GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2

[nomorezorro]

I want to see him level up this year.

rookies are famous for getting significantly better in the second half of their first year transitioning into a new league. it's called the "rookie wall" (because it's like they've climbed up a wall to ascend to a new level)

[ZOMG]

Stop it. He is a 19 year old rookie that didn't start in college. Everybody knew how raw he was. He has shown flashes of his potential. He had a great game as recently as Sunday. The kid needs to time grow. Writing him off already is ridiculous.

You know who sucked even more as a 19 year old and turned out pretty good? Zach LaVine.

Zach LaVine was the 13th pick! About the same spot where PWill should have gone - and would have, if not for the Bulls.

Stop pretending like we're playing four dimensional chess here. You don't use a top 5 pick on this type of player. LaMelo Ball is 19 as well, was picked one spot ahead of Patrick and he's already better than anyone of our guards not named Zach.

This pick was another blunder by the Bulls and it will haunt them.

What a comically bad take. Skip Bayless would be proud.

As I've said, Patrick may yet turn into a good player. But that's true for every rookie picked in the 1st round. Right now he's awful, and some flashes don't change that.

[HomoSapien]

Pat sort of has some similarities to Lauri in the sense that he just sort of quietly goes with the flow of things and rarely aggressively tries to impose his will on the game. Since he's so young, I'm willing to wait and see if that changes as he matures, but it's not something we can deal with long-term. We need guys who don't just exist on the court but consistently try to impact the game.

Williams wasn't my top choice, but this draft was already considered to be incredibly weak and was harder than most to evaluate given the abrupt end to the season. If there was ever a draft to take a gamble, this was it IMO.

All that said, Williams' prime is unlikely to coincide with Zach's. If he can bring us back something truly valuable in a trade, we should absolutely consider it.

[DuckIII]

I want to see him level up this year.

rookies are famous for getting significantly better in the second half of their first year transitioning into a new league. it's called the "rookie wall" (because it's like they've climbed up a wall to ascend to a new level)

Hmmmm.

[Ice Man]

Hmmmm.

Give him points for creativity.

[CobyWhite0]

What if it's WAS calling and offering Beal for Mr. Patrick Williams of the Chicago Bulls?

What if it's MIL calling and offering Middleton?

GS calls and offers Wiseman?

Obviously LeBron isn't going to offer AD, but there are players out there who at least make you go hmmmm

What if Riley calls and offer Jimmy?

[DuckIII]

If this sounds familiar it’s because I just wrote it in the post game thread. I’ve been blowing off complaints about his passivity this season based on his role and Donovan adopting a unique development strategy. And I still hold that view to a degree. But this is starting to become troubling.

In the last 10 games he is averaging 7.1 fga and 1.1 fta per game on about 28 mpg. And his defense has continued to be lost and passive in several games as well.

Come on man.

I’m going to hold out hope that there will be a “post-trade deadline bump” in his role and aggressiveness as the team picks a lane for the rest of the season. But these are poor signs regardless of how high I am on Patrick Lee Williams’ physical profile and skills. I don’t even need consistency. But we all need to see more than this.

And I know patience, 19, rookie wall, etc. and those things do matter to me. But that doesn’t mean what we see in the short term can’t be alarming.

[coldfish]

I'm pretty sure Pat is going to average 16.4p 8.3a and 4.8 rebounds a game the rest of the year. He is just hitting the rookie Wall, which we all know is named after John Wall. Invariably, all new players go through a transition period and become the rookie John Wall.

[nomorezorro]

i feel the same way about williams today that i did a month into the season, which is that he’s a long term project whose success or failure will not be defined by how much he improves in his rookie season. i guess i get being concerned that his passivity isn’t a problem that’s easily corrected, but otherwise i wouldn’t expect any player to meaningfully improve in season. (is this a wrong line of thinking? is there proof that successful players elevate their games over the course of their rookie year?)

it would be nice to see signs of increased comfort, sure (and i think some are there, even if they haven’t been as uniform or pronounced as one might hope). but the bottom line is, we’re still measuring the entirety of his nba career on a three-month timeline

[coldfish]

When draft night happened, I went back and looked at some film on Williams. The guy we are seeing is almost exactly the same guy as in college. I wasn't particularly happy with the pick at the time but I'll freely admit that his shooting is better than I anticipated and his general skill level is better.

