Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[Dajody10]

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/7/71/1195228/jimmy-butler-wants-everyone-page-coach-derrick-rose-included

End of story, this is the obvious narrative folks - wake up and face reality.

I would not be surprised one bit if it turned out that you are Joe Cowley.

LOL! I do agree with a lot of his opinions - anything but KC Johnson, who might as well work for the Bulls at this point.

[Rerisen]

No, it isn't human nature. Not for professionals at whatever it is they choose to do. Jimmy Butler has mentioned others in the plural sense, insinuating it isn't just rose. He has turned into a bad teammate. He wants to be a leader, but he is not a leader. He refuses to adapt his play to the new coach, while expecting everyone else to. Honestly, if he would just stfu and keep family business family business this can still go away. His holier than thou attitude can't sit well with many of the players, the coaching staff, or the front office; and it shouldn't.

Thing is if Jimmy tries to play team ball, moves the ball, but never gets it back, and no one else buys in, we'll probably lose more games than we have been so far.

Because while iso-ball is not good for a whole game, if its what 90% of the offense is doing anyway, then Butler is the best we have at it.

Bit of a chicken vs egg thing here.

[PMONSTER]

I'm kinda embarrassed at this. There is a difference between saying the team needs to work harder and saying the coach needs to coach better. If you trashing Derrick behind his back, then talking like this about Fred, then what is stopping him from going after management?

I was talking to somebody about this and they said "Wow. You would think he was LeBron."

[Dajody10]

No, it isn't human nature. Not for professionals at whatever it is they choose to do. Jimmy Butler has mentioned others in the plural sense, insinuating it isn't just rose. He has turned into a bad teammate. He wants to be a leader, but he is not a leader. He refuses to adapt his play to the new coach, while expecting everyone else to. Honestly, if he would just stfu and keep family business family business this can still go away. His holier than thou attitude can't sit well with many of the players, the coaching staff, or the front office; and it shouldn't.

Thing is if Jimmy tries to play team ball, moves the ball, but never gets it back, and no one else buys in, we'll probably lose more games than we have been so far.

Because while iso-ball is not good for a whole game, if its what 90% of the offense is doing anyway, then Butler is the best we have at it.

Bit of a chicken vs egg thing here.

Correct, and the only player capable of playing team first, up and down basketball is Rose because he can break down the defense whenever he wants. The problem, however, is he only feels like breaking down the defense half the time these days.

[Stratmaster]

No, it isn't human nature. Not for professionals at whatever it is they choose to do. Jimmy Butler has mentioned others in the plural sense, insinuating it isn't just rose. He has turned into a bad teammate. He wants to be a leader, but he is not a leader. He refuses to adapt his play to the new coach, while expecting everyone else to. Honestly, if he would just stfu and keep family business family business this can still go away. His holier than thou attitude can't sit well with many of the players, the coaching staff, or the front office; and it shouldn't.

Thing is if Jimmy tries to play team ball, moves the ball, but never gets it back, and no one else buys in, we'll probably lose more games than we have been so far.

Because while iso-ball is not good for a whole game, if its what 90% of the offense is doing anyway, then Butler is the best we have at it.

Bit of a chicken vs egg thing here.

"It might not work, therefore I won't try it. Then I will call out the coach for not pushing it harder".

Makes perfect sense.

Maybe he should just come out and tell the world he doesn't believe in the coach or his system...he more or less has hinted at it from every direction. He went this far...may as well just say it and ask for a trade. He seems to think he is a big enough superstar that if he complains about it publicly the front office will just jettison the brand new coach; or that the new coach will succumb and let Jimmy dictate how they should play.

[the ultimates]

Is Jimmy going to hold himself personally accountable for turning every possession into an isolation? Is he going to go to Fred and say put me on the bench when he runs the shot clock down continuously? He damn sure didn't have a problem letting the world know he didn't want to be taken out when he had it going against the Celtics. If he wants to lead he needs to lead by example. No more throwing coaches and teammates under the bus then casually mention yourself being part of the problem. He knows the media isn't going to focus on that because he is playing decent ball as an individual. Make no mistake what Jimmy said only helps himself it doesn't help the team.

