Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks)

[Kukoc-Lauri]

So let’s say Bulls get healthy. Get the 7th seed and lose in 1st round in 6 games.

This summer we sign Lonzo and Lauri to 4/80.

We bring back Thad Sato and Val. Sign a vet min big.

We draft Kispert.

What does this team do next season after tasting playoffs?

Lonzo/Coby
Lavine/Temple
PW/Kispert/Val
Lauri/Thad
WCJ/Lauri/Vet

depends of PWill improvement. He is type of player who could won mip in his 3 or 4 year in Nba similar to Jimmy. He is struggling now but i am believer. He could have Og,Jimmy,Pg routhe. If Lavine and Lauri can improve with White,Carter,Williams and all hits their ceilings we would be all star trade away from being contenders. But that is big if, lot of things needs to work perfectly. Why not upside player like Greg Brown or Bj Boston instead of Kispert in that range?

[coldfish]

Man, giving Lonzo $20m per year is a sickening thought.

I sure hope all of the "Lonzo to Chicago" stuff is coming from Ball's camp. The Bulls being truly interested in him would make me question AK's competence, particularly at the price tags being thrown around.

[sco]

Man, giving Lonzo $20m per year is a sickening thought.

I sure hope all of the "Lonzo to Chicago" stuff is coming from Ball's camp. The Bulls being truly interested in him would make me question AK's competence, particularly at the price tags being thrown around.

That's why I want to trade for him. You get to try before you buy, and IIRC, we'd pick up his RFA matching rights, so we can let the market decide, and then decide to match or not.

[coldfish]

Man, giving Lonzo $20m per year is a sickening thought.

I sure hope all of the "Lonzo to Chicago" stuff is coming from Ball's camp. The Bulls being truly interested in him would make me question AK's competence, particularly at the price tags being thrown around.

That's why I want to trade for him. You get to try before you buy, and IIRC, we'd pick up his RFA matching rights, so we can let the market decide, and then decide to match or not.

I absolutely do not understand the interest. If you want someone to bring the ball up and pass it to other people, just play Satoransky.

Satoransky 15.4PER 65.1%ts 32.8%ast 7.6%r 23.4%tov
Ball 14.1PER 54.7%ts 21.6%ast 8.0%r 13.8%tov

I mean, everyone knows Sato is basically outplaying Ball, right? Just because the team is trying to force feed Coby entitlement minutes doesn't change the fact that Sato has played well when he is on the court and the team has too.

At a minimum, the difference between Sato and Ball isn't so great that he is worth $20m per year or trading assets. Just play the guy you have for half the price.

[sco]

Man, giving Lonzo $20m per year is a sickening thought.

I sure hope all of the "Lonzo to Chicago" stuff is coming from Ball's camp. The Bulls being truly interested in him would make me question AK's competence, particularly at the price tags being thrown around.

That's why I want to trade for him. You get to try before you buy, and IIRC, we'd pick up his RFA matching rights, so we can let the market decide, and then decide to match or not.

I absolutely do not understand the interest. If you want someone to bring the ball up and pass it to other people, just play Satoransky.

Satoransky 15.4PER 65.1%ts 32.8%ast 7.6%r 23.4%tov
Ball 14.1PER 54.7%ts 21.6%ast 8.0%r 13.8%tov

I mean, everyone knows Sato is basically outplaying Ball, right? Just because the team is trying to force feed Coby entitlement minutes doesn't change the fact that Sato has played well when he is on the court and the team has too.

At a minimum, the difference between Sato and Ball isn't so great that he is worth $20m per year or trading assets. Just play the guy you have for half the price.

Sato is a good distributor, but thus far has shown to be reluctant to shoot (which I never understood). I think the difference is that I (and others likely) have the perception that Ball has upside on both ends, and that's what you'd be paying for. It is the same argument (that, ironically, I argue against) with Lauri, but with Lauri, I don't want him because he is not durable. The other thing I would try with Ball, would be to play him at SF and be point forward, we could then keep Coby out there as a 2nd shooting guard.

[coldfish]

That's why I want to trade for him. You get to try before you buy, and IIRC, we'd pick up his RFA matching rights, so we can let the market decide, and then decide to match or not.

