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2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7

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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#521 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:21 pm

League Circles wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
League Circles wrote:Can someone tell me why I'm wrong to think that Carter should be a top 4 or 5 pick and that we should be thrilled if we can grab him with our pick?

Not a rhetorical question.


Because he has zero star potential.

Can you elaborate on that? His wingspan is bigger than Bagley's, great scorer and rebounder, legit post game, great frame and strength for his age, probably the smartest player. What am I missing? I get that he's not an elite athlete like Ayton, Bagley or JJJ, but neither is Doncic or a number of stars in the NBA today.


It not about the measurables. He simply doesn't dominate games like an elite player should. Even when Bagley was out he didn't really take over. He should be solid, but you are screwed if you are building around him. Poor man's Horford sounds about right.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#522 » by sh0ck » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:30 pm

League Circles wrote:Can someone tell me why I'm wrong to think that Carter should be a top 4 or 5 pick and that we should be thrilled if we can grab him with our pick?

Not a rhetorical question.


Lack of foot speed means he's most likely planted at the Center position. But you worry that he would get abused on high screens where he'd have to chase around guards. Granted, I think his bball IQ will help him figure it out, but we aren't sure if he'll have the lateral quickness to keep up.

Lack of natural explosion makes him less of a threat as a rim protector, and not much of a lob threat.

Good jumper, but not a knockdown shooter. Would have to improve a lot of be a consistent pick-and-pop threat.

Jack of all, master of none traits make him a very safe pick, but not necessarily a high ceiling player.

I've heard quite a few comparisons to Al Horford, but I think people forget about how athletic Horford was coming into the NBA.

FWIW, I think he's on par as a prospect with Marvin Bagley due to his commitment on defense and high post play.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#523 » by bearadonisdna » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:33 pm

Axolotl wrote:I've been catching up on Porter lately, and while there is alot to like, I have been kind of left wondering why he was such a consensus #1 before his injury.

He looks like a well rounded player all in all, but looks like he is lacking effort, especially on the defensive side. His stance is too high and upright, and he just reacts slowly and sometimes even feebly. He doesn't have the hunger for defensive rebounds either. It looks like he is avoiding contact much more than he does on offence.

Although his bbiq doesn't seem bad, he is playing a me first -game. Lots of iso-ball and lone jumpers. His vertical is very good though, and his shooting is true.

Because his stance too high, his center of gravity is not low enough. Combined with not so strong core and lower body, he gets pushed around easily.

He pretty much always drives right, and if he is forced left, he settles for a jumper seldom looking for a pass. Even on offence, it looks like the effort is not always there. He often settles for a mid-range jumper even when a drive would be an option.

There is alot of upside too. He is a good finisher from all distances, and he has the tools to play good defence. He is an able ball handler, and could be a decent playmaker, if his thoughts were not always on me first -scoring. He could be a good two-way player, but that would need a change in attitude.

I get this feeling that he is a very good player and he knows it, and it makes him a bit lazy, especially on defence.



:lol: Reading this makes me want to go watch mpj highlights.
In a way i can describe his stock coming out of HS, the draft was described as transcendant.
After Porter goes down we are left with ayton(disappears), Doncic(Struggling from outside,not athletic) and Bagley (soft). Not sure if this draft has lived up to the billing.
Most of these players are polarizing though ayton does still seem to be the consensus number 1 despites this boards own narrative.

Gaudy scoring numbers in his HS games. Good tape vs other elite talents. Good physical measurements and attributes.
An established offensive skillset that seems translatable at the nba level, shooting.

And a respectable likable personality.
Its not always whats on the outside that counts.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#524 » by sco » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:35 pm

:clap:
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#525 » by TheHrvReport » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:37 pm

Axolotl wrote:I've been catching up on Porter lately, and while there is alot to like, I have been kind of left wondering why he was such a consensus #1 before his injury.

He looks like a well rounded player all in all, but looks like he is lacking effort, especially on the defensive side. His stance is too high and upright, and he just reacts slowly and sometimes even feebly. He doesn't have the hunger for defensive rebounds either. It looks like he is avoiding contact much more than he does on offence.

Although his bbiq doesn't seem bad, he is playing a me first -game. Lots of iso-ball and lone jumpers. His vertical is very good though, and his shooting is true.

Because his stance too high, his center of gravity is not low enough. Combined with not so strong core and lower body, he gets pushed around easily.

He pretty much always drives right, and if he is forced left, he settles for a jumper seldom looking for a pass. Even on offence, it looks like the effort is not always there. He often settles for a mid-range jumper even when a drive would be an option.

There is alot of upside too. He is a good finisher from all distances, and he has the tools to play good defence. He is an able ball handler, and could be a decent playmaker, if his thoughts were not always on me first -scoring. He could be a good two-way player, but that would need a change in attitude.

I get this feeling that he is a very good player and he knows it, and it makes him a bit lazy, especially on defence.

