Bulls trade Alex Caruso to OKC for Josh Giddey

[Ice Man]

If you think that Giddey has upside, and can improve to be an above-average NBA starter, then this unquestionably was a good deal for the Bulls. If not, then it unquestionably was not a good deal. I mean, that's basically it.

[step]

Honestly I cant think of any Bulls trade where Bulls fans didnt overreact like this.

I think yell would have found a way to complain when we traded Will Perdue for Dennis Rodman lol.

Most of the other fans on realgm think that Chicago got screwed here. Its not just us. If anything, this thread is far more pro-Chicago than you get on the other boards where they think OKC bent the Bulls over.

I think the offseason Giddey is clouding judgement though. That is very common when it comes to players that have bag-ish situations.

My goto is proove to me that anyone would complain even in the slightest if we traded Alex last year for Josh Giddey. OKC would have laughed at us.

In so many ways, his checkered offseason and moving the ball more in SGAs hands was the perfect storm to allow a deal like that to even happen in the first place.

This is equal to them trading Jalen Williams for Jrue Holiday.

It's not just the fans though.. it's the media/'experts' all largely saying the same thing too. Much like with the Demar trade.

I see this largely depending on what side of the fence you were on with Giddey. Questions were being had about Giddey's place on that team long term, even with only being 21 and the post season didn't exactly help. Add in the fact that Presti is known for moving players he doesn't see fit (e.g. Harden), it's not an absurd take to have probably expected something more in return.

And last offseason, the trajectory of Giddey was very different. Perhaps the drama played into it, but even after he was cleared it's not liked he improved dramatically. For many, it wasn't just a down year, it was a regression from his rookie year.

I do hope we achieve the same successful outcome we did we Demar here... but I am of the same camp that thought we probably could of battered a bit harder/better.

What I just laugh at is.... we finally get our Lonzo 'replacement' just as Lonzo is to return.

[League Circles]

This trade also just absolutely solidified the living **** out of the fact that Vuc needs to either be gone this summer or in a significantly reduced role.

This was already the case but is heavily amplified now due to the defensive downgrade that the trade results in. And I see Giddey finding open shooters, cutters and lob guys much more than I see him finding Vuc for a 40% post up attempt.

Giddey and Vuc could coexist and maybe be effective for 15 mpg off the bench if they are flanked by 3 outright good defenders only.

[Dan Z]

OKC could say no to adding picks and the Bulls could say no to doing the trade without them.

I've said this before, but I don't think AK values picks so he probably didn't even ask for them.

We could say no, and then we could move on to a different trade, and that trade probably isn't giving us a 21 year old, high potential, 3 year starter, and the draft picks we get (likely not ones that will land in the lottery, because teams who can use Caruso by and large don't have any of those) will almost certainly yield worse players.

I guess we'll never really know.

I don't think Giddey or the trade is bad, but I'd prefer to take a chance on the unknown (a pick or picks). The reason being that the Bulls, even with Giddey, still wont go that far and still need to find a franchise player.

[chitowndish]

I think it's a pretty good move because I think one of the biggest things this team needed when Lonzo went down is guys that can distribute well. Coby has grown well into this and Ayo has always been good at it but I think this is an additive thing and if we can get a critical mass of guys that move the ball well I think the team will flow a lot better and it will help the young guys develop. Also just from a personal level watching this team without a capable ball distributor has been rough, again Coby started to grow into something that made this watchable but he could use help and he is at his core a scorer so this can help free him up a bit and let him do what he is best at.

The next step is to move on from DDR, pump and dump Zach for hopefully some young guys and whatever picks we can get (I'm good moving him draft night if we can get something decent but I kind of doubt that we will get decent offers) and draft a solid defensive mobile rim runner this year with our pick to make up for our loss of point of attack defense. That team isn't a contender but you have developing young guys and a good atmosphere for them to grow and build value. Would be great if he could shoot but I still think shooting is one of the easier skills for people to build just put up a ton of jump shots in practice and eventually you will get consistent unless there are deeper reasons for the inconsistency like nerves or physical limitations.

I was worried about the allegations but yeah that stuff is pretty tame I mean even if he was 18-19 dating a 16-17 year old those kinds of age gaps happened pretty regularly in HS at least when I was growing up it's basically a Senior dating a Sophmore and I never feel like this is the reason those laws exist to go after kids with 1-2 year age gaps. Girl was underage at an 18+ club so he had reason to expect her to be of age and there were no charges.

I'm going to really miss Caruso though it's been an absolute pleasure watching that guy play basketball and he's been a bright spot during what has felt like one of the darkest periods of Bulls basketball. He deserves to be on a contender though and I like the way that team is shaping up so I think it will be a nice fit for him and he'll really help that team out.

