Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread

[ZOMG]

People won't appreciate the shooting until it's gone.

They'll "appreciate it" when it's consistent good.

A healthy Lauri has been consistently good but I know what you mean. That's why I said pray for a healthy Lauri and we'll get consistently good shooting for the rest of the season

I want him to shoot consistently as much as the next guy, but the reality is that he's streaky. But what's different now is that he has more ways to be effective if his bombs are not dropping - he just has to keep moving without the ball and good things will probably happen near the basket.

Previously, people told him to "post up" somebody to get himself going, which was not going to end well. Playmaker Thad helps.

[DroseReturnChi]

Lauri at 20 mil would be a dream for you guys. The number of PFs that can shoot the 3 as often and efficiently as Lauri is very small which means teams that need floor spacing would be happy to have him. Like the Cavs are missing Love so badly right now for his ability to shoot 3s as at a high volume efficiently and it's causing their offense to sputter if they can't get points off turnovers.

People won't appreciate the shooting until it's gone.

They'll "appreciate it" when it's consistent good.

its hard to be consistent good when half of your fan base, coach, players want you to fail.
Its a miracle lauri as a number 1 option always has success. When has lavine won this much when he scored 40 or more?

[LateNight]

People won't appreciate the shooting until it's gone.

They'll "appreciate it" when it's consistent good.

its hard to be consistent good when half of your fan base, coach, players want you to fail.
Its a miracle lauri as a number 1 option always has success. When has lavine won this much when he scored 40 or more?

I get your point about having Lauri more engaged in the offense - but Lavine closed out this game. Lauri, after a great first half, disappeared completely in the 4th and Lavine was the only guy making shots.

[sco]

They'll "appreciate it" when it's consistent good.

its hard to be consistent good when half of your fan base, coach, players want you to fail.
Its a miracle lauri as a number 1 option always has success. When has lavine won this much when he scored 40 or more?

I get your point about having Lauri more engaged in the offense - but Lavine closed out this game. Lauri, after a great first half, disappeared completely in the 4th and Lavine was the only guy making shots.

Billy commented in the presser that he thinks he left Lauri out there too long in the 3rd, and he was gassed in the 4th.

Separately, I wanted to give Lauri credit. One thing that was hard to watch last season was him trying to back guys down in the post and his use of the spin move that had a 89.7% turn-over rate. I can't recall him trying much, if any, back to the basket post-up bball this season, and I couldn't be happier. NOT HIS GAME.

[LateNight]

its hard to be consistent good when half of your fan base, coach, players want you to fail.
Its a miracle lauri as a number 1 option always has success. When has lavine won this much when he scored 40 or more?

I get your point about having Lauri more engaged in the offense - but Lavine closed out this game. Lauri, after a great first half, disappeared completely in the 4th and Lavine was the only guy making shots.

Billy commented in the presser that he thinks he left Lauri out there too long in the 3rd, and he was gassed in the 4th.

Separately, I wanted to give Lauri credit. One thing that was hard to watch last season was him trying to back guys down in the post and his use of the spin move that had a 89.7% turn-over rate. I can't recall him trying much, if any, back to the basket post-up bball this season, and I couldn't be happier. NOT HIS GAME.

Yeah - that makes sense. And I was really excited to see Lauri look aggressive. I was very happy.

I just get annoyed at the "Zach is holding Lauri back" narrative. Everybody on the team, including Lauri, looks better when we have an experience post player in the game. Thad is a threat in the post who can make a pass and also fights for rebounds - all of those things help draw attention away from Lauri which helps his game.

In the first half, Zach was getting shut down and the rest of the team got going. Then, when the rest of the team wasn't making shots, Zach went off. I guess you could make the argument that the team looked better when Zach wasn't the focal point of the offense - but the final quarter was a good example of why he often becomes the focal point of the offense.

[Stratmaster]

Great game from Lauri. The Zach vs. Lauri thing is all BS, as is the narrative that "nobody Iikes poor Lauri" including the coach and his teammates.

Zach has been looking for Lauri on every possesion. But context is everything.

Teams are double teaming Zach on every PnR preventing him from getting the ball to Lauri at times (Lauri is not playing a position in the court where he comes to Zach to get the pass, and we wouldn't want him to). Thad is making the difference because he is able to take the pass from Lavine off the roll and find Lauri to make defenses pay for double teaming Lavine.

That's why it didn't bother me that Lauri didn't shoot well down the stretch. His first 3 quarters forced the defense to pay more attention to him. That opened things up for other players.

