Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

[P.C.]

If the Bulls feel they're getting the 2nd best player in the draft with the #7 pick, what does it matter what number he was selected at?

If that winds up being the case than sure. I just think that Beal, Barnes, Robinson and likely MKG will all be better players than whoever goes at #7

I was thinking this through yesterday. If Barnes and Beal are off the table at 7, and it sure looks like that's going to be the case, you have to imagine they're going to select Austin Rivers right?

I mean, even the Bulls with their loyal *ahem* fanbase need to take a player with some star power if they're shipping an allstar. I actually wouldn't mind seeing Rivers in a Bulls uniform. He's the best isolation scorer in the draft and we need an isolation scorer. It's still a horrible deal as currently constituted, mind you.

[RoseTheFuture22]

Awful trade for Chicago. Just mind numbingly bad. Harris and others expire after this year. In the long term, you are basically trading Deng and two draft picks for the #7 pick. The capspace won't even have much value because the team won't be able to offer a max contract.

I can't believe it at this point. No way the Bulls are this dumb or desperate to avoid tax.

Unfortunately that's what its probably going to take to trade Deng, you can go a little higher and get the #5 but you'd still be doing the same thing with Salmons. After this year I think we'd have to amnesty Boozer but then the future is potentially bright with a core of Rose, Lamb, Noah, Mirotic, Taj, and the capspace to go sign a guy like Iguodala, Josh Smith, or go after some restricted FAs.

[ChicagoStrong]

Defense is overrated.

Thibbs defensive system even makes Boozer look decent sometimes.

Bulls need explosive scorers.

Stop it.

Look at OKC.

[Tommy Udo 6]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-trade-rum ... -the-block

Luol Deng – The Chicago Bulls are weighing all of their options and could trade Luol Deng prior to the draft. Chicago would love to move into the lottery and they’d be willing to part with Deng if the right deal came along. The Bulls are upset that Deng is representing Britain in the Olympics rather than undergoing surgery to repair a torn ligament in his left wrist. Deng has heard the recent trade rumors and has accepted the fact that he may be dealt in the near future, according to sources close to the forward. Chicago would love to add a young star that could develop alongside Derrick Rose. The Golden State Warriors, holding the seventh pick in the draft, have expressed significant interest in Deng. When Britain’s national team started their training camp in Houston this week, Golden State’s East Coast scout Speedy Claxton was in attendance to take a look at Deng.

[thedarkstark]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-trade-rumors-whos-on-the-block?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=nba-trade-rumors-whos-on-the-block

poopsworld, where information goes to die.

[imagge]

I don't get why this proposed Golden State/Utah trade is such a horrible deal, assuming the 2013 pick has decent protection on it in case everything falls apart.

Think about it:

(1) Devin Harris fills in for Rose for a year. A huge downgrade, but at least Devin Harris is a legit, if mediocre, starting PG in the league.

(2) Dorrell Wright is a fine rotation SF.

(3) Combined, both make less money than Deng.

(4) Both of them expire at the same time as Deng.

(5) One or both could potentially be traded as a pure salary dump after (or during) next season.

It's not an idea move because neither salary expires after this upcoming season (both guys have 2 years left on their deals). And it's certainly not a great trade, because we should be able to get both cap relief and a mid-lotto pick for Deng.

But if the Bulls are looking for a way to not suck next season....

Even better they both expire a year before Deng. They both would be expiring contracts this coming season

[DanTown8587]

@DanTown .. just guessing but maybe because the GS deal allows the Bulls to sell high on Deng, whom they may not want to re-sign after his deal is up? It also allows us to compete with the expiring contracts and re-sign our defensive backbone, Asik and Taj. Also, the FO may have targeted Lamb as Deng's replacement and Rose's future running mate.

Re-read my objection to the three way deal. It's not about trading Deng, it's that the trade you're making is a bad trade considering the other trades available to you. I'm against trading Deng but if you're going to trade Deng, get the most return you can. That three way deal is not that.

[Mech Engineer]

The main thing the Bulls need to do is make sure whatever player they get is a possible #2 if they are sacrificing Deng

[coldfish]

If the Bulls feel they're getting the 2nd best player in the draft with the #7 pick, what does it matter what number he was selected at?

If that winds up being the case than sure. I just think that Beal, Barnes, Robinson and likely MKG will all be better players than whoever goes at #7

Wasn't Deng drafted #7? Isn't he a better ball player than the player drafted #2 OKafor? I would almost argue he is a better basketball player than 5 of the 6 players drafted ahead of him. The best basketball players are not always drafted in order. If the scouting department feel there is a potential star @ #7 then #7 it is.