I absolutely do not understand the interest. If you want someone to bring the ball up and pass it to other people, just play Satoransky.

Satoransky 15.4PER 65.1%ts 32.8%ast 7.6%r 23.4%tov
Ball 14.1PER 54.7%ts 21.6%ast 8.0%r 13.8%tov

I mean, everyone knows Sato is basically outplaying Ball, right? Just because the team is trying to force feed Coby entitlement minutes doesn't change the fact that Sato has played well when he is on the court and the team has too.

At a minimum, the difference between Sato and Ball isn't so great that he is worth $20m per year or trading assets. Just play the guy you have for half the price.

Sato is a good distributor, but thus far has shown to be reluctant to shoot (which I never understood). I think the difference is that I (and others likely) have the perception that Ball has upside on both ends, and that's what you'd be paying for. It is the same argument (that, ironically, I argue against) with Lauri, but with Lauri, I don't want him because he is not durable. The other thing I would try with Ball, would be to play him at SF and be point forward, we could then keep Coby out there as a 2nd shooting guard.

Ball isn't a particularly good passer in the half court. People are envisioning him like some Chris Paul like passer but he isn't that guy.

When the Bulls are playing good offense, the ball is moving. There is no one dominating the ball and when they absolutely need a bucket, its Lavine. I just don't see a world where you want a PG who is dominating the ball and it improves the offense unless that guy is a superstar.

The best argument for Ball is his defense but the rest of his game isn't a great fit for the Bulls. I'm certainly not going to give up assets or a huge contract for that.

I really just don't get it. I just don't understand how someone could look at the Bulls and then look around the NBA and say "Lonzo Ball, now THAT is the guy the Bulls need."

[sco]

I absolutely do not understand the interest. If you want someone to bring the ball up and pass it to other people, just play Satoransky.

Satoransky 15.4PER 65.1%ts 32.8%ast 7.6%r 23.4%tov
Ball 14.1PER 54.7%ts 21.6%ast 8.0%r 13.8%tov

I mean, everyone knows Sato is basically outplaying Ball, right? Just because the team is trying to force feed Coby entitlement minutes doesn't change the fact that Sato has played well when he is on the court and the team has too.

At a minimum, the difference between Sato and Ball isn't so great that he is worth $20m per year or trading assets. Just play the guy you have for half the price.

Sato is a good distributor, but thus far has shown to be reluctant to shoot (which I never understood). I think the difference is that I (and others likely) have the perception that Ball has upside on both ends, and that's what you'd be paying for. It is the same argument (that, ironically, I argue against) with Lauri, but with Lauri, I don't want him because he is not durable. The other thing I would try with Ball, would be to play him at SF and be point forward, we could then keep Coby out there as a 2nd shooting guard.

Ball isn't a particularly good passer in the half court. People are envisioning him like some Chris Paul like passer but he isn't that guy.

When the Bulls are playing good offense, the ball is moving. There is no one dominating the ball and when they absolutely need a bucket, its Lavine. I just don't see a world where you want a PG who is dominating the ball and it improves the offense unless that guy is a superstar.

The best argument for Ball is his defense but the rest of his game isn't a great fit for the Bulls. I'm certainly not going to give up assets or a huge contract for that.

I really just don't get it. I just don't understand how someone could look at the Bulls and then look around the NBA and say "Lonzo Ball, now THAT is the guy the Bulls need."

Here's the way I see it. I REALLY want to dump Lauri at the deadline for either a cow (an established player - like as part of a deal to get a guy like Grant from Detroit for example), but it I can't I at least want to trade for a magic bean (a young guy with upside that fills a need). I put Ball in the latter category. I would gladly give-up Lauri for a 1/2 season try before you buy option on Ball, if there was no better deal out there.

[weneeda2guard]

If we don't want to give lauri 20 mill why the hell would we give ball 20 mill?

We would come out better giving ish Smith 5 mill for 2 years get better consistent production

[FriedRise]

If the choice is Ball vs Lauri for 20M, I'm sticking with Lauri. Yeah you gotta run a bunch of stuff to set him up, but he's such an efficient player that he just fits this team better. Lauri's worst season under one of the worst coaches in history (14.3 PER, .560 TS%) still beats Ball's best season in his career (14.1 PER, .547 TS%). This season? It's not even close.