If Lauri stays healthy I believe he will stay aggressive. If Lauri is aggressive he and Lavine are scary together... like we always hoped they would be from the start.

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[ATRAIN53]

Kid is playing like he saw Davis Bertans sign that 5/80 deal and knows he's younger and could get more.....

I love/hate players on contract years!!!!

please stay healthy

[DroseReturnChi]

They'll "appreciate it" when it's consistent good.

its hard to be consistent good when half of your fan base, coach, players want you to fail.
Its a miracle lauri as a number 1 option always has success. When has lavine won this much when he scored 40 or more?

I get your point about having Lauri more engaged in the offense - but Lavine closed out this game. Lauri, after a great first half, disappeared completely in the 4th and Lavine was the only guy making shots.

no im not talking abt this game only. and nobody even guarded lavine ofc he should make that shot when everyone is focused on lauri.
Knowing Lavine never passes, you always double so this is on thibs not closing out well.
just look at the record whenever lavine has big scoring moments compared to feb lauri. theres a big difference and the its not like the sample size is small to ignore. Lauri is a superior defender, shooter, and more versatile player than Lavine. If he was resigned 4/80, Lavine would have been traded today.

[RoseTheFuture22]

Kid is playing like he saw Davis Bertans sign that 5/80 deal and knows he's younger and could get more.....

I love/hate players on contract years!!!!

please stay healthy

I think something like 4/$80 could be fair for Lauri but I'm sure he wants more in the $25 mil/year range.

I haven't seen much of a change in the way he's used the last few games that he's blown up, its the same type of shots that he has always been getting but he just happens to be making them at the moment.

A few changes I have noticed though is he seems like he is cutting off ball to the rim and has developed some good chemistry with Thad. Also the defensive intensity/effort has looked better but who knows if that will last either.

[LateNight]

its hard to be consistent good when half of your fan base, coach, players want you to fail.
Its a miracle lauri as a number 1 option always has success. When has lavine won this much when he scored 40 or more?

I get your point about having Lauri more engaged in the offense - but Lavine closed out this game. Lauri, after a great first half, disappeared completely in the 4th and Lavine was the only guy making shots.

no im not talking abt this game only. and nobody even guarded lavine ofc he should make that shot when everyone is focused on lauri.
Knowing Lavine never passes, you always double so this is on thibs not closing out well.
just look at the record whenever lavine has big scoring moments compared to feb lauri. theres a big difference and the its not like the sample size is small to ignore. Lauri is a superior defender, shooter, and more versatile player than Lavine. If he was resigned 4/80, Lavine would have been traded today.

Literally none of the things in bold are true.

Also - the "won't pass" narrative is not true anymore either. Zach is 38th overall in assists per game. Only 3 shooting guards are higher than him on that list (though, in fairness, some of those PG's play SG and some of the 3 SG play PG).

While Zach may not be the ideal person you want playing the point, and doesn't always initiate plays well - he isn't a non-passer. And he seems to get better at that every game.

[RastaBull]

I'd give Lauri a deal that equals his PPG output haha.

If he maintains 20ppg then I'd sign him at 20 per year. If he is consistent rest of year and ups it to 22/23ppg, then I'd sign him to that too.

His rebounds, both from watching box score and by eye test, don't seem like they'll get over 7rpg this year. If they did though, then I'd expect him to get serious consideration for 25+ per year from teams (like if he legit plays full season and average 22/8).

[dougthonus]

Lauri's game last night was kind of like the post for a good Lauri game. He was super efficient, great scoring in the first half. The Knicks just took him out of the game by staying at home on him in the second half, but then staying at home on him left a lot of room for LaVine.

[Pentele]

Lauri's game last night was kind of like the post for a good Lauri game. He was super efficient, great scoring in the first half. The Knicks just took him out of the game by staying at home on him in the second half, but then staying at home on him left a lot of room for LaVine.

Indeed, what separates good teams from the average teams is that they can create the above type of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations on the court on a more or less constant basis. In fact, it is as good definition as any for an effective one-two punch.

Another thing that has already been mentioned but deserves emphasis: who would have thought last season that Thad and Lauri would have instant chemistry on the court? That also serves as a good lesson for not sticking to habitual narratives. Instead of constantly comparing the performance of two players of "the same position" to another, they might actually complement each other very well in today's positionless basketball.

[FranchisePlayer]

Amazing what an incompetent coach can do to you. Boylen ruined Lauri's 3rd season. And Thad's.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

So, I decided to do some advanced statistical analysis of what I was seeing. My preconceived notion watching the offense was Lauri is spoon-fed his shots, and a laughable amount are wide open. He hasn't created for anyone else, and while he is a black hole, his great efficiency makes that okay (to a certain extent). But not someone worth a contract of 20+ million a year, even at this efficiency.