If you take out MPJ from that post, it's almost like your describing Zach Lavine to a T in the NBA currently
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#526 » by thebizkit » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:40 pm

The Bulls need to shoot for the stars here. Even if they miss, they can't play it safe anymore. If it comes down to either drafting a somewhat safe pick like Wendell Carter or a high ceiling high bust Trae Young, you gotta go with the latter. Even with Dunn on this team.

Even if it blows up in your face, you gotta try to find the next NBA star out of this group of players. Next year, who knows where the Bulls will be drafting and I will not hold out hope that the Bulls will pull in a guy like Zion or RJ.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#527 » by League Circles » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:42 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
League Circles wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Because he has zero star potential.

Can you elaborate on that? His wingspan is bigger than Bagley's, great scorer and rebounder, legit post game, great frame and strength for his age, probably the smartest player. What am I missing? I get that he's not an elite athlete like Ayton, Bagley or JJJ, but neither is Doncic or a number of stars in the NBA today.


It not about the measurables. He simply doesn't dominate games like an elite player should. Even when Bagley was out he didn't really take over. He should be solid, but you are screwed if you are building around him. Poor man's Horford sounds about right.

Do all NBA stars dominate games as college freshman? I don't follow college ball, but I had thought plenty didn't.

Teams will be lucky if there are one or two players that you "build around" in this entire draft (Doncic and Ayton most likely IMO). I don't really have that expectation. Certainly not in the 7-9 range.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#528 » by League Circles » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:44 pm

thebizkit wrote:The Bulls need to shoot for the stars here. Even if they miss, they can't play it safe anymore. If it comes down to either drafting a somewhat safe pick like Wendell Carter or a high ceiling high bust Trae Young, you gotta go with the latter. Even with Dunn on this team.

Even if it blows up in your face, you gotta try to find the next NBA star out of this group of players. Next year, who knows where the Bulls will be drafting and I will not hold out hope that the Bulls will pull in a guy like Zion or RJ.

There's a pretty good chance that zero NBA stars will be available at our pick though.

I hear you though. I'm not high on Young.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#529 » by Red Larrivee » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:48 pm

thebizkit wrote:The Bulls need to shoot for the stars here. Even if they miss, they can't play it safe anymore. If it comes down to either drafting a somewhat safe pick like Wendell Carter or a high ceiling high bust Trae Young, you gotta go with the latter. Even with Dunn on this team.

Even if it blows up in your face, you gotta try to find the next NBA star out of this group of players. Next year, who knows where the Bulls will be drafting and I will not hold out hope that the Bulls will pull in a guy like Zion or RJ.


If it blows up in their face, it's a pretty big deal. Everyone wants to shoot for the stars until they actually miss. I think the wrong assumption here is that there aren't safe players with high upside. A multi-dimensional big who plays good defense is a valuable piece. Is he a franchise savior? No, but there isn't a clear player like that in this draft.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#530 » by shakes0 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:49 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:Tyrus didn't fail due to lack of talent. Tyrus had an insane freshman season. Arguably better than Bagley or Ayton this year.

He failed because of what was between the ears.


:noway: :crazy: wait, what????????????? Did I just read that Tyrus Thomas had an arguably better freshman season than Bagley or Ayton? That has to be the single dumbest comment this thread has seen.


Thomas college stats: 12.3ppg, 9.3rpg

Bagley: 21.2/11.3

Ayton: 20.1/11
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#531 » by DASMACKDOWN » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:52 pm

shakes0 wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Tyrus didn't fail due to lack of talent. Tyrus had an insane freshman season. Arguably better than Bagley or Ayton this year.

He failed because of what was between the ears.


:noway: :crazy: wait, what????????????? Did I just read that Tyrus Thomas had an arguably better freshman season than Bagley or Ayton? That has to be the single dumbest comment this thread has seen.


Thomas college stats: 12.3ppg, 9.3rpg

Bagley: 21.2/11.3

Ayton: 20.1/11


I think he was talking about JJJ
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#532 » by Lauri_Legend » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:53 pm

I feel like walking away with Mo Bamba over Jaren Jackson Jr. would be a win for the Bulls on draft night for two reasons:

1) If they draft Bamba, they probably had a late Top 10 pick and he slipped that far.

2) Only way they get JJJ is if they land a Top 5 pick...and I don't like the idea of drafting JJJ in the Top 5.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#533 » by Red Larrivee » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:53 pm

League Circles wrote:Can someone tell me why I'm wrong to think that Carter should be a top 4 or 5 pick and that we should be thrilled if we can grab him with our pick?

Not a rhetorical question.


I'm not sure about a Top 5 pick, but Carter is a very good player. My biggest question with him is his quickness to defend in space. Aside from that, he's decent to solid in a lot of areas and turns 19 in April. His jump shot needs work, but he's not a bad shooter by any means.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#534 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:55 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
shakes0 wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Tyrus didn't fail due to lack of talent. Tyrus had an insane freshman season. Arguably better than Bagley or Ayton this year.

He failed because of what was between the ears.


