Asik Discussion. Pg 50 Sheridan: Bulls will match

[The Machine]

I wouldn't pay for someone who can't catch a pass, or bother to learn new offensive moves.

Bulls should take the Asik money and improve the bench mob.

[boogydown]

camby had more skill

Fixed

[DanTown8587]

so Offensive Rebounding where his rate is in the top 10 throughout the league, and huge screens aren't part of the offense anymore.

Its all about buckets son...

bulls offensive rating with Omer on the floor: 98.8
Teams since 2004-05 with offense that bad: 1 (Charlotte last year)

Come on. There isn't a single player in the Bulls rotation lower than 101.7 (CJ).

[Magilla_Gorilla]

The Knicks just paid 39 year old Marcus Camby 4.5 million dollars a year for 3 years. Good backup bigs aren't cheap.

camby has more skill and a deeper resume than asik past, now and moving forward. AND, fwiw, if asik's deal was the same as camby, the bulls wouldn't be wavering.

So you agree that skilled backup bigs cost money and we're not going to be able to get one for the vet min or 'on the cheap. Good. Glad we're on the same page.

[DanTown8587]

The Knicks just paid 39 year old Marcus Camby 4.5 million dollars a year for 3 years. Good backup bigs aren't cheap.

camby has more skill and a deeper resume than asik past, now and moving forward. AND, fwiw, if asik's deal was the same as camby, the bulls wouldn't be wavering.

So you agree that skilled backup bigs cost money and we're not going to be able to get one for the vet min or 'on the cheap. Good. Glad we're on the same page.

You agree that you shouldn't pay a backup center the MAXIMUM?

[DuckIII]

Bulls should take the Asik money and improve the bench mob.

Asik is part of the bench mob, but I digress. How do you propose they do this? It is my understanding that not signing Asik does NOT operate to free up any capspace to make additional signings.

Am I wrong about that? If I'm not wrong, then how does letting this unique (sorry guys, the NBA has spoken, and Asik has consistently had trade value and was the only Bull an NBA team made an offseason priority) asset walk for nothing improve the Chicago Bulls.

Ignore that you don't like Asik. You don't even have to like him to understand the idea of asset retention. How does this help us?

[The Machine]

We will find out in a couple of days from the bulls if they keep Asik or let him go.

As I'm hearing on the radio the Bulls don't want to pay the cap at all.

[BULLHITTER]

So you agree that skilled backup bigs cost money and we're not going to be able to get one for the vet min or 'on the cheap. Good. Glad we're on the same page.

did the bulls sign him for 15 mil over the next 3 seasons? if so, then yes, yes we are.

camby had more skill

Fixed

really? what can asik do other than clog the paint and raise his arms, BETTER than camby? to THIS day? time to examine those "advanced stats" cause projections are all that asik's resume will pull up; not actual production. folks like to talk about those "unseen" and non-statistcal aspects of asik's game. well, i posit that the asik mob has to do that because the actual production isn't there.

[1rage]

I wouldn't pay for someone who can't catch a pass, or bother to learn new offensive moves.

you mean like the post moves he tried, albeit sloppy last year, or the almost 3 pointer in an otherwise laughable end to the Philly series.

[The Machine]

I wouldn't pay for someone who can't catch a pass, or bother to learn new offensive moves.

you mean like the post moves he tried, albeit sloppy last year, or the almost 3 pointer in an otherwise laughable end to the Philly series.

[coldfish]

I dunno. I think its all about the tax. If the Bulls are willing to pay a lot of it over the next few years, match Asik. Keep him because he definitely helps the team. I really don't see a downside to anyone other than the Bulls accountants.

If the Bulls aren't really willing to pay the tax, a lot of it that is, then you have to let him walk. If you don't, you are probably going to be forced to gut the team and let go of much better players than Asik in year 3.

Note: Please don't talk about trading Asik in year 3 to avoid the tax. In order to do so, you would need to find a team under the cap willing to pay Asik $14M for 1 year. That isn't going to happen.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

so Offensive Rebounding where his rate is in the top 10 throughout the league, and huge screens aren't part of the offense anymore.

Its all about buckets son...

bulls offensive rating with Omer on the floor: 98.8
Teams since 2004-05 with offense that bad: 1 (Charlotte last year)

Come on. There isn't a single player in the Bulls rotation lower than 101.7 (CJ).

Asik's top 5 man units by minutes:

Lucas, Korver, Deng, Gibson, Asik
Watson Brewer Deng Gibson Asik
Lucas Butler Korver Gibson Asik

What are you expecting?

[DuckIII]

so Offensive Rebounding where his rate is in the top 10 throughout the league, and huge screens aren't part of the offense anymore.