Step 1: Use Tracking stats to determine how many of Lauri's looks are wide open, compare to the rest of the starting unit as a reference.

Percentage of shots considered "Wide Open": Defender more than 6 feet away from the shooter

Coby White: 28%
Zach Lavine: 18%
Patrick Williams: 32%
Lauri Mark: 41%
Wendell Carter Jr: 20%

Ok, so this confirms it. Almost almost half of Lauri's looks are wide, wide, wide open. And we know that Lauri isn't breaking ankles and get 6 feet of space off the dribble, so the offensive system and other players are getting him wide open looks. And he's hitting them right now.

Step 2: Assist % (Percentage of a team's assists made by a player when he is on the floor)

Coby White: 24%
Zach Lavine: 24%
Patrick Williams: 6%
Lauri Mark: 5%
Wendell Carter Jr: 13%

This one is pretty damning. He essentially is a black hole, not really interested in getting teammates the ball. Once it gets to him, he shoots it, or passes it back out. He isn't creating for anyone else. Again, not sure how you can pay 20+ million for that.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

I said it whole last year egg is worst coach ever and ruin the season and trade value. Some posters said he wasant that bad and the Bulls would be the same with or without him. Not true at all. Mark,Thad,Denzel even Lavine playing much better this season due to propper coaching. And i am talking about White being marked as pg of the future and playing pg, holdin us from being 6 seed on east. I am rooting for White to be 6 man, Gordan type of player, that holds value and he will eventually earn semi big contract. But trade for real pg, floor general if you want to assure playoffs after 3 years of mediocreacy. With true pg, our record is way better and trade value of all the players, including White as 6 man is way higher.

[PaKii94]

So, I decided to do some advanced statistical analysis of what I was seeing. My preconceived notion watching the offense was Lauri is spoon-fed his shots, and a laughable amount are wide open. He hasn't created for anyone else, and while he is a black hole, his great efficiency makes that okay (to a certain extent). But not someone worth a contract of 20+ million a year, even at this efficiency.

Step 1: Use Tracking stats to determine how many of Lauri's looks are wide open, compare to the rest of the starting unit as a reference.

Percentage of shots considered "Wide Open": Defender more than 6 feet away from the shooter

Coby White: 28%
Zach Lavine: 18%
Patrick Williams: 32%
Lauri Mark: 41%
Wendell Carter Jr: 20%

Ok, so this confirms it. Almost almost half of Lauri's looks are wide, wide, wide open. And we know that Lauri isn't breaking ankles and get 6 feet of space off the dribble, so the offensive system and other players are getting him wide open looks. And he's hitting them right now.

Step 2: Assist % (Percentage of a team's assists made by a player when he is on the floor)

Coby White: 24%
Zach Lavine: 24%
Patrick Williams: 6%
Lauri Mark: 5%
Wendell Carter Jr: 13%

This one is pretty damning. He essentially is a black hole, not really interested in getting teammates the ball. Once it gets to him, he shoots it, or passes it back out. He isn't creating for anyone else. Again, not sure how you can pay 20+ million for that.

We saw Lauri create more yesterday when he was utilized more. Also when you have a big man shooter at 65% TS, usually you're going to end the plays with him getting up an open shot, not pass out for an inferior look.

Also could you break it down further for his 2 point attempts? He's always gonna get a good portion of the open 3s just because of the position he's playing. Most PFs are closer to the paint.

Just looked. 40% of his looks are wide open 3s. 38% of his looks are tight to very tight 2pt attempts. The remaining 22% lie in between. That's not a bad distribution

[Stratmaster]

So, I decided to do some advanced statistical analysis of what I was seeing. My preconceived notion watching the offense was Lauri is spoon-fed his shots, and a laughable amount are wide open. He hasn't created for anyone else, and while he is a black hole, his great efficiency makes that okay (to a certain extent). But not someone worth a contract of 20+ million a year, even at this efficiency.

Step 1: Use Tracking stats to determine how many of Lauri's looks are wide open, compare to the rest of the starting unit as a reference.

Percentage of shots considered "Wide Open": Defender more than 6 feet away from the shooter

Coby White: 28%
Zach Lavine: 18%
Patrick Williams: 32%
Lauri Mark: 41%
Wendell Carter Jr: 20%

Ok, so this confirms it. Almost almost half of Lauri's looks are wide, wide, wide open. And we know that Lauri isn't breaking ankles and get 6 feet of space off the dribble, so the offensive system and other players are getting him wide open looks. And he's hitting them right now.

