OT: Terrorist attacks in Paris

[LordBaldric]

Saudi Arabia is the principle source of this particular brand of retrograde Islam, and they've been exporting it since the late 70's when the CIA got the idea to use religious fanatics to cause problems for the Soviets in Afghanistan. Yet they are a great "ally" and are supplied with massive amounts of American armaments.

Now Turkey, another American "ally" is getting in on the act, as they and the Saudis have been funneling arms to the jihadi groups in Syria. Of course, the USA has been trying to overthrow the Syrian government for years and has been tacitly supporting these moves, if not authoring them in the first place. Nor does it help that there are tons of potential recruits from the various Muslim societies the USA has destroyed over the years.

[RebuildaBulls]

Saudi Arabia is the principle source of this particular brand of retrograde Islam, and they've been exporting it since the late 70's when the CIA got the idea to use religious fanatics to cause problems for the Soviets in Afghanistan. Yet they are a great "ally" and are supplied with massive amounts of American armaments.

Now Turkey, another American "ally" is getting in on the act, as they and the Saudis have been funneling arms to the jihadi groups in Syria. Of course, the USA has been trying to overthrow the Syrian government for years and has been tacitly supporting these moves, if not authoring them in the first place. Nor does it help that there are tons of potential recruits from the various Muslim societies the USA has destroyed over the years.

This goes back way before the US was in the middle east. Break up of the Ottoman Empire, the last Caliphate, started the chain reaction that continues to today. Turkey, the successor to the Ottomans are trying to recreate it using NATO as its shield(From Russia/Syria/Iran) and ISIS as its arm to sway the political side.

Its even easy to link it back to their Prophet Mohammad but Ill spare the details and just say this current crisis was born 100 years ago by the break up of the Ottoman Empire

[TimRobbins]

Poor Belgium, most friendliest countries to foreigners in Europe now a haven for terrorists

When was the last time you've been to Brussels? It's no longer a European city. It's a Muslim city.
I can't say I feel sorry for the Belgium people. People who are unwilling to fight and defend their country don not deserve to have one.

[kyrv]

Planning on traveling to Amsterdam then Paris in May, and things like this make me think it may not even be worth it. The chances are very low that one experiences a terrorist attack, but given the fact that security will be so high and people will be in full alert mode, it may not be a very enjoyable experience sadly.

If you go, be safe! Paris amazing.

[RebuildaBulls]

Poor Belgium, most friendliest countries to foreigners in Europe now a haven for terrorists

When was the last time you've been to Brussels? It's no longer a European city. It's a Muslim city.
I can't say I feel sorry for the Belgium people. People who are unwilling to fight and defend their country don not deserve to have one.

For me I went there way back in 2003, went there many times before that. It also left a good impression on me but what I hear these days are not so good.

[LordBaldric]

Saudi Arabia is the principle source of this particular brand of retrograde Islam, and they've been exporting it since the late 70's when the CIA got the idea to use religious fanatics to cause problems for the Soviets in Afghanistan. Yet they are a great "ally" and are supplied with massive amounts of American armaments.

Now Turkey, another American "ally" is getting in on the act, as they and the Saudis have been funneling arms to the jihadi groups in Syria. Of course, the USA has been trying to overthrow the Syrian government for years and has been tacitly supporting these moves, if not authoring them in the first place. Nor does it help that there are tons of potential recruits from the various Muslim societies the USA has destroyed over the years.

this goes way before the US was in the middle east. Break up of the Ottoman Empire, the last Caliphate, started the chain reaction that continues to today. Turkey, the successor to the Ottomans is trying to recreate it using NATO as its shield and ISIS as its arm.

Its even easy to link it back to their Prophet Mohammad but Ill spare the details and just say this current crisis was born 100 years ago

The current President (Sultan in his own mind) of Turkey is clearly insane. It would be prudent, at the very least, to toss them out of NATO before he can draw us into any more trouble!

[RebuildaBulls]

Saudi Arabia is the principle source of this particular brand of retrograde Islam, and they've been exporting it since the late 70's when the CIA got the idea to use religious fanatics to cause problems for the Soviets in Afghanistan. Yet they are a great "ally" and are supplied with massive amounts of American armaments.

