NBA Trade Thread #13

[JRoy]

Probably too big and complicated for a trade deadline move but I think it’s feasible.

Vuc to the lakers
Bulls picks, Ayton and kleber to the kings
White, Williams, Collins to Portland
Sabonis, Holiday, and thybulle to Chicago

Giddey/jones
Holiday/Ayo
Huerter/thybulle
Matas/Okoro/Noa
Sabonis/Smith

We don’t sacrifice our depth too much, we acquire someone who can actually score 40 (which I think is needed to be a true competitor in the nba) and holiday is a major X factor. With this trade we might be able to squeeze some picks out of Portland as well, considering they’re getting young talent for old vets on a trash team.

Moving forward, we’d only need to do one of two thing (imo). Either trade for a legit PF (ideally one elite defender) or a high level eventually replace holiday.

POR isn’t touching that deal.

[Chi town]

Probably too big and complicated for a trade deadline move but I think it’s feasible.

Vuc to the lakers
Bulls picks, Ayton and kleber to the kings
White, Williams, Collins to Portland
Sabonis, Holiday, and thybulle to Chicago

Giddey/jones
Holiday/Ayo
Huerter/thybulle
Matas/Okoro/Noa
Sabonis/Smith

We don’t sacrifice our depth too much, we acquire someone who can actually score 40 (which I think is needed to be a true competitor in the nba) and holiday is a major X factor. With this trade we might be able to squeeze some picks out of Portland as well, considering they’re getting young talent for old vets on a trash team.

Moving forward, we’d only need to do one of two thing (imo). Either trade for a legit PF (ideally one elite defender) or a high level eventually replace holiday.

POR isn’t touching that deal.

Bulls wouldn’t touch that either.

[Evil_Headband]

Fans are looking for a new home for Ja Morant. Even though the Bulls have the assets to make such a deal, I don't think he'd be a good fit. What do you think?

[ScrantonBulls]

Fans are looking for a new home for Ja Morant. Even though the Bulls have the assets to make such a deal, I don't think he'd be a good fit. What do you think?

Not a chance in hell. Bad attitude, a dumbass, and his game relies heavily on athleticism. I don't want him at all.

[ScrantonBulls]

Just for reference, Lively has only played 2 years. 20+ minutes a game with Gafford and AD. Biggest real problem is he's missed a lot of games, no chronic injuries. No reason to think he wouldn't play more without the center overload, would take the non-shooting for the lobs and the rest.

Per 36 last year: 13.6 pts, 11.7 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 2.4 blocks, .9 steals.

Per 100 possessions: 18.2 pts, 15.7 rebounds, 4.9 assists, 3.3 blocks, 1.1 steals. We're a running team now, one of the fastest paces (high possessions). We're averaging around 104 possessions/gm this year, I believe. Vuc was on the court for 101.8 possessions/gm last year according to Copilot. I know it may be inaccurate, better stats welcome from better sources.

Advanced: TS% 70.4, PER 20.1, VORP 1.1, BPM 3.3, DPBM 2.2

And he's only 21. Really want to say Coby and Ayo are better than Lively? Shall we compare their age 20 stats? Or even last years?
When you're comparing 7'1 good players to 6'4-6'5, think the 7'1 player automatically gets the tie, if there is one. There are so few talented 7'1 players as opposed to guards.

Definitely agree. Kind of surprised people are saying Ayo is untouchable. He's looked awesome, but it's only been 5 games. Look at how good lively was with Luka throwing him lobs. Giddey would work similarly well.

I'd trade Ayo for Lively on a heartbeat.

[ScrantonBulls]

So who is going to be the odd center out in Dallas? The Flagg at PG is ridiculous. So far, looks like Lively is only getting 17 minutes a game, and Gafford hasn't even played. The guard who should be starting at PG, D' Angelo Russell is only getting 20 mins. Klay Thompson and those legs are playing 21 mins, mostly at guard.

