LaVine traded to the Kings as part of 3 team deal (Huerter, Tre Jones to Bulls)

[League Circles]

A true impact player is one of those top 10 players you need to win a title.

I disagree. That would suggest that virtually every player in the league has no impact on his team's chances. I mean it's obviously semantics, but literally nobody reserves the term "impact player" for only the top superstars in the league.

I mean you can have lets say Jue Holiday and on the right team be impactful to winning, but if he is your best player you aren't going far.

Yeah, that would make him an impact player. He'd have a (positive) impact on his team.

[Betta Bulleavit]

I thought everyone knew this?

There are a handful of superstars in the league. I think most people would say there are more like 100+ "impact" players.

A true impact player is one of those top 10 players you need to win a title.

I can’t say that I fully agree here.

I do think there is a very elite group of players that are so good that any team you put them on instantly becomes a contender as long as they’re healthy. In my opinion, there are only 8-10 of those guys in the league. With that said, just because a player doesn’t fall into that group doesn’t mean they aren’t impact players. An impact player is a player that you can build around. They may not be good enough to put an entire franchise on their shoulders and carry them to the promised land. But you can win with them if you build the roster right. There’s probably another 25 or so such players that fall into this category. The next category are your rotational players, which there are lots of. After that, you have your depth level players.

Zach, probably falls in the category of a fringe impact player at this point.

[Dan Z]

I bet someone picks up Craig and Duarte. What about Denver? Or Philly? For one of them, not both.

[dougthonus]

To me its more of first impressions. That buys you a lot in the league but it doesn't mean you are perfect. His first impression was big and bold albeit risky,30 games into it the next season, we thought high of AK. Till the wheels fell off. If no one got hurt, people would feel completely different about AKME.

I did not like him from the jump and thought the vuc trade was horrible right away, and think the idea that everyone would stay healthy based on two guys in their mid 30s and 2 guys whom have had large injury problems over their careers seemed like a really poorly thought out hope.

I think of it like Nico Harrison(Mavs GM) but in reverse. Nico has had a roller coaster of bad to good, back to poor decisions back to amazing. And now this last decision has made everyone hate his guts. Probably forever.

So right now this is part 2 for AKME. How will he handle this next rebuild and what decisions will he make to makes us better for the long run.

4 years, and there's nothing amazing AKME has done. He's been below average in literally every facet of his job. I don't know what he'd need to do to create faith in him for me, but it would have to be pretty significant.

[SfBull]

It really would have been nice to get anything that seemed like a longer-term piece. I'm a fan of looking at building pieces as having rocks to build the foundation off of. We are down to long term contracts with Buz-Williams-Terry-Smith and Phillips.

If you laid it out as

1 Open-Open
2 Open-Open
3 Open-Terry-Phillips
4 Buz-Williams
5 Open-Smith

You see who you want to play more. Williams has been much better coming off the bench. Terry I finding his role as a complimentary rotational wing. Smith is already what you want in a depth big. Phillips is a complete unknown IMO.

I think you probably have 2 of your 3-4 long term guys at the Forward rotation.

Excited to see what piece we add in the draft.

I'm assuming our lotto spot is 7

Terry is finding his way as a bust, yesterday's game showed it up again.

Eh... I don't know if you can consider the 18th pick to be a bust. He's also only 22 and has shown enough flashes to make me think he has a chance of developing into a decent roleplayer.

He has played a lot of bad games lately

[kodo]

A true impact player is one of those top 10 players you need to win a title.

I disagree. That would suggest that virtually every player in the league has no impact on his team's chances. I mean it's obviously semantics, but literally nobody reserves the term "impact player" for only the top superstars in the league.

I mean you can have lets say Jue Holiday and on the right team be impactful to winning, but if he is your best player you aren't going far.

Definitely. When Jrue Holiday had both prime healthy Anthony Davis & Julius Randle and he failed to lead the Pelicans to even make the playoffs.

Anthony Davis: 26 ppg 12 rpg 2.4 bpg
Randle: 21 ppg 9 rpg

By net rating, that Pelicans team was worse when Holiday played and he was the team's highest paid player. He's a great supporting player obviously, but he was a failure as a lead player.

[_txchilibowl_]

I think the trade return speaks for itself. Clearly, other GMs don't view Lavine as a positive, impact acquisition.

[League Circles]

I disagree. That would suggest that virtually every player in the league has no impact on his team's chances. I mean it's obviously semantics, but literally nobody reserves the term "impact player" for only the top superstars in the league.

I mean you can have lets say Jue Holiday and on the right team be impactful to winning, but if he is your best player you aren't going far.

Definitely. When Jrue Holiday had both prime healthy Anthony Davis & Julius Randle and he failed to lead the Pelicans to even make the playoffs.