The Bulls felt that Gordon was a better player than Deng just that year and took him at 3. They also thought that Tyrus Thomas was better than Aldridge and Gay. They thought that James Johnson was better than Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teauge, Collison, Gibson, Blair and Marcus Thornton.

Just because the FO likes a guy it doesn't mean they are right. The Bulls are a better drafting team than many but even then, their odds of actually getting the best player available historically are much less than 50/50.

[Cliff Levingston]

I don't get why this proposed Golden State/Utah trade is such a horrible deal, assuming the 2013 pick has decent protection on it in case everything falls apart.

Think about it:

(1) Devin Harris fills in for Rose for a year. A huge downgrade, but at least Devin Harris is a legit, if mediocre, starting PG in the league.

(2) Dorrell Wright is a fine rotation SF.

(3) Combined, both make less money than Deng.

(4) Both of them expire at the same time as Deng.

(5) One or both could potentially be traded as a pure salary dump after (or during) next season.

It's not an idea move because neither salary expires after this upcoming season (both guys have 2 years left on their deals). And it's certainly not a great trade, because we should be able to get both cap relief and a mid-lotto pick for Deng.

But if the Bulls are looking for a way to not suck next season....

Cliff Levingston doesn't mind it, but if next year's first was somehow not involved, that would be better. Without Rose and Deng, we can't count on being at the top of the standings again.

If the Bulls are convinced that they need a second big-time scorer alongside Rose then, obviously outside of Boozer, there's no better player on the roster right now to trade than Deng. He'll miss the beginning of the season, his value has never been higher and he's slated to make a sh*t ton of money the next two seasons before being up for extension at the age of 29. If we can get Jeremy Lamb and he ends up being James Harden-esque in terms of his ability (minus the finals hopefully) then that would be a homerun of a deal. Pretty big if but we do know how Reinsdorf is about paying the tax.

[DanTown8587]

If Toronto is looking to do Calderon an their pick just for Deng, why would the Bulls not do that deal? Or if you want to take on two year salary, Salmons and the five for Deng? The GS deal is a bad deal considering your other options.

Help me out: are there some rumors that Toronto is interested for a Trade like that or did Toronto even mentioned something like that?

The Toronto option would be much better, I like it.

There are numerous reports that Toronto is interested in Deng. There are reports that Toronto is interested in trading the 8th pick for a veteran.

However, I have seen no specific report of any offer to the Bulls

It was posted last week in the middle of the week, I'm not sure if it was a "sources tell me" or a "gut feeling" post but it was one of the guys who said they have sources on the board. I guess I shouldn't use that as an offer.

[Deepness5134]

Defense is overrated.

Thibbs defensive system even makes Boozer look decent sometimes.

Bulls need explosive scorers.

Stop it.

Look at OKC.

There is a difference between Brooks and Thibs. Yes you need defensive players, but you also need a good coach for something like that. Between Rose/Noah/Butler...that right there is a decent start at a good defense. W/e rookie we bring in is going to be groomed and grown in thibs system...at worst I'd expect our new guy to be an above average defender.

What we don't have however, are explosive scorers. I don't think we need 3 like OKC...but two explosive scorers and another creator would be ideal. Getting a great Scrorer in this draft would go a long way in winning.

[blumeany]

I think the trade for Deng all comes down to how confident the Bulls are that the guy they want will be there at #7 and how confident they are that that guy will develop into a all-star-caliber player to replace Deng.

Everything else is ok. Pick protection is a moot point IMO. The Bulls will be a good team, even without Rose for the portion of the regular season. People forget how god-awful the East is. Once Rose comes back, the Bulls will be perennial contenders again. So, any Bulls draft pick is going to be a late rounder - mid rounder at best.

The two contracts they are taking are expiring. Can't remember what the rule is, but could they possibly be traded this season? That would be great, but the fact that they are expiring is good enough.

So, you basically allow yourselves to get a higher draft pick (which you need - good, young, cheap talent), more cap space to re-sign guys like Asik and Taj (guys who have performed very well for you, who will probably be signed to reasonable contracts in case you have to move them in the future), and you (should) avoid the luxury tax on a team that most likely won't go all the way this year.

The Bulls HAVE to take a gamble like this, because they HAVE to get better. Deng is not getting any better. He is what he is. This trade is *similar* to what Krause did when he traded Brand and swung for the fences with Chander/Curry - the BIGGEST difference being that Brand was your supposed franchise player. This time around, that's not the case.

Do we still need to have an elite defense? Yes. Will our defense alone get us a title? No. Would it be so much better if we could trade Boozer. Yes. But we probably can't right now, so we need to keep him on as our #3. So yes, blame GarPax for putting us in this cap-hell situation. They had a vision that the current crew could pull it off, but injuries and unmet expectations put an end to that.