Coby White/Jalen Smith for Daniel Gafford/Max Christie and a first. Dallas is sucking, Coby looks great and can jump immediately into the starting spot. They get a reserve center in Smith who doesn't need minutes.

Would rather trade for Lively, of course. Thoughts?

Ayo for Lively.

Coby worth way more than Lively.

I’m not even much of a Liveky fan but he would certainly help us with rim protection and open our offense more with lobs.

I don't know if the Mavs would do Lively for Coby. They could definitely use another scoring guard next to Kyrie when he returns. I would trade Coby for Lively.

[Dez]

So who is going to be the odd center out in Dallas? The Flagg at PG is ridiculous. So far, looks like Lively is only getting 17 minutes a game, and Gafford hasn't even played. The guard who should be starting at PG, D' Angelo Russell is only getting 20 mins. Klay Thompson and those legs are playing 21 mins, mostly at guard.

Coby White/Jalen Smith for Daniel Gafford/Max Christie and a first. Dallas is sucking, Coby looks great and can jump immediately into the starting spot. They get a reserve center in Smith who doesn't need minutes.

Would rather trade for Lively, of course. Thoughts?

Ayo for Lively.

Coby worth way more than Lively.

I’m not even much of a Liveky fan but he would certainly help us with rim protection and open our offense more with lobs.

Come on, Coby isn't worth more than Lively.

[ScrantonBulls]

So who is going to be the odd center out in Dallas? The Flagg at PG is ridiculous. So far, looks like Lively is only getting 17 minutes a game, and Gafford hasn't even played. The guard who should be starting at PG, D' Angelo Russell is only getting 20 mins. Klay Thompson and those legs are playing 21 mins, mostly at guard.

Coby White/Jalen Smith for Daniel Gafford/Max Christie and a first. Dallas is sucking, Coby looks great and can jump immediately into the starting spot. They get a reserve center in Smith who doesn't need minutes.

Would rather trade for Lively, of course. Thoughts?

Ayo for Lively.

Coby worth way more than Lively.

I’m not even much of a Liveky fan but he would certainly help us with rim protection and open our offense more with lobs.

Come on, Coby isn't worth more than Lively.

Agreed. But the Mavs could use more firepower at the guard position. Coby could keep them afloat and work well next to Kyrie IMO. I wonder if Coby (or Ayo) + a 1st would get it done for Lively. They have a bad cap situation, so it makes things tricky.

[WesPeace]

Ayo for Lively.

Coby worth way more than Lively.

I’m not even much of a Liveky fan but he would certainly help us with rim protection and open our offense more with lobs.

Come on, Coby isn't worth more than Lively.

Agreed. But the Mavs could use more firepower at the guard position. Coby could keep them afloat and work well next to Kyrie IMO. I wonder if Coby (or Ayo) + a 1st would get it done for Lively. They have a bad cap situation, so it makes things tricky.

dude what?? Coby/Ayo and 1st for Lively?? I'm sorry but what? Lively aint all star guy or star center. Lively and Gafford are two splitting minutes centers, two defensive centers, but not really much from them on offensive side, except lob threats. You wanna trade 20+ ppg young guard and 1st rounder? Thats just bad asset managament, especially if we can very likely resign both Coby and Ayo and still be easily under the cap team.

For Lively you trade different assets, he aint worth future on guard position or 1st rounder at this stage.

[sco]

Come on, Coby isn't worth more than Lively.

Agreed. But the Mavs could use more firepower at the guard position. Coby could keep them afloat and work well next to Kyrie IMO. I wonder if Coby (or Ayo) + a 1st would get it done for Lively. They have a bad cap situation, so it makes things tricky.

dude what?? Coby/Ayo and 1st for Lively?? I'm sorry but what? Lively aint all star guy or star center. Lively and Gafford are two splitting minutes centers, two defensive centers, but not really much from them on offensive side, except lob threats. You wanna trade 20+ ppg young guard and 1st rounder? Thats just bad asset managament, especially if we can very likely resign both Coby and Ayo and still be easily under the cap team.