Anthony Davis: 26 ppg 12 rpg 2.4 bpg
Randle: 21 ppg 9 rpg

By net rating, that Pelicans team was worse when Holiday played and he was the team's highest paid player. He's a great supporting player obviously, but he was a failure as a lead player.

I mean, Jrue Holiday is the current starting PG for the 3rd best team in the league. After he left the Pelicans he was the starting PG for the NBA champion Bucks. He's been a multiple time all star and has finished in the top 8 for DPOY in 5 of the last 7 years.

[Betta Bulleavit]

I think the trade return speaks for itself. Clearly, other GMs don't view Lavine as a positive, impact acquisition.

Once you consider the salary….I’d say you’re right. Zach’s salary makes it to where you can’t give up long term assets for him because he is a player that you aim to add to something rather than being a guy you can build around.

[SfBull]

One thing to add that, given our very clearly incompetent FO, can’t be overlooked. Which is that they didn’t completely blow it and trade him for that Denver package or some other desperate package to try to stay in the “playoff picture.”

We dodged a bullet that AK is perfectly capable of firing. Thank god for that. When AK is your GM, “it could have been a lot worse” isn’t something to sneeze at. Because it really, really could have been.

Arturas Karsinovas: At least he’s not Nico Harrison.

He's worse

[WesPeace]

Craig just waived is also mind boggling.. couldnt even get late pick for him? Daaamn..

Why would we be able to get any type of pick for Craig? I feel like we’ve known for a while that Craig would be one of the first guys cut for roster space.

Huh? I would expect THT, Duarte or even Carter to get cut before Craig.. in last 3 games he got a chance he played great! Craig was best of them, starting PF on this team,if we were competing..

[nitetrain8603]

Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that AK has been good or even “okay” at his job. I’m just saying that I think he got this particular action right. Albeit a year too late.

Yeah, I think this was a good decision in a vacuum. We will see what other decisions are made this trade deadline and the off-season to see if the overall direction seems good or bad in a big picture sense.

I don't think AK has missed on every decision he has made (FWIW), there are some clear wins. I think the problem is he has not shown that holistically he knows what he is doing at a strategic level, and so he doesn't package his decisions into a cohesive strategy that he can execute on either due to the strategy being poorly thought out and unreasonable or because he's not consistently good enough at execution to pull it off (or unfortunately, my view is both, that he's generally deficient in both strategy and execution which doesn't mean 100% wrong in both areas but certainly below average in both).

I agree that he's made some good moves, just not enough. I was a huge fan of them their first year. I even gave them the benefit once Lonzo went down.

I think they are able to think on a strategic level, but I don't believe they know how to pivot from a good idea. I started getting concerned two offseasons ago when they refused to make changes after saying they needed them. Instead, they sign Jevon Carter and go after Torrey Craig. I could argue that DJJ was better for them. I, then, stopped believing last trade deadline.

[Jcool0]

I mean you can have lets say Jue Holiday and on the right team be impactful to winning, but if he is your best player you aren't going far.

Definitely. When Jrue Holiday had both prime healthy Anthony Davis & Julius Randle and he failed to lead the Pelicans to even make the playoffs.

Anthony Davis: 26 ppg 12 rpg 2.4 bpg
Randle: 21 ppg 9 rpg

By net rating, that Pelicans team was worse when Holiday played and he was the team's highest paid player. He's a great supporting player obviously, but he was a failure as a lead player.

I mean, Jrue Holiday is the current starting PG for the 3rd best team in the league. After he left the Pelicans he was the starting PG for the NBA champion Bucks. He's been a multiple time all star and has finished in the top 8 for DPOY in 5 of the last 7 years.

And he would of been 100x better next to Lavine then DeRozen.

[League Circles]

Definitely. When Jrue Holiday had both prime healthy Anthony Davis & Julius Randle and he failed to lead the Pelicans to even make the playoffs.

Anthony Davis: 26 ppg 12 rpg 2.4 bpg
Randle: 21 ppg 9 rpg

By net rating, that Pelicans team was worse when Holiday played and he was the team's highest paid player. He's a great supporting player obviously, but he was a failure as a lead player.

I mean, Jrue Holiday is the current starting PG for the 3rd best team in the league. After he left the Pelicans he was the starting PG for the NBA champion Bucks. He's been a multiple time all star and has finished in the top 8 for DPOY in 5 of the last 7 years.

And he would of been 100x better next to Lavine then DeRozen.

Cool, so we agree that he's an impact player, and that therefore there are a bunch of impact players.

[Jcool0]

I mean, Jrue Holiday is the current starting PG for the 3rd best team in the league. After he left the Pelicans he was the starting PG for the NBA champion Bucks. He's been a multiple time all star and has finished in the top 8 for DPOY in 5 of the last 7 years.

And he would of been 100x better next to Lavine then DeRozen.