Now Turkey, another American "ally" is getting in on the act, as they and the Saudis have been funneling arms to the jihadi groups in Syria. Of course, the USA has been trying to overthrow the Syrian government for years and has been tacitly supporting these moves, if not authoring them in the first place. Nor does it help that there are tons of potential recruits from the various Muslim societies the USA has destroyed over the years.

this goes way before the US was in the middle east. Break up of the Ottoman Empire, the last Caliphate, started the chain reaction that continues to today. Turkey, the successor to the Ottomans is trying to recreate it using NATO as its shield and ISIS as its arm.

Its even easy to link it back to their Prophet Mohammad but Ill spare the details and just say this current crisis was born 100 years ago

The current President (Sultan in his own mind) of Turkey is clearly insane. It would be prudent, at the very least, to toss them out of NATO before he can draw us into any more trouble!

agree, Im praying that NATO kicks them out and Russia gives them a beating

[TimRobbins]

Poor Belgium, most friendliest countries to foreigners in Europe now a haven for terrorists

When was the last time you've been to Brussels? It's no longer a European city. It's a Muslim city.
I can't say I feel sorry for the Belgium people. People who are unwilling to fight and defend their country don not deserve to have one.

way back in 2003, went there many times. It left a good impression on me but what I hear these days are not so good

Was there a total of 5 times over the past 20 years. The decline of the city is alarming. The place has turned from one of the capitals of Europe into a third world Middle-Eastern city. I have no idea why the Belgium people have allowed this, but I guess that's what they want.

[TimRobbins]

So does Trump's ban on Muslim immigration sound a little more reasonable today, or should we simply go the way of Brussels and turn our cities in the Middle-East 2.0?

[RebuildaBulls]

So does Trump's ban on Muslim immigration sound a little more reasonable today, or should we simply go the way of Brussels and turn our cities in the Middle-East 2.0?

though I think Islam is evil, I dont hate muslims. Im not for a total ban but a strict limit on the number and qualifications of the immigrants, US does it with other countries so its not wrong

[TheSmooth]

Problem with Islam is its not supposed to be re-interpreted, the Quran is believed to be their God's exact words. So they cannot reform it and claim its legitimate to its hardcore believers unfortunately.
Its fortunate that many dont know, misinterpret or turn a blind to their prophets last marching orders, but terrorists follow it and will always follow it as long as its there.

islamic terror isnt new, there have been thousands of attacks on the West since the ideology started 1400 years ago. its sad that this thing will go on for another thousand years

I’m a Muslim. Born in India, raised in the burbs of Chicago since I was 3. I’ve read the Quran, Torah, and Bible. I’ve studied exegeses from scholars of all three religions, and studied the history of Bhuddism and Hinduism. I’m not a scholar myself, but comparative religion is a hobby of mine.

I’ve read some uniformed – even ignorant – statements on this thread about Islam. It’s understandable that in Western Society, people will not understand the precepts of Eastern Religions. It does surprise me when people talk about shariah law as if they understand everything in it. I’m assuming they don’t know that shariah law guarantees the rights of religious minorities w/in Muslim run lands…it even guarantees that they can have their own court systems within their communities. Want examples? Read history books such Michael Hart’s The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History, or read books on the history of Moorish Granada; heck…just read books on the peaceful coexistence of Jews and Muslims in Jerusalem from the time that Muslims took over the Levant area until the Crusades when the Crusading armies raped and pillaged Jews and Muslims.

I’m also assuming that these people don’t know that sharia law mandates that women’s inheritance cannot be taken from her by her husband, or that what a woman earns from her job is for her to use as she sees fit (whether that’s to use on the family, herself, her parents, the poor, etc.) while a man bears the responsibility of using his earnings for providing the family. It has rulings that are similar to those in Old Testament/Torah regarding punishment of criminals, which is what is more well-known by the masses. However, what baffles me is when I see a comment like the one above, “Its unfortunate that many dont know, misinterpret or turn a blind to their prophets last marching order to subdue nonbelievers,”. I would love to see the quote and source of this “marching order” in English, let alone in Arabic. And to say there have been “thousands of attacks on the West”…the world isn’t a vacuum; there are evil people on both sides who bend/rationalize their beliefs to further their own agendas. Are the atrocities committed by Christian armies “in the name of Jesus” against Native Americans based on teachings in the Bible? Or is a secular decision to leave mines in the fields of Laos and Cambodia during the Viet Nam War, and then not help remove those mines afterwards, causing children to this day to die as they play in the fields any less evil?

