Is Dalen Terry an NBA level player?

[GoBlue72391]

I've been saying since we drafted him that if Dalen can become a respectable shooter then he could be a valuable bench piece as a versatile, energy spark plug who can serve as a secondary/tertiary playmaker and 3&D lite player. That's a nice luxury to have as a 7th/8th/9th man.

Not sure what a guy like that will command on the open market, but he impacts the game when he's out there.

There were points where I thought it would never happen, but it seems like his shot has perhaps finally started to come around.

[eierluke]

He has improved every year and now has reached a level where he should remain in the NBA.
But let's not go overboard, ideally he should be the backup of a backup.
In 2026 when his contract is up he should get what he's worth: a warranted NBA minimum contract

[sco]

I've been saying since we drafted him that if Dalen can become a respectable shooter then he could be a valuable bench piece as a versatile, energy spark plug who can serve as a secondary/tertiary playmaker and 3&D lite player. That's a nice luxury to have as a 7th/8th/9th man.

Not sure what a guy like that will command on the open market, but he impacts the game when he's out there.

There were points where I thought it would never happen, but it seems like his shot has perhaps finally started to come around.

He has improved every year and now has reached a level where he should remain in the NBA.
But let's not go overboard, ideally he should be the backup of a backup.
In 2026 when his contract is up he should get what he's worth: a warranted NBA minimum contract

I have been hot and cold with him. He hasn't been consistent, but he's one of those hard offseason workers. IIRC, he did the Johnny-dribbles-alot this summer, but his handles are noticeably better. His 3pt shot is still below average, but his form and % are trending up. Barring a big uplift in his 3pt shooting, I think he's still a vet-min to tax payer MLE priced guy on his next deal. Right now he's a 10th man-level guy, who has 7th man upside, which is up from 15th man to start the season.

[MGB8]

I've been saying since we drafted him that if Dalen can become a respectable shooter then he could be a valuable bench piece as a versatile, energy spark plug who can serve as a secondary/tertiary playmaker and 3&D lite player. That's a nice luxury to have as a 7th/8th/9th man.

Not sure what a guy like that will command on the open market, but he impacts the game when he's out there.

There were points where I thought it would never happen, but it seems like his shot has perhaps finally started to come around.

He has improved every year and now has reached a level where he should remain in the NBA.
But let's not go overboard, ideally he should be the backup of a backup.
In 2026 when his contract is up he should get what he's worth: a warranted NBA minimum contract

I have been hot and cold with him. He hasn't been consistent, but he's one of those hard offseason workers. IIRC, he did the Johnny-dribbles-alot this summer, but his handles are noticeably better. His 3pt shot is still below average, but his form and % are trending up. Barring a big uplift in his 3pt shooting, I think he's still a vet-min to tax payer MLE priced guy on his next deal. Right now he's a 10th man-level guy, who has 7th man upside, which is up from 15th man to start the season.

The story isn’t fully written. It is so hard to project where players will end up. I was sure that the Bulls would have 5 years of bottom feeding… and while that is still a distinct possibility, Giddey and Matas’ and Coby’s play as of late create hopes of a competitive, if not quite contending, team.

As for Terry, he started the year at 37% from 3, declined, had some bounce back. Same really with his overall play. He isn’t quite the type of athlete that has superstar upside, but he is definitely an NBA level athlete, similar to Troy Brown or Tony Snell. Pretty good footspeed and short area quickness for a guy with his length (though not on quite par with the Thompson twins, who are also more explosive). Good all around foundations for skillsets, but needing a lot of polish and development.

For some guys, there are some physical limitations that mess with form or consistency (think Noah or Shaq’s wrists, possibly some stiffness with Dunn, too, Fultz’s shoulder / collar). For others, the athleticism is too marginal for them to be successful at the NBA level. Terry doesn’t seem to have either of those issues, so what is left is head, heart, and how much his natural talent lets him reach.

I wouldn’t be shocked if he is a late blooming guy who becomes a very solid rotation player, low tier starter on a good team. Aaron Wiggins started 24 games for the Thunder this season. 3 and D. Could,Terry be an Aaron Wiggins level player? I sure think so. Like I wrote before, on these end-of-rotation young players, you have to hope that the coaches have a good enough sense of who they are, whether they have the type of traits that will lead them to develop, so that whatever decision that they make - to keep or move on - proves right.