Cool, so we agree that he's an impact player, and that therefore there are a bunch of impact players.

I think you are a little behind here. I have already said there are many net positive player in this league. I see impact as leading to a title.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Craig just waived is also mind boggling.. couldnt even get late pick for him? Daaamn..

Why would we be able to get any type of pick for Craig? I feel like we’ve known for a while that Craig would be one of the first guys cut for roster space.

Huh? I would expect THT, Duarte or even Carter to get cut before Craig.. in last 3 games he got a chance he played great! Craig was best of them, starting PF on this team,if we were competing..

Idk..I think you are grossly overvaluing Craig. Carter wasn’t going to get cut because (sadly) he makes too much. Duarte/Craig and perhaps THT. Those have always been the prime cut candidates. Two of them were cut today.

[Ben Wilson25]

All the happiness that they committed to a direction (rebuilding) and cleaned up the books is going to go away this summer when they sign Giddey to a 4/100 deal. I’d be shocked if they don’t go right back to “re-tooling”.

[HomoSapien]

One thing to add that, given our very clearly incompetent FO, can’t be overlooked. Which is that they didn’t completely blow it and trade him for that Denver package or some other desperate package to try to stay in the “playoff picture.”

We dodged a bullet that AK is perfectly capable of firing. Thank god for that. When AK is your GM, “it could have been a lot worse” isn’t something to sneeze at. Because it really, really could have been.

Arturas Karsinovas: At least he’s not Nico Harrison.

I've mentioned it a few times, but I think the most overlooked part of this trade is that we didn't just guarantee our pick for this year but we've guaranteed that we'll have it (or have it available in trade) through 2027. I think there was a solid chance we would have retained it with Zach/Vuc on the roster (and most likely for sure with either one of them off of it), but we also don't have to worry about losing it later with the restrictions becoming lower. It's hard to compliment them for that because they got themselves into that mess, but I think push come to shove getting full control of the Spurs pick is probably more advantageous than getting like a random first-round pick in the 20s range.

[dice]

8 months later, we get back a pick that would’ve likely conveyed to SAS in the lottery sometime in the next three seasons. Is it unsatisfying that it’s our own pick? Absolutely. But that’s a sin of a previous trade, not this one.

makes no damn difference that the draft pick technically still belonged to the bulls. that thing was as good as gone

Sure it does... The likelihood that we would need to have convey it would have been slim. So, in effect 'undid' the past mistake by doubling down and making another. 2 wrongs to make a 'right'.

huh? you expect the bulls were going to finish in the bottom 8 next year AND 2027? very unlikely. hell, they might have conveyed it THIS season had they not made the trade

We rushed to make this deal so we would likely not needed to worry about it in year 3.

is lavine's contract favorable? of course not. getting rid of it is a benefit
is securing the draft pick favorable? of course
is getting worse this season and next a benefit? yes and yes

the only conceivable way this MIGHT have been better is a contender desperate for scoring being willing to give up 2 first rounders. obviously that was not on the table this year. waiting and hoping rather than tanking would be very bad strategy. particularly given lavine's penchant for injury. and believe it or not, he's about to turn 30. a hard falloff may well be imminent

the bulls were very lucky to find a deal w/ no downside at all. thumbing their nose at another comeback season by lavine would have been foolish

and how many people besides me around here were saying that the derozan trade was a mistake at the time? not too damn many. besides which, that trade has no bearing on any evaluation of THIS trade

[jordanwilliams6]

One thing to add that, given our very clearly incompetent FO, can’t be overlooked. Which is that they didn’t completely blow it and trade him for that Denver package or some other desperate package to try to stay in the “playoff picture.”

We dodged a bullet that AK is perfectly capable of firing. Thank god for that. When AK is your GM, “it could have been a lot worse” isn’t something to sneeze at. Because it really, really could have been.

Arturas Karsinovas: At least he’s not Nico Harrison.

I've mentioned it a few times, but I think the most overlooked part of this trade is that we didn't just guarantee our pick for this year but we've guaranteed that we'll have it (or have it available in trade) through 2027. I think there was a solid chance we would have retained it with Zach/Vuc on the roster (and most likely for sure with either one of them off of it), but we also don't have to worry about losing it later with the restrictions becoming lower. It's hard to compliment them for that because they got themselves into that mess, but I think push come to shove getting full control of the Spurs pick is probably more advantageous than getting like a random first-round pick in the 20s range.

If we traded say Zach, Vuc & Coby, I can't see any conceivable way that we would've given the Spurs that pick.

No matter who we draft, they aren't taking us out of the bottom 8 with a roster built around Ayo, Giddey, Pat, Smith & Matas. That's comfortably a bottom 5 team for the next two seasons. I get the 'safety' but to me we were always keeping the pick by trading the veterans.