[Stratmaster]

Is Jimmy going to hold himself personally accountable for turning every possession into an isolation? Is he going to go to Fred and say put me on the bench when he runs the shot clock down continuously? He damn sure didn't have a problem letting the world know he didn't want to be taken out when he had it going against the Celtics. If he wants to lead he needs to lead by example. No more throwing coaches and teammates under the bus then casually mention yourself being part of the problem. He knows the media isn't going to focus on that because he is playing decent ball as an individual. Make no mistake what Jimmy said only helps himself it doesn't help the team.

+1 And there is the crux of my distaste. Every single comment Jimmy has made is self-serving. Not team-serving. Not organization-serving. Not helping his new head coach. Just pointing out "I know what we need to do but no one else will do it". "I try hard but no one else is trying".

[Rerisen]

"It might not work, therefore I won't try it. Then I will call out the coach for not pushing it harder".

Makes perfect sense.

Maybe he should just come out and tell the world he doesn't believe in the coach or his system...he more or less has hinted at it from every direction. He went this far...may as well just say it and ask for a trade. He seems to think he is a big enough superstar that if he complains about it publicly the front office will just jettison the brand new coach; or that the new coach will succumb and let Jimmy dictate how they should play.

I'm not sure he hasn't tried it some games.

Jimmy has had some good facilitating games, and games where he makes quicker decisions.

But he doesn't seem to have the leverage or just plan ball usage, to bring about the change himself.

Ultimately the buck does stop at Fred, not Jimmy.

[Dajody10]

The fact that Butler doesn't like Rose's work ethic has nothing to do with your claim that the rest of the players effort is somehow based on Rose's effort.

So when LeBron quit on the Cavs in 2010, what did the rest of the team do - they quit. When Kobe quit on the Lakers in 2007 against Phoenix what did the rest of the team do, they quit. When Shaq and Kobe went back and forth, putting their personal priorities ahead of the team, what happened, the team followed and they got destroyed by the Pistons. Teams follow the lead of the stars - this is how sports work. Butler knows this, if nobody is going to hold Rose accountable to play hard nightly, why should the other guys have to worry either. This is human nature for christ sake, how this is even an argument is mindbloggling.

No, it isn't human nature. Not for professionals at whatever it is they choose to do. Jimmy Butler has mentioned others in the plural sense, insinuating it isn't just rose. He has turned into a bad teammate. He wants to be a leader, but he is not a leader. He refuses to adapt his play to the new coach, while expecting everyone else to. Honestly, if he would just stfu and keep family business family business this can still go away. His holier than thou attitude can't sit well with many of the players, the coaching staff, or the front office; and it shouldn't.

Just because you think professional athletes should act a certain way does not make it reality. Reality is the fact that human nature is to follow a leader, some people lead, and some people follow. In sports, leadership is developed based on performance, the best players are usually the leaders and the best players absolutely dictate the temperament of the team. The team used to have Rose's older temperament, which was attacking, aggressive, razor focused. Since Rose came back in 2014, his mindset was to play passively, be careful, avoid injuries to ensure he is healthy come playoff time. This thought process was developed by both Rose and the organization. The rest of the team followed - and now we're stuck with this.

[Rerisen]

For one thing we are running a lot more Rose/Gasol PnR this year and it hasn't been nearly as effective as last year.

Because Pau's efficiency is in the gutter this year, and Rose can't finish well either when he takes it all the way.

Virtually never do any other players see action off this play either. It's either some contested runner by Rose in the lane, or kick back out to Pau, who isn't hitting that jumper as well this year, and its not highly efficient offense in general.

Focusing offense around our two inefficient volume scorers is not smart. When we have Jimmy, Doug, even Snell open for threes.

[TheGOATRises007]

Butler should focus more on winning some of these individual match-ups he's lost lately.

I really hope this is the last of his "media tirades", because it just hurts the entire team.

[Rerisen]

I think Thibs did a better job of integrating Butler in the offense non-iso.

While we slipped into periods of ISO last year too, when the offense was working, Butler was getting it in places inside the arc, to make quicker decisions. In the post, on the move, etc.

The only plays that have been good for Butler this year has been the backdoors and slips for lobs he gets from Pau or Jo.

[Stratmaster]

"It might not work, therefore I won't try it. Then I will call out the coach for not pushing it harder".

Makes perfect sense.