And I will say that while I’m not Donovan’s biggest fan, and think he has some weird blind spots, he (and his staff) seem pretty good about that aspect. We took a look at Troy Brown… moved on… he never showed. Stanley Johnson showed a bit more after he left, but not enough to stick anywhere. Gafford and Lauri looked better after leaving, though Lauri had started to flash the last month or so - and that was all Vuc trade driven. Etc. Strus was here and developed more, but can’t remember if that was Billy or before.

[WesPeace]

I think Terry showed some noticable progress this season, I like his 3pt shooting now,not just energy and defense he brings.

[dougthonus]

And I will say that while I’m not Donovan’s biggest fan, and think he has some weird blind spots, he (and his staff) seem pretty good about that aspect. We took a look at Troy Brown… moved on… he never showed. Stanley Johnson showed a bit more after he left, but not enough to stick anywhere. Gafford and Lauri looked better after leaving, though Lauri had started to flash the last month or so - and that was all Vuc trade driven. Etc. Strus was here and developed more, but can’t remember if that was Billy or before.

Always hard to say, but generally speaking, we haven't had a lot of young guys to develop or decide on, but generally, Ayo is the only non-lottery player hit we've had, and of our lottery guys, Pat / Matas, one looks good and one looks like a bust. In that sense, maybe Donovan is good at figuring out which guys can stick and which can't, but he certainly has influence into what guys we take a chance on, and we've not done well with getting guys whom are good. Limited sample size, but I don't really trust this FO. The guys that they have done well with were guys that fell massively and largely seemed like no brainer picks. Matas was mocked around 5 and Ayo was mocked as a late 1st.

FWIW, Strus was here under Boylen and tore his ACL, we weren't going to keep what looked like a marginal player that had to also recover from an ACL tear, so I don't blame anyone on that one.

[Ice Man]

Since Lauri, the Bulls haven't made any mistakes with the guys they have let go. There was some noise here about how the Bulls screwed up with Derrick Jones Jr., since he ended up playing meaningful minutes for the Western champs Mavs last season, but honestly he wasn't really anything more than a plug for the Mavs, and they didn't bother to re-sign him. I mean, we've looked at a whole lot of players recently, but it's not as if we've had many keepers.

[MGB8]

And I will say that while I’m not Donovan’s biggest fan, and think he has some weird blind spots, he (and his staff) seem pretty good about that aspect. We took a look at Troy Brown… moved on… he never showed. Stanley Johnson showed a bit more after he left, but not enough to stick anywhere. Gafford and Lauri looked better after leaving, though Lauri had started to flash the last month or so - and that was all Vuc trade driven. Etc. Strus was here and developed more, but can’t remember if that was Billy or before.

Always hard to say, but generally speaking, we haven't had a lot of young guys to develop or decide on, but generally, Ayo is the only non-lottery player hit we've had, and of our lottery guys, Pat / Matas, one looks good and one looks like a bust. In that sense, maybe Donovan is good at figuring out which guys can stick and which can't, but he certainly has influence into what guys we take a chance on, and we've not done well with getting guys whom are good. Limited sample size, but I don't really trust this FO. The guys that they have done well with were guys that fell massively and largely seemed like no brainer picks. Matas was mocked around 5 and Ayo was mocked as a late 1st.

FWIW, Strus was here under Boylen and tore his ACL, we weren't going to keep what looked like a marginal player that had to also recover from an ACL tear, so I don't blame anyone on that one.

I wasn’t so much talking about aiding player development. I agree with you there and have my doubts that about this staff having a significant impact on the natural trajectory of a player.

What I was talking about more was having a decent sense of a player’s natural trajectory, - their character and work ethic and limitations - and acting accordingly.

Of course, there is one huge exception - Pat and that contract. and that does make me wonder; but they also seemed to course correct after Pat on psychological profile / natural aggression, and Pat is reportedly both a hard worker and likeable person. Even his book isn’t written (though seems hard to project that contract to even be neutral anytime soon / ever; but crazier things have happened).

[meekrab]

Since Lauri, the Bulls haven't made any mistakes with the guys they have let go. There was some noise here about how the Bulls screwed up with Derrick Jones Jr., since he ended up playing meaningful minutes for the Western champs Mavs last season, but honestly he wasn't really anything more than a plug for the Mavs, and they didn't bother to re-sign him. I mean, we've looked at a whole lot of players recently, but it's not as if we've had many keepers.