If we're trying to squeeze out wins and not trying to have it both ways:
- Start Sato for playmaking and defense
- Use Coby as Bench Gunner Extraordinaire

Boom. You limit the Coby + Zach minutes together and have a better balance between the starters and second unit.

[coldfish]

Sato is a good distributor, but thus far has shown to be reluctant to shoot (which I never understood). I think the difference is that I (and others likely) have the perception that Ball has upside on both ends, and that's what you'd be paying for. It is the same argument (that, ironically, I argue against) with Lauri, but with Lauri, I don't want him because he is not durable. The other thing I would try with Ball, would be to play him at SF and be point forward, we could then keep Coby out there as a 2nd shooting guard.

Ball isn't a particularly good passer in the half court. People are envisioning him like some Chris Paul like passer but he isn't that guy.

When the Bulls are playing good offense, the ball is moving. There is no one dominating the ball and when they absolutely need a bucket, its Lavine. I just don't see a world where you want a PG who is dominating the ball and it improves the offense unless that guy is a superstar.

The best argument for Ball is his defense but the rest of his game isn't a great fit for the Bulls. I'm certainly not going to give up assets or a huge contract for that.

I really just don't get it. I just don't understand how someone could look at the Bulls and then look around the NBA and say "Lonzo Ball, now THAT is the guy the Bulls need."

Here's the way I see it. I REALLY want to dump Lauri at the deadline for either a cow (an established player - like as part of a deal to get a guy like Grant from Detroit for example), but it I can't I at least want to trade for a magic bean (a young guy with upside that fills a need). I put Ball in the latter category. I would gladly give-up Lauri for a 1/2 season try before you buy option on Ball, if there was no better deal out there.

I agree about dumping Lauri but I would rather do it for a guy who has more time on his rookie deal. Jumping from Lauri to Ball seems like burning an asset.

I wouldn't even mind if it was a reach. I also think the Bulls need more bigs and wings, not PG.

[coldfish]

If the choice is Ball vs Lauri for 20M, I'm sticking with Lauri. Yeah you gotta run a bunch of stuff to set him up, but he's such an efficient player that he just fits this team better. Lauri's worst season under one of the worst coaches in history (14.3 PER, .560 TS%) still beats Ball's best season in his career (14.1 PER, .547 TS%). This season? It's not even close.

If we're trying to squeeze out wins and not trying to have it both ways:
- Start Sato for playmaking and defense
- Use Coby as Bench Gunner Extraordinaire

Boom. You limit the Coby + Zach minutes together and have a better balance between the starters and second unit.

I'm certainly not a huge Lauri guy but giving him $20m over Ball for the same amount is a no brainer, IMHO.

[Indomitable]

If the choice is Ball vs Lauri for 20M, I'm sticking with Lauri. Yeah you gotta run a bunch of stuff to set him up, but he's such an efficient player that he just fits this team better. Lauri's worst season under one of the worst coaches in history (14.3 PER, .560 TS%) still beats Ball's best season in his career (14.1 PER, .547 TS%). This season? It's not even close.

If we're trying to squeeze out wins and not trying to have it both ways:
- Start Sato for playmaking and defense
- Use Coby as Bench Gunner Extraordinaire

Boom. You limit the Coby + Zach minutes together and have a better balance between the starters and second unit.

I'm certainly not a huge Lauri guy but giving him $20m over Ball for the same amount is a no brainer, IMHO.

The Bulls need a player like Jeremi Grant. He would make us a top 10 team. The Bulls are much closer to being a good team then the naysayers believe.

[MrSparkle]

Well, look - Jerami Grant is gone. You don’t offer to trade for a freshly signed 4y FA when he’s playing at over 200% beyond his career averages.

I agree we need another forward. OKC is on my radar. They aren’t moving Dort, but Diallo is going to be a FA.

I’m with coldfish. If the choice of paying somebody $20m is Lonzo and Lauri, I probably go with the guy who can score 15 pts on a bad day. If Lonzo can fill out his frame and become a SF, that would be interesting. But these two are expensive risks.

I’d sooner give a Diallo type $10m, and rather trade Lauri for Thybulle.

