Shams: Patrick Williams to sign 5/90 deal

[sco]

We could trade the entire roster to try and give Pat more looks and he would still find a way to average 9.7 ppg.

The biggest red flag to me were Thad Young's comments about him early on about trying to challenge him to be a star. He just doesn't have the personality. When we drafted him, someone asked why Williams couldn't be the next Jimmy Butler. I think it was fleet who said something along the lines of "Jimmy Butler grew up homeless and plays like it. Patrick Williams grew up working at his grandma's flower shop, and plays like it." One of my all-time favorite quotes.

He might settle into being a solid 5th starter or so, but it'll never be worth it if it routinely takes him 20 games to get going.

I was with you, but I'm not buying the rhetoric that he's passive anymore. I legitimately see him trying to be more of an offensive option this season, it's just that he's bad at it. He can shoot open 3's, and little else, and the problem is that IMO Billy is afraid to have him go back in his shell by telling him not to attack the basket anymore (cuz he is so bad at it).

[HomoSapien]

We could trade the entire roster to try and give Pat more looks and he would still find a way to average 9.7 ppg.

The biggest red flag to me were Thad Young's comments about him early on about trying to challenge him to be a star. He just doesn't have the personality. When we drafted him, someone asked why Williams couldn't be the next Jimmy Butler. I think it was fleet who said something along the lines of "Jimmy Butler grew up homeless and plays like it. Patrick Williams grew up working at his grandma's flower shop, and plays like it." One of my all-time favorite quotes.

He might settle into being a solid 5th starter or so, but it'll never be worth it if it routinely takes him 20 games to get going.

I was with you, but I'm not buying the rhetoric that he's passive anymore. I legitimately see him trying to be more of an offensive option this season, it's just that he's bad at it. He can shoot open 3's, and little else, and the problem is that IMO Billy is afraid to have him go back in his shell by telling him not to attack the basket anymore (cuz he is so bad at it).

He's averaging less FGA per 36 than last season. He isn't statistically being more aggressive on offense.

[ImSlower]

Pat Williams' ugly-as-hell game almost single-handedly makes me unable to watch Bulls basketball. So far, my outright skepticism on draft night has never wavered. Same as everyone else here, I've seen those flashes he's shown where he is hitting his open 3s, but also confidently taking the ball strong for an easy 2. The trouble is how those plays he's made are obviously complete outliers to his actual level of NBA skill.

He's hardly changed at all his entire career, other than that this is his worst statistical season yet for Win Shares, BPM etc. He just objectively is a crappy NBA player, and we gave him five years due to about 6 pretty-swell games smattered over four bland as **** seasons.

Sorry Pat you're a well-spoken dude and I had a lot of beers around the grill today. Hope you can manage against Even Mobley.

[Chi town]

Ladies and Gentlmen, it happened. Pat grabbed ten rebounds in a game.

Although, one was an easy missed dunk in crunch time.

So fitting.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I thought Pat played one of this better games of the season so far. In the first half that is.

He still hasnt put together a full great game yet. He only had 3pts and 4 rebs in the second half last night. But getting a double double and playing equal to Mobley was commendable.

I am encouraged with his rebounding this season. Career high 5.5 which is a significant improvement from years past.

I do think Pat will eventually round out his shooting numbers. But even then, Pat needs to go back in the lab.

If he wants to be more than a Dorian Finney-Smith he needs to know what he wants to do on offense. Figure that out and improve on that. Ball handling, finishing, pump fakes, you name it. It needs a lot of work.

If he is fine with being just a 3 and D guy then still be the best version of it. Those positions are a premium in the league and very valuable.

But someone as strong and has the physical tools like Pat should be more than 10/4

[KissedByaRose1]

I thought Pat played one of this better games of the season so far. In the first half that is.

He still hasnt put together a full great game yet. He only had 3pts and 4 rebs in the second half last night. But getting a double double and playing equal to Mobley was commendable.

I am encouraged with his rebounding this season. Career high 5.5 which is a significant improvement from years past.

I do think Pat will eventually round out his shooting numbers. But even then, Pat needs to go back in the lab.

If he wants to be more than a Dorian Finney-Smith he needs to know what he wants to do on offense. Figure that out and improve on that. Ball handling, finishing, pump fakes, you name it. It needs a lot of work.

If he is fine with being just a 3 and D guy then still be the best version of it. Those positions are a premium in the league and very valuable.

But someone as strong and has the physical tools like Pat should be more than 10/4

Agreed. Games where he doesn't look allergic to rebounding you can clearly see his value. I have no idea why he's such an awful dunker/finisher though. His hands appear to be made of stone whenever it comes time to throw it down, with 1 or 2 hands.