It'd be nice if we still had Gafford but athletic bigs who can set screens and dunk lobs aren't exactly super difficult to find and at the time I was fine with the value we got for the trade. Obviously Kornet is the biggest loss from that deal but again it was impossible to forecast that he'd become a key role player for the Celtics.

[dougthonus]

I wasn’t so much talking about aiding player development. I agree with you there and have my doubts that about this staff having a significant impact on the natural trajectory of a player.

What I was talking about more was having a decent sense of a player’s natural trajectory, - their character and work ethic and limitations - and acting accordingly.

Yeah, I agree, was just adding the counterpoint that we haven't been good about finding players with a high natural trajectory, and just realizing a guy isn't so good doesn't strike me as nearly as useful a skill and probably kind of just happens by default when you see them day in and day out.

Of course, there is one huge exception - Pat and that contract. and that does make me wonder; but they also seemed to course correct after Pat on psychological profile / natural aggression, and Pat is reportedly both a hard worker and likeable person. Even his book isn’t written (though seems hard to project that contract to even be neutral anytime soon / ever; but crazier things have happened).

There are two things with Pat from my perspective:
1: I think there was a large misevaluation of his baseline. Why people thought he had all this great potential as a moderate athlete with basically no offensive skills is still beyond me to this day. He wasn't a great player in HS or College either. This projection just seemed nuts.

2: He does have some good baseline skills that can make him a valuable role player, but I think driving him in the wrong direction combined with some unfortunate injuries significantly impacting his practice time have both hurt him.

[eierluke]

In my phantasie, if both were available free agents, I'd certainly sign Terry over Pat Williams

[rosenthall]

In my phantasie, if both were available free agents, I'd certainly sign Terry over Pat Williams

I'd certainly take Terry on the contract that he's likely to get over the contract that we signed Pat to, but Terry hasn't shown to be a player worth committing to IMO.

He's improved this year, but only to a vet min level guy. His first two years he wasn't good enough to be in the league, but he's calmed his game down and Billy trusts him to play more minutes now. But if he were a FA this year, I can't imagine a team making him a priority.

He seems like the guy you sign at the end of FA after all the important players have signed and you're looking to fill out your roster.

If his shooting continues to improve he might be able to become 8th man quality, but as of now he's someone you use to fill out the end of your rotation.

[sco]

I'll say this about both Terry and Pwill. Right now, they are both 8th-9th man level players, but both are a good offseason of skill development away from 5th man level useful role players. Don't see either traded in the offseason.

[Jcool0]

What everyone is loving: 9.8 ppg on 10-16 from 3 over 6 games recently. Since then 4.1 ppg on 5-16 from 3 (7 games). Its nice he might not be a none pro player, but fringe NBA players are a dime a dozen. I hope the Bulls are at a point where they shouldn't be caring that much about this level of player.

[dougthonus]

What everyone is loving: 9.8 ppg on 10-16 from 3 over 6 games recently. Since then 4.1 ppg on 5-16 from 3 (7 games). Its nice he might not be a none pro player, but fringe NBA players are a dime a dozen. I hope the Bulls are at a point where they shouldn't be caring that much about this level of player.

He's presently the type of guy who can fit in towards the bottom of a rotation in an under 5M per year slot.

[Lunartic]

Poor man's Cameron Payne

[League Circles]

Dalen has more defensive upside potential than almost everyone on our roster other than Buzelis probably. If Ball ever plays he's obviously better, and I think Smith is underrated, but Dalen's defensive ceiling is higher than Ayo or probably even Patrick.

If we don't draft a wing or trade somebody, I'm actually expecting a legit 5 way competition in camp next year for our 5th starter between Ball, Ayo, Patrick, Huerter and Terry. Terry is probably the least likely as of now, but in his favor is that he potentially brings what the other 4 starters need most to complement them: a durable, very good versatile defender. Huerter and Ayo aren't as versatile, and Ball and Patrick aren't as durable. A lot depends on who starts at C. If it's Vuc again, I can see Terry having a chance. If it's Smith or Collins, probably not.

[sco]

Dalen has more defensive upside potential than almost everyone on our roster other than Buzelis probably. If Ball ever plays he's obviously better, and I think Smith is underrated, but Dalen's defensive ceiling is higher than Ayo or probably even Patrick.