[PaKii94]

I absolutely do not understand the interest. If you want someone to bring the ball up and pass it to other people, just play Satoransky.

Satoransky 15.4PER 65.1%ts 32.8%ast 7.6%r 23.4%tov
Ball 14.1PER 54.7%ts 21.6%ast 8.0%r 13.8%tov

I mean, everyone knows Sato is basically outplaying Ball, right? Just because the team is trying to force feed Coby entitlement minutes doesn't change the fact that Sato has played well when he is on the court and the team has too.

At a minimum, the difference between Sato and Ball isn't so great that he is worth $20m per year or trading assets. Just play the guy you have for half the price.

Sato is a good distributor, but thus far has shown to be reluctant to shoot (which I never understood). I think the difference is that I (and others likely) have the perception that Ball has upside on both ends, and that's what you'd be paying for. It is the same argument (that, ironically, I argue against) with Lauri, but with Lauri, I don't want him because he is not durable. The other thing I would try with Ball, would be to play him at SF and be point forward, we could then keep Coby out there as a 2nd shooting guard.

Ball isn't a particularly good passer in the half court. People are envisioning him like some Chris Paul like passer but he isn't that guy.

When the Bulls are playing good offense, the ball is moving. There is no one dominating the ball and when they absolutely need a bucket, its Lavine. I just don't see a world where you want a PG who is dominating the ball and it improves the offense unless that guy is a superstar.

The best argument for Ball is his defense but the rest of his game isn't a great fit for the Bulls. I'm certainly not going to give up assets or a huge contract for that.

I really just don't get it. I just don't understand how someone could look at the Bulls and then look around the NBA and say "Lonzo Ball, now THAT is the guy the Bulls need."

Look at his numbers since coming back from injury break. He is not a great half court passer but we don't need that in the movement offense (just needs to hit his catch and shoot which he's been doing). His value would come from overall more competence at PG (over coby) along with much better defense. He has positional advantage size while coby gives up the most (one of the worst PNR defenders in the league)

Then he also fits bulls timeline. I wouldn't give up a boatload of assets for him but I think he could be a good complimentary piece of the team. Also if we retain sato, it would push coby fully off ball as a gunner off the bench

[SfBull]

I like the idea of trading for Ball as he has worked on his 3 point shooting and seems to be a better defender than Sato.Getting Ball ( or a cheaper pg ) makes sense in putting Coby where he is best which is a scorer playing offball.I have watched some Pels' games and Ball has played well lately.Lauri is having a good season but we should think about trading him for improving the point as he seems to be our best asset for it.The Pelicans won't need Ball in the future having Bledsoe and Kira Lewis for running the point so they'll probably open for a trade.A deal involving Lauri and other players for Ball looks interesting for me .

[Chi town]

Man, giving Lonzo $20m per year is a sickening thought.

I sure hope all of the "Lonzo to Chicago" stuff is coming from Ball's camp. The Bulls being truly interested in him would make me question AK's competence, particularly at the price tags being thrown around.

1. I agree. That’s why I don’t trade anything for him. I don’t see him making less than 18M. He is you and trending up. His D would be a big help and he fits the modern NBA. I think he helps Lauri and WCJ too.

2. To my OP... how good could that team be?

[Indomitable]

Man, giving Lonzo $20m per year is a sickening thought.

I sure hope all of the "Lonzo to Chicago" stuff is coming from Ball's camp. The Bulls being truly interested in him would make me question AK's competence, particularly at the price tags being thrown around.

1. I agree. That’s why I don’t trade anything for him. I don’t see him making less than 18M. He is you and trending up. His D would be a big help and he fits the modern NBA. I think he helps Lauri and WCJ too.

2. To my OP... how good could that team be?

Lauri does not matter. Unless he finds away to make his height matter. If he can play like that Charlotte game. He would be worth it. He generally plays like a sf with defense with little playmaking.

WCJ needs to find some agility. Which would be help with his diet. I give him one more season but I would look to get a Mobamma type to push him.

A good two way player is what this team needs. We would become very dangerous.

1. A smart PG with defense
2. Zach
3. Smart 2 way player
4. Pat Will
5. Wendell

That starting lineup would be dangerous and hard to beat.