[JohnnyTapwater]

The more I think about it, this is like drafting a can't-miss contributor in this year's draft. Giddey is 21 and has already produced on a winning team in the NBA.

Doing a quick search, Knecht, Devin Carter, Tristan da Silva, Edey, Daron Holmes, Terrence Shannon, and Kolek are all older than Josh Giddey.

So there is still room for growth, and we happen to have a shooting coach that has paid dividends.

[coldfish]

Here is Chicago's roster as of right now:
PG White / Ayo / Giddey / Ball / Carter
SG Lavine
SF Phillips / Terry
PF Williams / Craig
C Vucevic

That's some top tier team building there.

.....

One thing I haven't really heard discussed much is that Giddey is probably not as good as White and Ayo. Giddey isn't an off ball guy.

While he is an intriguing prospect due to his age, this team is a hot mess personnel wise.

Ayo's more a SG than a PG IMO. He's not a pure passer, and he's definitely sized as a SG and has the defensive capability to defend 1-3. He can play SG, but if he keeps up his open 3 point shooting, he's a really good fit next to Giddey. Coby shoots way better off ball than on ball, so I don't think it's a huge problem to play him next to Giddey either, though the defensive pairing there is certainly more dicey, and Giddey's 6'8, so you can hide him on a bigger but less athletic guys the other team often trots out there, and he can keep them off the glass / defend the three point line.

That said, I agree that the Bulls roster is a mess, but it's primarily a mess if they bring back Vuc and DeRozan, those two guys do not fit around someone like Giddey at all, you can't have three non shooters out there, and it's obvious those guys don't fit the timeline.

If we could somehow flip DeRozan and Vuc into a really good defensive center, and a 3&D wing then keep Zach, then the Bulls would be really intriguing with Giddey setting everyone up and and a defensive stopper behind them, but that's probably a tall order.

Relative to Coby and Ayo, I think Coby might be the most overrated Bull I've seen. He had one super hot month where he shot like 60% from three and people started thinking star potential when it was obvious he would not keep that up because Steph Curry couldn't keep that up, and outside of that, he went back to being what looks like a bench gunner to me. Still only a moderate efficiency scorer with limited passing vision and defensive ability. Giddey has different flaws, but more talent IMO. If Giddey can actually learn to shoot, his upside would destroy any reasonable improvement you could project onto Coby or Ayo.

Of the three Ayo has the highest floor and is the most versatile, he's a legit NBA multi-position defender, and looks like a capable open 3 point shooter with decent ball handling skills and some creation. Ayo's going to be a valuable guy in the league for the next 15 years that can fit onto literally any team, because every team will need what he does given he might have the two most important strengths, and no meaningful weaknesses, but he also likely has the lowest ceiling.

Coby/Giddey are guys that will also likely have long careers and have more potential to make a larger impact, but they will be niche fits because they have important flaws that are unlikely to be corrected and will only make that larger impact if put in the right situation and will be less valuable in a generic situation.

The Bulls need to be thoughtful about how they build their team with guys like Coby/Giddey and that's certainly more complicated and difficult.

I think Coby is about as "meh" as you can get. Really not a needle mover unless he is super hot.

I just don't think that much of Giddey though. Can't shoot. Can't defend.

That said, he is just 21. This is a flyer. I get it. Maybe it works out well for the team. This is what the start of a rebuild looks like.

Realistically, the fundamental problem for a rebuild is that the Bulls have is that no one on the roster even projects as a top tier player. Giddey / Coby / Ayo / Williams are all 2nd and 3rd tier guys at best. I don't even see a path for getting one outside of huge lottery luck.

Overall this trade is disappointing emotionally because I liked Caruso. Logically it makes sense but as soon as logic walks in the room and looks at the Bulls, he says "this . . . is not good." As such, both the logical and emotional parts of me aren't happy, for different reasons.

[SfBull]

What are the chances that Giddey is our PF next season?

I don't see Giddey as a PF.This trade hopefully will be the first of moves involving Ball,Zach and Pat.
A backcourt with Coby and Giddey will be strong on offense but will need better defensive players than Pat and Vuc in the frontcourt.I wish AK could have made a better trade including OKC's #12 looking for a good defensive big man, a guy like Holmes or Ware.
But it seems AK isn't interested in more draft picks.

[Dez]

What are the chances that Giddey is our PF next season?

I don't see Giddey as a PF.This trade hopefully will be the first of moves involving Ball,Zach and Pat.
A backcourt with Coby and Giddey will be strong on offense but will need better defensive players than Pat and Vuc in the frontcourt.I wish AK could have made a better trade including OKC's #12 looking for a good defensive big man, a guy like Holmes or Ware.
But it seems AK isn't interested in more draft picks.

What? Williams is a strong defender.