If we don't draft a wing or trade somebody, I'm actually expecting a legit 5 way competition in camp next year for our 5th starter between Ball, Ayo, Patrick, Huerter and Terry. Terry is probably the least likely as of now, but in his favor is that he potentially brings what the other 4 starters need most to complement them: a durable, very good versatile defender. Huerter and Ayo aren't as versatile, and Ball and Patrick aren't as durable. A lot depends on who starts at C. If it's Vuc again, I can see Terry having a chance. If it's Smith or Collins, probably not.

Don't forget Jones. There's a decent chance he comes back. If so, I'd give him the nod. Honestly, if we are (barf) starting Vuc again next season, I wouldn't mind Smith as our 5th starter either.

[League Circles]

Dalen has more defensive upside potential than almost everyone on our roster other than Buzelis probably. If Ball ever plays he's obviously better, and I think Smith is underrated, but Dalen's defensive ceiling is higher than Ayo or probably even Patrick.

If we don't draft a wing or trade somebody, I'm actually expecting a legit 5 way competition in camp next year for our 5th starter between Ball, Ayo, Patrick, Huerter and Terry. Terry is probably the least likely as of now, but in his favor is that he potentially brings what the other 4 starters need most to complement them: a durable, very good versatile defender. Huerter and Ayo aren't as versatile, and Ball and Patrick aren't as durable. A lot depends on who starts at C. If it's Vuc again, I can see Terry having a chance. If it's Smith or Collins, probably not.

Don't forget Jones. There's a decent chance he comes back. If so, I'd give him the nod. Honestly, if we are (barf) starting Vuc again next season, I wouldn't mind Smith as our 5th starter either.

Jones is pretty good, and might be back (though tbh I doubt it), but IMO he won't and shouldn't be a starter. His primary benefits are defense at the 1 position and distribution. Giddey is going to be primary distributor, with Coby secondary, and although Jones is good defensively at the 1, that would leave us extremely weak defensively at the 2/3 where IMO he doesn't have the size to have the impact we need. We really need a defender who can defend primarily the 2, but also the 1 and 3 to switch with Coby or Giddey if they have a real tough matchup. That's why Ball and Terry are pretty ideal on D for that role, with Ayo and Patrick also better options.

[sco]

Dalen has more defensive upside potential than almost everyone on our roster other than Buzelis probably. If Ball ever plays he's obviously better, and I think Smith is underrated, but Dalen's defensive ceiling is higher than Ayo or probably even Patrick.

If we don't draft a wing or trade somebody, I'm actually expecting a legit 5 way competition in camp next year for our 5th starter between Ball, Ayo, Patrick, Huerter and Terry. Terry is probably the least likely as of now, but in his favor is that he potentially brings what the other 4 starters need most to complement them: a durable, very good versatile defender. Huerter and Ayo aren't as versatile, and Ball and Patrick aren't as durable. A lot depends on who starts at C. If it's Vuc again, I can see Terry having a chance. If it's Smith or Collins, probably not.

Don't forget Jones. There's a decent chance he comes back. If so, I'd give him the nod. Honestly, if we are (barf) starting Vuc again next season, I wouldn't mind Smith as our 5th starter either.

Jones is pretty good, and might be back (though tbh I doubt it), but IMO he won't and shouldn't be a starter. His primary benefits are defense at the 1 position and distribution. Giddey is going to be primary distributor, with Coby secondary, and although Jones is good defensively at the 1, that would leave us extremely weak defensively at the 2/3 where IMO he doesn't have the size to have the impact we need. We really need a defender who can defend primarily the 2, but also the 1 and 3 to switch with Coby or Giddey if they have a real tough matchup. That's why Ball and Terry are pretty ideal on D for that role, with Ayo and Patrick also better options.

I don't disagree, but IMO AK came out of the trade saying he wanted to keep Jones and essentially gave him the starting gig over Huerter. I think the reality is that Ayo, who I think was the odd man out and headed for an offseason trade, may have lowered his offseason trade value enough with the injury such that the Bulls may not trade him and the roster spot won't be there for Jones.

I think after Huerter and Ball, who IMO are both FAR ahead of the other 3, that Phillips is better than the other 3. Phillips does those little things on both ends, and doesn't need the ball to impact the game.