That said . . . remember Andres Nocioni? Small forward who wasn't the most gifted athletically but played hard. He looked like a Honda Accord running around the track on nitrous. Pat looks like a Ferrari where someone pulled most of the spark plugs.

Hopefully either he or BD can figure out a way to put the spark plugs in.

[DuckIII]

i feel the same way about williams today that i did a month into the season, which is that he’s a long term project whose success or failure will not be defined by how much he improves in his rookie season. i guess i get being concerned that his passivity isn’t a problem that’s easily corrected, but otherwise i wouldn’t expect any player to meaningfully improve in season. (is this a wrong line of thinking? is there proof that successful players elevate their games over the course of their rookie year?)

it would be nice to see signs of increased comfort, sure (and i think some are there, even if they haven’t been as uniform or pronounced as one might hope). but the bottom line is, we’re still measuring the entirety of his nba career on a three-month timeline

I hope everyone can agree with you on this. I do. But I evaluate every rookie. What happens, happens. Some are good and some are bad. Some good is fools gold, some bad are false negatives. Time sorts it out.

Regardless, I’m not even talking about “improving.” I’m talking about not fading out of the picture. He’s going the wrong direction. And not just in a few games. But basically over 10 games. Maybe I suffer from PTLWD (post traumatic Lauri/Wendell disorder), and passivity is even more troubling to me than it need be. But I talk about the good and the bad. And this is bad.

[dawhizz]

I think Aminu could be a good mentor for Pat going forward.

[Wingy]

I think Aminu could be a good mentor for Pat going forward.

I hope he sends him to the bench until Pat can learn to be a little more aggressive. Not a lot mind you. I don't expect him to evolve overnight. I do hope BD is expecting him to show some signs if he's going to continue to log significant minutes.

[DASMACKDOWN]

You think Pat is going to give his number to Vuce?

[nomorezorro]

not sure how the starting lineup shakes out after the deadline, but pat as a stretch 4 playing next to two offensive stars would at least make his passiveness a little more bearable. would be nice to see him really focus on locking in on defense down the stretch

[chefo]

PaW is probably headed to the bench post trade. That Vuc trade is about as win-now as it gets... and unfortunately, Pat doesn't help you win much right now. That comes from somebody who likes the kid, but he's just not ready, on either side of the ball. He needs a couple of years before he's ready to play at a high level.

[bledredwine]

i feel the same way about williams today that i did a month into the season, which is that he’s a long term project whose success or failure will not be defined by how much he improves in his rookie season. i guess i get being concerned that his passivity isn’t a problem that’s easily corrected, but otherwise i wouldn’t expect any player to meaningfully improve in season. (is this a wrong line of thinking? is there proof that successful players elevate their games over the course of their rookie year?)

it would be nice to see signs of increased comfort, sure (and i think some are there, even if they haven’t been as uniform or pronounced as one might hope). but the bottom line is, we’re still measuring the entirety of his nba career on a three-month timeline

Bingo.

We can't expect to see a pro-active, dominating Pat this year... period. And he's a 19 year old, sharing the ball with some fairly iso-oriented players, despite how much our passing has improved.

It's going to happen after his off-season work ethic. The ceiling is there, the floor is clear, the physical gifts are there, and it's just a matter of what he improves and how much he can improve it. If he gets those handles going comfortably in both hands, adding a couple of moves? Watch out. The mentality usually improves with the confidence in skills.

I'm also more than ok with him coming off of the bench this year. Let him earn his minutes in the off/pre-season.

It doesn't make sense that we'd have a 19 year old who has the skills to dominate and just chooses not to.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Very curious to see how Williams is handled ROS.

Between needing to find frontcourt minutes for Lauri/Thad at the 4 (since Vuc is now the crunch time 5) and Temple/Brown at the 3 - along with what should be a win-now focus after sinking two 1sts into Vuc - I'm guessing Pat's minutes will trend closer to 20-24 mpg than the 28 mpg he's used to.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing, tbh. He spends an awful lot of the game playing cautious offensive basketball. Checking into the game and giving us 20 minutes of bursty play might be what the doctor ordered.

[Repeat 3-peat]

You think Pat is going to give his number to Vuce?

I can see Vuc wearing #5, his college number.

[DASMACKDOWN]

You think Pat is going to give his number to Vuce?

I can see Vuc wearing #5, his college number.

He was #4 in college. But #4 is retired here. Which is why he chose #9.

I wonder if he goes all in on the Kawhi standom and picks #2