[MrSparkle]

Most frustrating long-tenure Bulls (5+ seasons) of all-time... excluding injuries (Rose, Zach's downs, etc.):

1. Vuc (5) - takes the cake for the cost of entry, although if he played the way he is currently for the prior 4 years, we might not be as angry with the trade, even though his defensive presence is still a deterrent to winning

2. Pat (5) - bust at #4 and an overpay

3. Felicio (6) - just a comical overpay

4. Chandler (5) - maybe misused and abused by Skiles, but really didn't figure it out in Chicago

If Pat doesn't turn this season around, this $90M extension might end up taking the mantle. This fool is generating 9 PPG on 9 timid FGAs. His on-court ratings are deplorable. He has willing passers (Giddey, Vuc) and spacers (Zach, Coby, Vuc) around him. What is his excuse? He is legitimately playing worse than his rookie season.

[MGB8]

I thought Pat played one of this better games of the season so far. In the first half that is.

He still hasnt put together a full great game yet. He only had 3pts and 4 rebs in the second half last night. But getting a double double and playing equal to Mobley was commendable.

I am encouraged with his rebounding this season. Career high 5.5 which is a significant improvement from years past.

I do think Pat will eventually round out his shooting numbers. But even then, Pat needs to go back in the lab.

If he wants to be more than a Dorian Finney-Smith he needs to know what he wants to do on offense. Figure that out and improve on that. Ball handling, finishing, pump fakes, you name it. It needs a lot of work.

If he is fine with being just a 3 and D guy then still be the best version of it. Those positions are a premium in the league and very valuable.

But someone as strong and has the physical tools like Pat should be more than 10/4

Honestly, though, just stabilizing to be a DFS type, consistently, would go a long way. They are similar, but Patrick is currently much worse from 2, and not consistent with the energy (though still, improved from last season).

18 mil per for DFS is still an overpay, but Pat isn’t quite even to that level yet this season - though he may well get there. To justify the contract, has to be more like Cam Johnson (but not quite - Johnson is somewhat outplaying his deal).

[Stratmaster]

I thought Pat played one of this better games of the season so far. In the first half that is.

He still hasnt put together a full great game yet. He only had 3pts and 4 rebs in the second half last night. But getting a double double and playing equal to Mobley was commendable.

I am encouraged with his rebounding this season. Career high 5.5 which is a significant improvement from years past.

I do think Pat will eventually round out his shooting numbers. But even then, Pat needs to go back in the lab.

If he wants to be more than a Dorian Finney-Smith he needs to know what he wants to do on offense. Figure that out and improve on that. Ball handling, finishing, pump fakes, you name it. It needs a lot of work.

If he is fine with being just a 3 and D guy then still be the best version of it. Those positions are a premium in the league and very valuable.

But someone as strong and has the physical tools like Pat should be more than 10/4

As one of his biggest critics, he absolutely played great in the first half. If he can rebound like he did last night, along with his 3 and D capabilities, the contract may not look completely terrible. It will take a consistent showing for several games to make be believe he can do that.

As far as everything that was being expected around his athleticism, handles, shot creation etc. I still just don't see any of that and I cringe every time he gets the ball in his hands for anything other than a catch and shoot.

[GoBlue72391]

I thought Pat played one of this better games of the season so far. In the first half that is.

He still hasnt put together a full great game yet. He only had 3pts and 4 rebs in the second half last night. But getting a double double and playing equal to Mobley was commendable.

I am encouraged with his rebounding this season. Career high 5.5 which is a significant improvement from years past.

I do think Pat will eventually round out his shooting numbers. But even then, Pat needs to go back in the lab.

If he wants to be more than a Dorian Finney-Smith he needs to know what he wants to do on offense. Figure that out and improve on that. Ball handling, finishing, pump fakes, you name it. It needs a lot of work.

If he is fine with being just a 3 and D guy then still be the best version of it. Those positions are a premium in the league and very valuable.

But someone as strong and has the physical tools like Pat should be more than 10/4

Agreed. Games where he doesn't look allergic to rebounding you can clearly see his value. I have no idea why he's such an awful dunker/finisher though. His hands appear to be made of stone whenever it comes time to throw it down, with 1 or 2 hands.

He's such a poor finisher because he severely lacks body control and fluidity, plus for whatever reason he always seems to lose his grip on the ball right as he's about to dunk it despite his big hands. He's very, very stiff which hurts his ability to finish through contact and he doesn't have the pure vert/explosion to overcome it.