For Lively you trade different assets, he aint worth future on guard position or 1st rounder at this stage.

I wouldn't add a 1st for Lively, but Ayo straight-up works in trade machine and for me.

[Infinity2152]

Don't think anyone said they would give a first for Lively. I suggested we would receive a first, Max Christie and Gafford in a Coby/Smith trade.

Simple fact: We have two expiring guards, along with a ton of other guards, 2 with guaranteed contracts. Only center under contract next year is Smith

Mavs have two centers who are good and NOT expiring, plus a ton of other big men. Kyrie's out for the year and Klay Thompson is more an SF now.

Both teams have multiple guys on roster who can somewhat replace what they're sending out. This is one of those deals that even out both teams, and both teams could legitimately win.

They don't have to be EXACTLY equal in value, just generally, if the position is more valuable to your team. Contract matters too. Coby is $12 mill now and could be $30+ mill next year. $48 mill plus over 2 years. Lively is $5.2 and $7.2 mill next year. $12.4 mill over two years.

Coby at $25 mill next year puts him at $37 over 2 years vs $12.4 mill. Is Coby worth 3 times as much as Lively?

Lively/Coby trade likely looks like Coby White/Phillips for Lively/ either Caleb Martin or Naji Marshall. I'd try to get a protected first back then, because we're taking on $9 mill with Marshall or Martin. Dallas save $16 mill off 2026 cap with Lively and Marshall, that covers Coby pay raise to $28 mill next summer and Kyrie is hopefully back.

[ScrantonBulls]

Don't think anyone said they would give a first for Lively. I suggested we would receive a first, Max Christie and Gafford in a Coby/Smith trade.

Simple fact: We have two expiring guards, along with a ton of other guards, 2 with guaranteed contracts. Only center under contract next year is Smith

Mavs have two centers who are good and NOT expiring, plus a ton of other big men. Kyrie's out for the year and Klay Thompson is more an SF now.

Both teams have multiple guys on roster who can somewhat replace what they're sending out. This is one of those deals that even out both teams, and both teams could legitimately win.

They don't have to be EXACTLY equal in value, just generally, if the position is more valuable to your team. Contract matters too. Coby is $12 mill now and could be $30+ mill next year. $48 mill plus over 2 years. Lively is $5.2 and $7.2 mill next year. $12.4 mill over two years.

Coby at $25 mill next year puts him at $37 over 2 years vs $12.4 mill. Is Coby worth 3 times as much as Lively?

Lively/Coby trade likely looks like Coby White/Phillips for Lively/ either Caleb Martin or Naji Marshall. I'd try to get a protected first back then, because we're taking on $9 mill with Marshall or Martin. Dallas save $16 mill off 2026 cap with Lively and Marshall, that covers Coby pay raise to $28 mill next summer and Kyrie is hopefully back.

The Mavs are high on Christie and he's been balling this year. He's under contract 3 years at a cheap rate. I don't think they'd want to include him in a trade for Coby, especially if they have to give up a pick.

I can't get any trades to work with the Mavs on the ESPN trade machine. The new luxury tax rules makes things difficult. I wonder if ESPNs trade machine is busted.

Also, isn't Kyrie returning this season? Unless by "year" you mean out for 2025.

[Infinity2152]

Yeah, I'm projecting salary in 2026 for Dallas, when Coby would have to be paid. I definitely consider Coby more valuable than Gafford, they'd have to add more value for that trade, such as Christie. Getting Coby would minimize Christie's opportunities anyway, They'd already have Russell, Irving, White, Thompson at guard. Pick is ideal in that trade, but it could either be Christie or the pick, ideally both if Coby is playing well and Gafford's not getting minutes.

Plus they're getting Smith to replace some of Gafford's minutes, upgrade at starting SG, downgrade at backup center for the Mavs.

[ScrantonBulls]

Come on, Coby isn't worth more than Lively.