Its all about buckets son...

bulls offensive rating with Omer on the floor: 98.8
Teams since 2004-05 with offense that bad: 1 (Charlotte last year)

Come on. There isn't a single player in the Bulls rotation lower than 101.7 (CJ).

Asik is a poor offensive player. But this isn't really a reasonable way of characterizing him, is it? Is there a way to determine who he typically is on the floor with? And is there also a way to determine the extent to which his offensive failings in offensive rating are offset by the defensive rating of the units when he is on the floor?

I know some about advanced stats, though clearly not as much as others. But Morey is notorious for making personnel decisions based on advanced metrics. And he's the one that set Asik's market value and aggressively targeted him as Houston's #1 offseason priority.

[Mech Engineer]

More than Asik's ability to play basketball...the anti-Asik people have turned into Reinsdorf's accountants. The problem is even the cheap JR finally wants to spend his money and the accountants are making a case for him to keep his profits rather than spend on the team.

Whether he is a backup or like Kwame Brown...the suggestion is kind of hinting to get rid of Asik and replace him with some new toy/s who will chuck shots and do cross overs like Jamal Crawford and get a backup like Pryzbilla.

[PistolP]

That's an assumption that implies great health from all our main bigs. If I knew Omer was only going to play 15 minutes every game, that's one thing. But if Noah or Gibson is out for any extended amount of time, having a fourth big that you actually trust to play is hugely important. I don't trust the front office to find a Kurt Thomas every year to pick up the slack, because there just aren't that many Kurt Thomases out there to be had.

Cheap out on your big rotation, and it may really come back to bite you. At some point, you have to pay for value, and keeping Asik onto his next contract means the Bulls can still be the Bulls defensively, even if one of their bigs goes down for an extended period. To me, that's less a luxury than a necessity with the way the Bulls play defense and how much effort they expect from their big men defensively.

Very true that our bigs are injury prone. But so is our whole roster. Boozer, Deng, Rip, Rose...our whole starting lineup could be classified as injury prone. What if Rip gets injured again next year (very likely), who plays SG for 48 mpg? No team is going to have excellent backups at every position, you just have to hope for health in the playoffs when you play your best 7-8 guys big minutes.

At the end of the day, if the Bulls are committed to Asik, keeping Taj, Deng & Noah, paying Boozer's un-amnesty-claimed salary, paying Rose, paying Mirotic, and paying for a real long-term solution at SG, I'd be very pleased with that. I just fundamentally believe that's an unsustainable proposition. I'm not calling Bulls ownership cheap, but they are also not in the NY, BKN, LAL class of throwing cash around either, and I don't believe they ever will be. They are smart spenders. Matching Asik is comparable IMO to trading for Joe Johnson type contract. Does it make the team better near term? Of course. Long-term is it a smart use of capital? Not really. Would I understand if ownership & management feel there is a better use of funds long-term? Absolutely.

[DuckIII]

Note: Please don't talk about trading Asik in year 3 to avoid the tax. In order to do so, you would need to find a team under the cap willing to pay Asik $14M for 1 year. That isn't going to happen.

Is that a "poison pill" thing? We can't trade him to a team with a $14 million dollar guy (or guys adding up to that amount) on a longer deal that is looking to shed salary?

[BULLHITTER]

I dunno. I think its all about the tax. If the Bulls are willing to pay a lot of it over the next few years, match Asik. Keep him because he definitely helps the team. I really don't see a downside to anyone other than the Bulls accountants.

absolutely.....see, it seems as though the pro-asik folks are railing against the anti-asik folks because they believe WE believe he sucks. he actually doesn't suck by "suck" as a definition, but when folks start with this DPOY, HOF potential defensively, rim deterrent, gonna keep lebron out of the paint BS it wildly overstates his role as a freakin' backup.

at the end of the day sure, a quality backup is a quality backup, i get that; but 25 mil for a guy who's impact is only on one end, and who, for the foreseeable future is going to be second string?

if the bulls come up with that coin and still cry LT, they're full of it.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Note: Please don't talk about trading Asik in year 3 to avoid the tax. In order to do so, you would need to find a team under the cap willing to pay Asik $14M for 1 year. That isn't going to happen.

Is that a "poison pill" thing? We can't trade him to a team with a $14 million dollar guy (or guys adding up to that amount) on a longer deal that is looking to shed salary?

Or find a team (such as Cleveland this year - a bad team wayyy under the cap) that would be wiling to take him along with a first round pick? Of course we could.

[1rage]

at the end of the day sure, a quality backup is a quality backup, i get that; but 25 mil for a guy who's impact is only on one end, and who, for the foreseeable future is going to be second string?

if the bulls come up with that coin and still cry LT, they're full of it.

gotta love reading this thought over and over again. . again. How does offensive rebounding and screens not help on offense.

[boogydown]

I can't believe the Bulls haven't let Brewer go yet. What is the exact deadline? 3:00pm?