Step 2: Assist % (Percentage of a team's assists made by a player when he is on the floor)

Coby White: 24%
Zach Lavine: 24%
Patrick Williams: 6%
Lauri Mark: 5%
Wendell Carter Jr: 13%

This one is pretty damning. He essentially is a black hole, not really interested in getting teammates the ball. Once it gets to him, he shoots it, or passes it back out. He isn't creating for anyone else. Again, not sure how you can pay 20+ million for that.

You realize he plays the 4, right?

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[Chicago-Bull-E]

So, I decided to do some advanced statistical analysis of what I was seeing. My preconceived notion watching the offense was Lauri is spoon-fed his shots, and a laughable amount are wide open. He hasn't created for anyone else, and while he is a black hole, his great efficiency makes that okay (to a certain extent). But not someone worth a contract of 20+ million a year, even at this efficiency.

Step 1: Use Tracking stats to determine how many of Lauri's looks are wide open, compare to the rest of the starting unit as a reference.

Percentage of shots considered "Wide Open": Defender more than 6 feet away from the shooter

Coby White: 28%
Zach Lavine: 18%
Patrick Williams: 32%
Lauri Mark: 41%
Wendell Carter Jr: 20%

Ok, so this confirms it. Almost almost half of Lauri's looks are wide, wide, wide open. And we know that Lauri isn't breaking ankles and get 6 feet of space off the dribble, so the offensive system and other players are getting him wide open looks. And he's hitting them right now.

Step 2: Assist % (Percentage of a team's assists made by a player when he is on the floor)

Coby White: 24%
Zach Lavine: 24%
Patrick Williams: 6%
Lauri Mark: 5%
Wendell Carter Jr: 13%

This one is pretty damning. He essentially is a black hole, not really interested in getting teammates the ball. Once it gets to him, he shoots it, or passes it back out. He isn't creating for anyone else. Again, not sure how you can pay 20+ million for that.

We saw Lauri create more yesterday when he was utilized more. Also when you have a big man shooter at 65% TS, usually you're going to end the plays with him getting up an open shot, not pass out for an inferior look.

I don't agree with the first part, I don't think he's shown any kind of elite passing or shot creation for others with much consistency.

As for the 2nd part, I strongly agree. Lauri is shooting at an elite level, and the Bulls SHOULD be funneling him shots. And that's good.

I think my point is what kind of financial value do you place on an ELITE shooter, but a guy that isn't giving much else? Because it isn't happening from a creation standpoint, a defensive standpoint, a rebounding standpoint, etc. And if you getting a guy 40% of his shots as completely WIDE open, can you find his value with a much less costly player?

[Chicago-Bull-E]

So, I decided to do some advanced statistical analysis of what I was seeing. My preconceived notion watching the offense was Lauri is spoon-fed his shots, and a laughable amount are wide open. He hasn't created for anyone else, and while he is a black hole, his great efficiency makes that okay (to a certain extent). But not someone worth a contract of 20+ million a year, even at this efficiency.

Step 1: Use Tracking stats to determine how many of Lauri's looks are wide open, compare to the rest of the starting unit as a reference.

Percentage of shots considered "Wide Open": Defender more than 6 feet away from the shooter

Coby White: 28%
Zach Lavine: 18%
Patrick Williams: 32%
Lauri Mark: 41%
Wendell Carter Jr: 20%

Ok, so this confirms it. Almost almost half of Lauri's looks are wide, wide, wide open. And we know that Lauri isn't breaking ankles and get 6 feet of space off the dribble, so the offensive system and other players are getting him wide open looks. And he's hitting them right now.

Step 2: Assist % (Percentage of a team's assists made by a player when he is on the floor)

Coby White: 24%
Zach Lavine: 24%
Patrick Williams: 6%
Lauri Mark: 5%
Wendell Carter Jr: 13%

This one is pretty damning. He essentially is a black hole, not really interested in getting teammates the ball. Once it gets to him, he shoots it, or passes it back out. He isn't creating for anyone else. Again, not sure how you can pay 20+ million for that.

You realize he plays the 4, right?

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He does?

On the other end of the spectrum, Draymond Green assists 33% of the total GSW assists on the floor. You can go through starting power forwards, Lauri comes up very low on assist %.

For me, it's about how much he is bringing to the table, and what that cost is like. I still haven't seen anything that suggests he is worth 20+ million. He hasn't added anything to his game really, but he is shooting much more efficiently.