[xpmar9x]

If we traded for Devin, I would love to be able to sign him to an extension for like 3 years/10mil.. or something reasonable like that. I'm sure he could leave and go else where for more money... but hopefully he's more focused on winning than cash.

I like Dorrell Wright, and think he's a servicable starter. In '10-'11 he played legit minutes (38.4), and average 16.4 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 3.0 APG, shooting 38% from 3. If we could get that production, i'd be more than happy.

Then it comes down to #7... who do we love? I'm assuming Lamb (who's a perfect fit behind RIP).

[imagge]

Duke’s Austin Rivers seems to be one of the players on a meteoric rise, possibly as high as #6 to Portland.

Wonder if Rivers is the target at #7

[TheSuzerain]

Oh god not Rivers.

[jmajew]

Do we still need to have an elite defense? Yes. Will our defense alone get us a title? No. Would it be so much better if we could trade Boozer. Yes. But we probably can't right now, so we need to keep him on as our #3. So yes, blame GarPax for putting us in this cap-hell situation. They had a vision that the current crew could pull it off, but injuries and unmet expectations put an end to that.

I don't think we can put 100% of the blame on Gar/Pax for the cap-hell situation we are in. How were they supposed to be able to predict how damaging this new CBA was giong to be for teams that are in the luxury tax. Heck I look at Miami, for the next 4 years they will have a team payroll over 70 mil and the big three will account for 52 mil, 57 mil, 61 mil, and 66 mil. That does not include the contracts they have for Haslem (32), Mike Miller (32), Joel Anthony (29) and Shane Battier (33). They are in a scary bad situation in my book.

I think Miami is going to have a bench that is already lacking and will not age very well. I will take a moneyball approach to how to build a team in this new environment. You pay your best players what they are worth, then you fill out the rest of the roster with players on short term deals or rookie contracts who are in their primes. You can keep your best players past their prime, but a team should try to never have a bench of players who are past their prime

Again I do not blame Gar/Pax for the situation we are in. They built a team based on the rules they were given to play with at the time. Now the rules have changed and they have to adjut. Just like the Lakers, Heat, Thunder, and Knicks. I believe their intent with all fo the unguaranteed contracts we currently have to make a big trade this offseason that would put us substantially over the Luxury Tax. Wouldn't it have been nice to traded those and picks for Kevin Martin? Rose, Martin, Deng, Boozer, Noah would be a great team.

[xpmar9x]

Could we do this:

DAL gets:
Devin Harris

CHI gets:
#17, #7, Wright, and Biedrins

Utah gets:
Shawn Marion, CJ Watson, #29 (CHI), Bulls '13 (lotto protected)

GSW gets:
Luol Deng

[thedarkstark]

[
If that winds up being the case than sure. I just think that Beal, Barnes, Robinson and likely MKG will all be better players than whoever goes at #7

Wasn't Deng drafted #7? Isn't he a better ball player than the player drafted #2 OKafor? I would almost argue he is a better basketball player than 5 of the 6 players drafted ahead of him. The best basketball players are not always drafted in order. If the scouting department feel there is a potential star @ #7 then #7 it is.

The Bulls felt that Gordon was a better player than Deng just that year and took him at 3. They also thought that Tyrus Thomas was better than Aldridge and Gay. They thought that James Johnson was better than Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teauge, Collison, Gibson, Blair and Marcus Thornton.

Just because the FO likes a guy it doesn't mean they are right. The Bulls are a better drafting team than many but even then, their odds of actually getting the best player available historically are much less than 50/50.

You are making assumptions. Did the Bulls feel that Gordon was better than Deng? Or did they feel they feel Gordon would be gone by 7, while Deng would still be there? Same for Johnson/Taj.

Teams with 2 picks do that type of thing all the time. You read the market on a guy and draft him accordingly, it's why teams trade back. Why "reach" on a guy you know you can get later?

And for the record, Paxson really has only had 1 bad pick (Tyrus) and it's the one time he didn't listen his gut, and went with high upside / poor character.

Even guys like JJ and Thabo who didn't pan out here, are having pretty good careers elsewhere. Even his 2nd round picks have been great with the exception of JamesOn Curry and Tommy Smith.

[xpmar9x]

Could we do this:

DAL gets:
Devin Harris

CHI gets:
#17, #7, Wright, and Biedrins

Utah gets:
Shawn Marion, CJ Watson, #29 (CHI), Bulls '13 (lotto protected)

GSW gets:
Luol Deng

If we did that trade I proposed, we'd look like:

Rose - MMLE - JL3?
Rip - #7 (Lamb)
Wright - #17 (Miller)
Boozer - Gibson
Noah - Asik? - Biedrins