Maybe he should just come out and tell the world he doesn't believe in the coach or his system...he more or less has hinted at it from every direction. He went this far...may as well just say it and ask for a trade. He seems to think he is a big enough superstar that if he complains about it publicly the front office will just jettison the brand new coach; or that the new coach will succumb and let Jimmy dictate how they should play.

I'm not sure he hasn't tried it some games.

Jimmy has had some good facilitating games, and games where he makes quicker decisions.

But he doesn't seem to have the leverage or just plan ball usage, to bring about the change himself.

Ultimately the buck does stop at Fred, not Jimmy.

Yes, it does. He is in his 26th game and his pompous "leader" has chosen to sabotage his credibility in the press. Hoiberg owns final responsibility for the performance of the team...and so far they are .600 with a throwaway loss in a back to back after a 4ot game where he did what everyone has been begging...keep players healthy. I would say he has earned some time and the benefit of the doubt...well, from everyone except his best player who has decided he can't allow that to happen.

[TheGOATRises007]

I think Thibs did a better job of integrating Butler in the offense non-iso.

While we slipped into periods of ISO last year too, when the offense was working, Butler was getting it in places inside the arc, to make quicker decisions. In the post, on the move, etc.

The only plays that have been good for Butler this year has been the backdoors and slips for lobs he gets from Pau or Jo.

We need Butler in those positions more often.

He's at his best when he gets the ball and quickly decides what to do.

I know his isolation stats are good, but it's not a recipe for success imo.

[Stratmaster]

I think Thibs did a better job of integrating Butler in the offense non-iso.

While we slipped into periods of ISO last year too, when the offense was working, Butler was getting it in places inside the arc, to make quicker decisions. In the post, on the move, etc.

The only plays that have been good for Butler this year has been the backdoors and slips for lobs he gets from Pau or Jo.

I agree with this. This is valid and poignant criticism. Hoiberg is slowly abandoning thoughts of a complete makeover of the Bulls offense. He is slowly realizing that the personnel aren't right for that type of play. Hoiberg has not proven anything to me yet.

[Dajody10]

"It might not work, therefore I won't try it. Then I will call out the coach for not pushing it harder".

Makes perfect sense.

Maybe he should just come out and tell the world he doesn't believe in the coach or his system...he more or less has hinted at it from every direction. He went this far...may as well just say it and ask for a trade. He seems to think he is a big enough superstar that if he complains about it publicly the front office will just jettison the brand new coach; or that the new coach will succumb and let Jimmy dictate how they should play.

I'm not sure he hasn't tried it some games.

Jimmy has had some good facilitating games, and games where he makes quicker decisions.

But he doesn't seem to have the leverage or just plan ball usage, to bring about the change himself.

Ultimately the buck does stop at Fred, not Jimmy.

Yes, it does. He is in his 26th game and his pompous "leader" has chosen to sabotage his credibility in the press. Hoiberg owns final responsibility for the performance of the team...and so far they are .600 with a throwaway loss in a back to back after a 4ot game where he did what everyone has been begging...keep players healthy. I would say he has earned some time and the benefit of the doubt...well, from everyone except his best player who has decided he can't allow that to happen.

Some say I might be Joe Crowley, and I Strat is the hidden GarPax - same rhetoric from his days on the ESPN board.

[Stratmaster]

I'm not sure he hasn't tried it some games.

Jimmy has had some good facilitating games, and games where he makes quicker decisions.

But he doesn't seem to have the leverage or just plan ball usage, to bring about the change himself.

Ultimately the buck does stop at Fred, not Jimmy.

Yes, it does. He is in his 26th game and his pompous "leader" has chosen to sabotage his credibility in the press. Hoiberg owns final responsibility for the performance of the team...and so far they are .600 with a throwaway loss in a back to back after a 4ot game where he did what everyone has been begging...keep players healthy. I would say he has earned some time and the benefit of the doubt...well, from everyone except his best player who has decided he can't allow that to happen.

Some say I might be Joe Crowley, and I Strat is the hidden GarPax - same rhetoric from his days on the ESPN board.

Where have I said a word about Gar/Pax other than that Butler should take his complaints straight to them, and then to Reinsdorf?

And no, I haven't seen anyone compare you to Joe Crowley.