Plus he's mostly limited to simple straight-line drives due to his poor ball handling which makes his finishes more difficult and he really hasn't flashed a floater outside of his rookie year with that one-hand shot he used to do. Not sure where that went or why he abandoned it, as it could help him score when he can't get all the way to the rim.

[Ballerkingn23]

I still would like for Billy to feature the kid some. We don't run no plays the kid or anything. Its like he's phased out the offense completely and just a 3pt spot up shooter at best. Which I think is a undervaluing of his true talent. Because this kid was the 4th pick and has been training with some of the best trainers in his career. So I think something more is there we just have to give him a full feature to really know for sure.

So I would love for us to give him 10 shots a game sample size over a 5-10 game stretch before we completely write him off. Bec as of now it's a waste of a draft pick and a overpay imo at this point otherwise. Like why is he even on this team, we should look to flip him if he's not in the future plans given we've moved on Demar, and looking to do the same with Zach and Vuc.

Why would you run plays for a guy who can't dribble, can't create, can't finish, and can't post up? That would be kinda weird.

He's a spot-up 3-point shooter at best because...he's a spot-up 3-point shooter at best. He's not capable of doing much more than that.

People put too much stock into the 4th pick thing. Remove that label and view him objectively as a player. Pretend he was a late lottery pick.

Wow You think he's that horrible of a player... I mean idk what to say.

[GoBlue72391]

I still would like for Billy to feature the kid some. We don't run no plays the kid or anything. Its like he's phased out the offense completely and just a 3pt spot up shooter at best. Which I think is a undervaluing of his true talent. Because this kid was the 4th pick and has been training with some of the best trainers in his career. So I think something more is there we just have to give him a full feature to really know for sure.

So I would love for us to give him 10 shots a game sample size over a 5-10 game stretch before we completely write him off. Bec as of now it's a waste of a draft pick and a overpay imo at this point otherwise. Like why is he even on this team, we should look to flip him if he's not in the future plans given we've moved on Demar, and looking to do the same with Zach and Vuc.

Why would you run plays for a guy who can't dribble, can't create, can't finish, and can't post up? That would be kinda weird.

He's a spot-up 3-point shooter at best because...he's a spot-up 3-point shooter at best. He's not capable of doing much more than that.

People put too much stock into the 4th pick thing. Remove that label and view him objectively as a player. Pretend he was a late lottery pick.

Wow You think he's that horrible of a player... I mean idk what to say.

What did I say that was so unthinkable? I never said he's horrible.

[DASMACKDOWN]

As far as everything that was being expected around his athleticism, handles, shot creation etc. I still just don't see any of that and I cringe every time he gets the ball in his hands for anything other than a catch and shoot.

Well that sentiment is felt by most fans. He is beyond terrible at it. If you slightly knock into Pat, the ball will come loose. If he dribbles even in a straight line, he has about a 1 in 4 chance to dribble off his foot. Maybe higher.

But baby steps I guess. This year so far I actually can feel his presence out there despite mixed results.

Its no longer 28 minutes of straight up cardio.

[madvillian]

He's trending up. Long way to go. I can see he's impacting the game in some ways good and bad more. As Smackdown said he's not just out there getting cardio. It's a shame he basically missed two offseasons because of injury. He'd be a lot further ahead imo skill wise.

[Ballerkingn23]

Are some of y'all getting your plates ready to eat some crow LOL

[sco]

Are some of y'all getting your plates ready to eat some crow LOL

I'm hungry! Feed me Pat!

[DuckIII]

Are some of y'all getting your plates ready to eat some crow LOL

Probably not great timing since when he survives his “opening games nightmare” (which is every year) and puts a few games together in a row, he’ll lay one of his biggest most mind-boggling games of the season.

[GoBlue72391]

Are some of y'all getting your plates ready to eat some crow LOL

As if he's never strung a handful of solid games in a row before only to come crashing back down to earth. I'll eat crow when he puts together an entire season of consistently good play.

[erlim]

Are some of y'all getting your plates ready to eat some crow LOL

Why? In my time watching the NBA I can’t remember a player that’s been gifted more minutes and entitled more opportunities to the point we ferociously avoid any attempts signing any depth at his position. We would be better off getting Christiano Felicio back on the squad.

[JimmyButler21]

Are some of y'all getting your plates ready to eat some crow LOL

Probably not great timing since when he survives his “opening games nightmare” (which is every year) and puts a few games together in a row, he’ll lay one of his biggest most mind-boggling games of the season.

Mind-boggling game activated