I wish we could have grabbed Jeremi Grant. He is ideal for this team.

[ZOMG]

I don't consider myself a Lonzo hater or anything - he seems like a good enough dude and a pretty competent spot up shooter these days - but this love affair some Bulls fans have with his PG side is ridiculous.

For starters, Lonzo has none of the half court creativity or attack mentality of his little brother. He's nowhere near quick enough to beat NBA PG's off the dribble and he can't do anything in the midrange. Sure, if your offense is based on ball movement, you could survive with him... hut IMO you need to have a PG who can create with the ball when needed as a safety valve.

Lonzo is a very low motor guy. To be honest, he looks like he doesn't enjoy basketball very much. It could be that standing on the perimeter as a "point guard" while Ingram, Zion and Bledsoe (!) go 1-on-1 has had an effect on him, but I remember already thinking this back when he was on the Lakers.

As for his supposed durability - umm, he's already had one knee surgery in the NBA and has been out due to bilateral knee tendinopathy and an ankle injury within the last month. He doesn't sound like a dude who'll get any quicker as his career goes on.

[chefo]

Again, why do the Bulls need Lonzo?

We have plenty of tall guards that rebound well--Coby, Sato, Temple, Val, Zach. So, no need for him to board that much.

The vets move the ball very well this year, even if it doesn't show up in their stats. So, no need for him to dominate the ball.

Sato is a decent defender, Temple is a good one. Val is hit and miss. Coby is a wreck, obviously. The solution here is not Lonzo--just play Coby 22-25 min/game, rather than 35 and your D will improve by default because the player that will replace his minutes (Sato, Temple) will be a much better defender than he is.

If I were the Bulls, I'm not giving up a dime's worth to get Lonzo. Sure, if you want a 2nd and some of my trash, here you go. Even a lottery protected first because I think 15+ are also a trash asset. But I'm not trading a good player for him. You want him that bad, throw him a decent offer in FA.

And you definitely don't trade Lauri for him. I mean, in theory, the whole point of getting Lonzo is so that he can help set up our bigs--if we don't have a big scorer like Lauri, what the hell do we need Lonzo for? Zach and Thad are doing just fine as-is.

I think the Bulls need another wing and/or another competent big much more than they need Lonzo. Otto was that when he can play healthy--but if we can get an "Otto", even a slightly worse version of -- a 57+TS, 6'6-6'8 who can shoot 3s at 37+% board some and play some D--that player will fit much better with what the Bulls need.

You need a Mikal Bridges (loved him in college, wanted the Bulls to draft him) much more than you need Lonzo. Target him--give the Suns whatever they want... within reason. If you'd be trading Lauri, you need at least a Bridges level contributor coming back for him. Otherwise you're just spinning in place like a hamster. You win by accumulating above average talent, not by shipping your good talent for redundant talent like Lonzo.

P.S. Sad but true--Otto, when healthy, is arguably the Bulls' third best player. If you can get somebody to give you what he does, but for 75+ games, the Ws will start stacking up over a season much quicker than people think. It's his dead $27M that's killing the Bulls this year. It doesn't matter where it gets redeployed--whether for a wing or a big--but you need that $27M to play, and play well.

[NecessaryEvil]

If the choice is Ball vs Lauri for 20M, I'm sticking with Lauri. Yeah you gotta run a bunch of stuff to set him up, but he's such an efficient player that he just fits this team better. Lauri's worst season under one of the worst coaches in history (14.3 PER, .560 TS%) still beats Ball's best season in his career (14.1 PER, .547 TS%). This season? It's not even close.

If we're trying to squeeze out wins and not trying to have it both ways:
- Start Sato for playmaking and defense
- Use Coby as Bench Gunner Extraordinaire

Boom. You limit the Coby + Zach minutes together and have a better balance between the starters and second unit.

I'm certainly not a huge Lauri guy but giving him $20m over Ball for the same amount is a no brainer, IMHO.

The Bulls need a player like Jeremi Grant. He would make us a top 10 team. The Bulls are much closer to being a good team then the naysayers believe.

I’ve been a big fan of Jeremi’s since he was starting to break out in OKC a few yrs back. Dudes become MUCH better than I ever anticipated