[R3AL1TY]

No, it isn't human nature. Not for professionals at whatever it is they choose to do. Jimmy Butler has mentioned others in the plural sense, insinuating it isn't just rose. He has turned into a bad teammate. He wants to be a leader, but he is not a leader. He refuses to adapt his play to the new coach, while expecting everyone else to. Honestly, if he would just stfu and keep family business family business this can still go away. His holier than thou attitude can't sit well with many of the players, the coaching staff, or the front office; and it shouldn't.

Thing is if Jimmy tries to play team ball, moves the ball, but never gets it back, and no one else buys in, we'll probably lose more games than we have been so far.

Because while iso-ball is not good for a whole game, if its what 90% of the offense is doing anyway, then Butler is the best we have at it.

Bit of a chicken vs egg thing here.

"It might not work, therefore I won't try it. Then I will call out the coach for not pushing it harder".

Makes perfect sense.

Maybe he should just come out and tell the world he doesn't believe in the coach or his system...he more or less has hinted at it from every direction. He went this far...may as well just say it and ask for a trade. He seems to think he is a big enough superstar that if he complains about it publicly the front office will just jettison the brand new coach; or that the new coach will succumb and let Jimmy dictate how they should play.

Another thing to remember is Butler was struggling in the pre-season and the beginning of the season when there was less iso ball. So, I think it is plausible he may not believe in the coach's system and the coach even had to modify stuff for his iso plays. However, this isn't working for the team consistently, but it is working for Butler. Once again, a personnel problem.

[Stratmaster]

So when LeBron quit on the Cavs in 2010, what did the rest of the team do - they quit. When Kobe quit on the Lakers in 2007 against Phoenix what did the rest of the team do, they quit. When Shaq and Kobe went back and forth, putting their personal priorities ahead of the team, what happened, the team followed and they got destroyed by the Pistons. Teams follow the lead of the stars - this is how sports work. Butler knows this, if nobody is going to hold Rose accountable to play hard nightly, why should the other guys have to worry either. This is human nature for christ sake, how this is even an argument is mindbloggling.

No, it isn't human nature. Not for professionals at whatever it is they choose to do. Jimmy Butler has mentioned others in the plural sense, insinuating it isn't just rose. He has turned into a bad teammate. He wants to be a leader, but he is not a leader. He refuses to adapt his play to the new coach, while expecting everyone else to. Honestly, if he would just stfu and keep family business family business this can still go away. His holier than thou attitude can't sit well with many of the players, the coaching staff, or the front office; and it shouldn't.

Just because you think professional athletes should act a certain way does not make it reality. Reality is the fact that human nature is to follow a leader, some people lead, and some people follow. In sports, leadership is developed based on performance, the best players are usually the leaders and the best players absolutely dictate the temperament of the team. The team used to have Rose's older temperament, which was attacking, aggressive, razor focused. Since Rose came back in 2014, his mindset was to play passively, be careful, avoid injuries to ensure he is healthy come playoff time. This thought process was developed by both Rose and the organization. The rest of the team followed - and now we're stuck with this.

Butler is the leader. He said so himself.

[Stratmaster]

Thing is if Jimmy tries to play team ball, moves the ball, but never gets it back, and no one else buys in, we'll probably lose more games than we have been so far.

Because while iso-ball is not good for a whole game, if its what 90% of the offense is doing anyway, then Butler is the best we have at it.

Bit of a chicken vs egg thing here.

"It might not work, therefore I won't try it. Then I will call out the coach for not pushing it harder".

Makes perfect sense.

Maybe he should just come out and tell the world he doesn't believe in the coach or his system...he more or less has hinted at it from every direction. He went this far...may as well just say it and ask for a trade. He seems to think he is a big enough superstar that if he complains about it publicly the front office will just jettison the brand new coach; or that the new coach will succumb and let Jimmy dictate how they should play.

Another thing to remember is Butler was struggling in the pre-season when there was less iso ball. So, I think it is plausible he may not believe in the coach's system and the coach even had to modify stuff for his iso plays. However, this isn't working for the team consistently, but it is working for Butler. Once again, a personnel problem.

Yes...to the point where Mcd's unfortunate screw up to the press saying "we are putting in more plays to get the vets going" seems to be pretty telling.