[SfBull]

What are the chances that Giddey is our PF next season?

I don't see Giddey as a PF.This trade hopefully will be the first of moves involving Ball,Zach and Pat.
A backcourt with Coby and Giddey will be strong on offense but will need better defensive players than Pat and Vuc in the frontcourt.I wish AK could have made a better trade including OKC's #12 looking for a good defensive big man, a guy like Holmes or Ware.
But it seems AK isn't interested in more draft picks.

What? Williams is a strong defender.

I don't think so.And he has been often injured.Not sure if he'd be a starter for a contender.

[Dez]

I don't see Giddey as a PF.This trade hopefully will be the first of moves involving Ball,Zach and Pat.
A backcourt with Coby and Giddey will be strong on offense but will need better defensive players than Pat and Vuc in the frontcourt.I wish AK could have made a better trade including OKC's #12 looking for a good defensive big man, a guy like Holmes or Ware.
But it seems AK isn't interested in more draft picks.

What? Williams is a strong defender.

I don't think so.And he has been often injured.Not sure if he'd be a starter for a contender.

You're thinking wrong then, there's a bit to be critical of Williams for but defense is not one of them.

[SfBull]

What? Williams is a strong defender.

I don't think so.And he has been often injured.Not sure if he'd be a starter for a contender.

You're thinking wrong then, there's a bit to be critical of Williams for but defense is not one of them.[/quote
He isn't by no means a top defender like Caruso.

[SfBull]

Makes me think they may well waive Lonzo or seek medical retirement.

envisioning the worst possible offseason in the wake of this move:

-waive and stretch lonzo instead of just taking the lump this year
-re-sign derozan to a 3 year, $90 million deal
-re-sign patrick williams to a 4 year, $100 million deal
-salary dump lavine to facilitate the above deals; get no picks or meaningful assets back in return
-draft kyle filipowski as a "pro ready rotation big who can space the floor"

Please don't.

[SfBull]

Yeah, zero percent change of this happening, at least to start the season, IMO.

That's equivalent to saying that there is zero chance that Zach remains on our roster, which I jave a very hard time believing.

If we don't flip Giddey, I'm guessing he plays "point forward" to lead the bench unit. Both because that will probably help us most next year, and cause it will depress his value going into RFA next summer.

Definitely increases the chance that Patrick is traded IMO.

There is a roughly a zero percent chance of Zach being on the roster.

Giddey was brought in to be the starting PG.

Not so sure about it if Lonzo comes back.

[SfBull]

I've never watched this guy, but on highlights he looks like a homeless man's Luka who can't shoot. But still, a homeless man's Luka is something.

I see him as the primary ball handler with the 2nd team playing 20 mpg.

Giddey has a lot of potential,I remember not liking when OKC drafted him passing on supposedly better players but having watched his games I really like him.
It was a B trade for me , it'd be an A if coming with a draft pick.

[Guru]

Long term is this team in a better place? Yes
Do I wish they got more? Yes
Does AKME know more than anyone what the best deal was? Yes

[Andi Obst]

Re-signing DeMar shouldn't be an option now. They can't possibly think that DeMar/Giddey can work, right? RIGHT!?

I hate the deal value-wise, but if it means that they're finally rebuilding I can live with it.

[SfBull]

you know who we should go after now, is obi toppin

let me at least watch some cool passes and dunks next year

Or drafting Holmes II from Dayton.

[rosenthall]

Some thoughts:

- I don't think this move signals a rebuild as much as some people think it does. Giddey has shown to be a serviceable player when given the ball, and there probably were trade packages that included a bunch of picks, but we chose this one because AK wants someone who projects to be a contributor.

- The timing of the trade suggests the team knows Demar is not coming back. The fact that this trade happened after the FA negotiating window but before draft and FA means they had enough time to discuss with Demar's agents and wanted to have this trade in place before they made other moves. I think DeMar is moved for something else, but I'm not sure what.

- I think this trade signals the return of Zach Lavine. If Giddey stays healthy this will be the first time in Zach's life that he'll play an entire year with a good distributor. I think there's a good chance that Zach's a lot easier to like when he has someone else to take care of the ball. I want the team to hold on to Zach to see if we can get 27 PPG, 60% TS Zach vs. sell him off for parts.

- I think Coby White ends up being the odd man out. Giddey-Zach-Pat is a coherent backcourt. Ayo fits in really well as a third wheel. If you project all 3 of those guys as being 30 MPG+ players, then the easiest way to balance out the roster is to move Coby for frontcourt help. I wonder if the Magic would consider moving Jonathan Isaac for Coby.

[fleet]

There’s gotta be picks on this, right?

Eh. What players are this FO drafting? Manuro. Nothing matters.

Did you mean to say menudo?

No, but may as well.