Agreed. But the Mavs could use more firepower at the guard position. Coby could keep them afloat and work well next to Kyrie IMO. I wonder if Coby (or Ayo) + a 1st would get it done for Lively. They have a bad cap situation, so it makes things tricky.

dude what?? Coby/Ayo and 1st for Lively?? I'm sorry but what? Lively aint all star guy or star center. Lively and Gafford are two splitting minutes centers, two defensive centers, but not really much from them on offensive side, except lob threats. You wanna trade 20+ ppg young guard and 1st rounder? Thats just bad asset managament, especially if we can very likely resign both Coby and Ayo and still be easily under the cap team.

For Lively you trade different assets, he aint worth future on guard position or 1st rounder at this stage.

Most metrics point to Lively being better than Coby. Whether that's box score metrics (PER, BPM) or advanced metrics like RAPM. Lively crushes Coby in those metrics. I know the sample size is pretty small for Lively and he doesn't play as many minutes per game, but he's been really efficient in the minutes he plays. Factor in that he's under contract cheaply and for another year - I definitely think he is more valuable than Coby. He was an important piece for the Mavs during that finals run. He'd be awesome with Giddey.

[BullsSD]

Been thinking about strats this year for AKME and I hope whatever they do, they are trying to accumulate mid to late first round picks. The way the lotto is structured now, those are hitting. And with how deep this draft is, if we could parlay Vuc and another asset for a late first, and then possibly move up to a middle tier lotto pick-- just imagine if we add a top 3 pick to this team next year. The youth + success movement will be firing on all cylinders.

[Infinity2152]

It's probably way harder to grab lottery picks right now than usual. A lot of teams have traded multiple firsts and/or can't trade firsts, and every team is against or over the cap, so rookie contracts will have more value. Trading Lavine for mostly a lottery pick, Caruso for Giddey, trading Ball for 24 year old Okoro, looks like a massive shift to adding young talent while trading older vets.

Would love to add a lottery pick, but adding young talent like Kuminga or Lively looks more likely and I'm fine with that. Coby should be able to get one. Vuc at his age and expiring probably won't even if he plays exceptionally well. Plus he's likely to lower the draft pick of whatever team he's going to if he's playing great.

We want to get a first for any expiring not named Coby, we probably have to takes some long-term money back, extra year or two. Clearing long term money PLUS the player value might be worth a first to somebody. That would be fine too, as long as the contract is not really bad.

[Infinity2152]

We don't trade for a center this year, what do we do this summer? Vucevic will probably be the top FA center, with Collins not far behind. Looks like most have soured on Smith. We could draft one, but he'd be a rookie.

Any change in the temp around Vucevic? He's not ideal, but realistically the ideal option may not be available. These Bulls are playing well with him starting, whatever flaws people see. Without Coby and with Okoro playing poorly. He's been kind of huge in this run. Even if we still look for a starting center prospect, and we should, I think I'd pay Vucevic $15-$25 mill to play starter till we get someone better, sixth man and injury replacement after that on a two-year extension. Centers are SUPER injury prone, it seems.

[Repeat 3-peat]

When, or how did a rim running center that averages 5-5, and is injury prone have so much value???

[Infinity2152]

List of centers who would not be considered injury prone is pretty damn short. Certainly not Wemby, Embid, Porzinga, Anthony Davis or Holgrem, five of the best 7 footers. Kessler played 58 games last year, 64 the year prior. Hartenstin's first four years, he played 28, 23, 46, 30. You got a few iron men like Vucevic, Jokic, Adebayo, but seems like most centers get injured pretty often. Gafford misses a lot. Wendell Carter Jr.. Collins is out right now. Pretty much most starting centers I can think of.

We've got maybe the only one that's averaged over 70 games the last 5 years, and we're trying to bumrush him out the door, lmao!

[ScrantonBulls]

When, or how did a rim running center that averages 5-5, and is injury prone have so much value???

Imagine looking at a 3 game sample size to determine what a player averages. Just lol.