10 game stretch before we completely write him off. Bec as of now it's a waste of a draft pick and a overpay imo at this point otherwise. Like why is he even on this team, we should look to flip him if he's not in the future plans given we've moved on Demar, and looking to do the same with Zach and Vuc.

I don't mind him getting 10 shots a game, but there needs to be a recognition that HE CANNOT DRIBBLE WITH THE BALL OR TRY TO DUNK AT THE RIM. Maybe down the road, but you don't run plays for perhaps the absolute worst player in the entire NBA at those 2 skills. He has a real problem attacking off the dribble. I know the coaching staff has a problem telling him not to do those things anymore because the worked for his whole career trying to get him to be aggressive, and this year, he's trying and it's a huge problem for the aforementioned reason. I think right now he should be limited to 3pt shots and 2pt shots outside the paint.

[madvillian]

His two big issues just haven't been solved. Lack of body control and lack of handle. His aggression has been fine this season imo he's just not where he needs to be skills or athletic wise by this time in his career. He should have been able to improve his handle and finishing by now.

Opportunities he needs a consistent ones. That’s how players grow. Zach isn’t the greatest at this either.

Julius Randle is similar example of a player allowed to grow through mistakes.

That's a really good example but not one I'm sure is that repeatable. We'll see. Pat's stock is neutral so far imo. He's making an impact on defense but he's still a total WIP outside his three point shot on the other end. I see him going up with two hands to dunk more, which is a small step in the right direction.

[GoBlue72391]

I still would like for Billy to feature the kid some. We don't run no plays the kid or anything. Its like he's phased out the offense completely and just a 3pt spot up shooter at best. Which I think is a undervaluing of his true talent. Because this kid was the 4th pick and has been training with some of the best trainers in his career. So I think something more is there we just have to give him a full feature to really know for sure.

So I would love for us to give him 10 shots a game sample size over a 5-10 game stretch before we completely write him off. Bec as of now it's a waste of a draft pick and a overpay imo at this point otherwise. Like why is he even on this team, we should look to flip him if he's not in the future plans given we've moved on Demar, and looking to do the same with Zach and Vuc.

Why would you run plays for a guy who can't dribble, can't create, can't finish, and can't post up? That would be kinda weird.

He's a spot-up 3-point shooter at best because...he's a spot-up 3-point shooter at best. He's not capable of doing much more than that.

People put too much stock into the 4th pick thing. Remove that label and view him objectively as a player. Pretend he was a late lottery pick.

[FriedRise]

Dude is a bust. Straight up. He’s a bench role player.

Jalen Smith should be starting instead of Williams.

If they're actually serious about winning, there's been quite a few players on the Bulls roster the last few years who should've started instead of Williams. But the FO will never allow that because Pat is their prized pick and starting journeymen like Javonte Green (whose impact Pat will never reach) or Derrick Jones Jr (started for the Mavs all season including the NBA finals) would basically be an admission of failure.

[HomoSapien]

We could trade the entire roster to try and give Pat more looks and he would still find a way to average 9.7 ppg.

The biggest red flag to me were Thad Young's comments about him early on about trying to challenge him to be a star. He just doesn't have the personality. When we drafted him, someone asked why Williams couldn't be the next Jimmy Butler. I think it was fleet who said something along the lines of "Jimmy Butler grew up homeless and plays like it. Patrick Williams grew up working at his grandma's flower shop, and plays like it." One of my all-time favorite quotes.

He might settle into being a solid 5th starter or so, but it'll never be worth it if it routinely takes him 20 games to get going.

[Indomitable]

We could trade the entire roster to try and give Pat more looks and he would still find a way to average 9.7 ppg.

The biggest red flag to me were Thad Young's comments about him early on about trying to challenge him to be a star. He just doesn't have the personality. When we drafted him, someone asked why Williams couldn't be the next Jimmy Butler. I think it was fleet who said something along the lines of "Jimmy Butler grew up homeless and plays like it. Patrick Williams grew up working at his grandma's flower shop, and plays like it." One of my all-time favorite quotes.

He might settle into being a solid 5th starter or so, but it'll never be worth it if it routinely takes him 20 games to get going.

Hunger matters

[Indomitable]

Actually, his QO was 13 mil. So its more like he got a 5 mil bump.

Fair enough, though if we are then being very precise, the years really matter too (towards the original point of my reply that this offer was somehow similar to his QO and that him taking the QO was a comparable outcome), and we offered him a guaranteed 90 vs a guaranteed 13.

If he didn't have competing offers in the market, he'd almost certainly take 4/50 over 1/13 despite it being lower AAV.

AK refuses to move on.