:noway: :crazy: wait, what????????????? Did I just read that Tyrus Thomas had an arguably better freshman season than Bagley or Ayton? That has to be the single dumbest comment this thread has seen.


Thomas college stats: 12.3ppg, 9.3rpg

Bagley: 21.2/11.3

Ayton: 20.1/11


I think he was talking about JJJ

I mean TT as a frosh is basically JJJ as a frosh with much better rebounding and less time on the bench.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#535 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:56 pm

Lauri_Legend wrote:I feel like walking away with Mo Bamba over Jaren Jackson Jr. would be a win for the Bulls on draft night for two reasons:

1) If they draft Bamba, they probably had a late Top 10 pick and he slipped that far.

2) Only way they get JJJ is if they land a Top 5 pick...and I don't like the idea of drafting JJJ in the Top 5.

This is some horrible logic.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#536 » by thebizkit » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:01 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
thebizkit wrote:The Bulls need to shoot for the stars here. Even if they miss, they can't play it safe anymore. If it comes down to either drafting a somewhat safe pick like Wendell Carter or a high ceiling high bust Trae Young, you gotta go with the latter. Even with Dunn on this team.

Even if it blows up in your face, you gotta try to find the next NBA star out of this group of players. Next year, who knows where the Bulls will be drafting and I will not hold out hope that the Bulls will pull in a guy like Zion or RJ.


If it blows up in their face, it's a pretty big deal. Everyone wants to shoot for the stars until they actually miss. I think the wrong assumption here is that there aren't safe players with high upside. A multi-dimensional big who plays good defense is a valuable piece. Is he a franchise savior? No, but there isn't a clear player like that in this draft.


The biggest problem is you want to avoid NBA mediocrity. The Bulls are so far away from being a great team, that you have to allow for those risk's to blow up in your face. As much as I like Dunn and Lavine, I'm not sure what their actual ceilings are, same with Markkennen who has taken a step backwards. The Bulls are in desperate need that next step type of player, not just some guy who can contribute and become a role player. If the pick rest's on Upside vs Floor, you almost have to go with upside.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#537 » by bearadonisdna » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:05 pm

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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#538 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:06 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
thebizkit wrote:The Bulls need to shoot for the stars here. Even if they miss, they can't play it safe anymore. If it comes down to either drafting a somewhat safe pick like Wendell Carter or a high ceiling high bust Trae Young, you gotta go with the latter. Even with Dunn on this team.

Even if it blows up in your face, you gotta try to find the next NBA star out of this group of players. Next year, who knows where the Bulls will be drafting and I will not hold out hope that the Bulls will pull in a guy like Zion or RJ.


If it blows up in their face, it's a pretty big deal. Everyone wants to shoot for the stars until they actually miss. I think the wrong assumption here is that there aren't safe players with high upside. A multi-dimensional big who plays good defense is a valuable piece. Is he a franchise savior? No, but there isn't a clear player like that in this draft.


May not be a clear player like that, but there there are players like Carter that clearly are NOT that. If you happy winning 42 games then sure draft the safe choice.

Also how is tank thing working? I told you the Bulls could get around that player resting warning, but Silver had you scared to death. We would be destined for 9th following your guidance.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#539 » by thebizkit » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:13 pm

bearadonisdna wrote:
thebizkit wrote:
In running a franchise you have to at least minimize risk. If a move can blow up in your face you cant do it.


I think you have to take that chance every once in while. Sure if you are drafting in this top 3 you don't look to draft a guy like Bamba over guys like Bagley, Doncic or Ayton but at 7, 8 or 9 you gotta roll the dice a bit.
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Re: 2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7 

Post#540 » by League Circles » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:14 pm

thebizkit wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
thebizkit wrote:The Bulls need to shoot for the stars here. Even if they miss, they can't play it safe anymore. If it comes down to either drafting a somewhat safe pick like Wendell Carter or a high ceiling high bust Trae Young, you gotta go with the latter. Even with Dunn on this team.

Even if it blows up in your face, you gotta try to find the next NBA star out of this group of players. Next year, who knows where the Bulls will be drafting and I will not hold out hope that the Bulls will pull in a guy like Zion or RJ.


If it blows up in their face, it's a pretty big deal. Everyone wants to shoot for the stars until they actually miss. I think the wrong assumption here is that there aren't safe players with high upside. A multi-dimensional big who plays good defense is a valuable piece. Is he a franchise savior? No, but there isn't a clear player like that in this draft.


The biggest problem is you want to avoid NBA mediocrity. The Bulls are so far away from being a great team, that you have to allow for those risk's to blow up in your face. As much as I like Dunn and Lavine, I'm not sure what their actual ceilings are, same with Markkennen who has taken a step backwards. The Bulls are in desperate need that next step type of player, not just some guy who can contribute and become a role player. If the pick rest's on Upside vs Floor, you almost have to go with upside.

I don't see a player with superstar upside outside of the top 2, so IMO, the way to avoid NBA mediocrity is to properly tank next year, not to take the wrong player this summer.
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