My point in this reply is not to start an argument or even a peaceful debate about Islam/Sharia/Western Society. No matter how people respond, I’m not going to reply on this thread after this post. I’m used to people in the media, at work, and around making false statements about Islam. I agree that fighting ISIS should be a priority of Muslim countries along with Muslims in the West denouncing terrorists who hijack and insult Islam by killing innocent people. I hate ISIS and the people w/in it…they deserve whatever is coming to them. I just hope people who visit this site understand the difference between Islam and people who pervert it.

[musiqsoulchild]

So does Trump's ban on Muslim immigration sound a little more reasonable today, or should we simply go the way of Brussels and turn our cities in the Middle-East 2.0?

Not at all....it sounds to me that the increase in fecal volume from Trump's mouth is directly proportional to vile happenings in the Middle East.

Bibi does the same thing....anytime he is up for re-election, he stokes up fears about West Bank blah blah blah. Even in Israel, the right wing, security hawks are slowly becoming <50%.

He all but lost his re-election. The same guy comes to the US invited by the Congress (HAHAHAHA) with his re-election hanging by a slender thread and uses the bully pulpit of the US Congress to squeak a victory.

That is EXACTLY what Trump is doing. Infact, even Bibi had to deny a visit to Trump because of the anti-Muslim rhetoric from Trump. Thats how terrible Donald J Trump is.

I'd much rather tolerate an idealogue than someone who says things they dont believe in to get elected.

[cammac]

And while we're at it, can we stop talking about killing families of terrorists using bullets dipped in pig's blood?

Every time something like this happens a bubbling hatred of Islam rears its ugly head. Its unfortunate that the religion is so fractured but it is hard to be sanctimonious the same religious hatred and divide existed in Ireland till very recently. Plus the main financiers of that violence were US citizens. The US government turned a blind eye to terrorists bombing in London.

ISIS is dying territories they have held are being taken back and finances are being cut off and fighters are deserting at a much higher rate than they can recruit. Will that solve all the problems in the middle east absolutely not. There will still be a civil war in Syria but if NATO establishes a no fly zone then the war will come to a conclusion. Other problems will pop up like the desire of the Kurdish people to establish a country within its territories in both Iraq & Syria. This would be a positive factor since they could be a good positive influence for democracy.

The bombings in France & Belgium are regrettable and represent savagery of the proponents of violence because of radicalized religion. But it does go deeper than that for years France especially has marginalized its Muslim citizens. France has always had a large Muslim population because of its colonial empire in North Africa and for the most part they weren't even 2nd class citizens but 3rd class living in urban slums in the suburbs of cities like Paris. This has always been a bubbling stew waiting for someone to stir the pot especially in times of economic stagnation. This has been mitigated by the uncontrolled flow of refugees especially unencumbered single men. Even Democracies like Sweden, Denmark & Norway are having problems.

That isn't to say that the USA should close its doors to the refugee problem. Canada has taken in 35,000 refugees from the Middle East but had the ability to vet prospective refugees bring in mostly families. Has a terrorist slipped through maybe but the USA has also developed its own home grown non Muslim terrorist groups.

There is no definitive right answer but doing nothing isn't a option.

[Red8911]

So does Trump's ban on Muslim immigration sound a little more reasonable today, or should we simply go the way of Brussels and turn our cities in the Middle-East 2.0?

Exactly people go crazy and protest that trump has "islamophobia" but truth is he is absolutely right.They are the enemy right now,they want to hurt the U.S badly,obviously not all Muslims there are more good people than bad, but why take a chance? Does everyone want safety or be afraid of hurting people's feelings and letting anyone in the country that could be a maniac?

[WIN]

So does Trump's ban on Muslim immigration sound a little more reasonable today, or should we simply go the way of Brussels and turn our cities in the Middle-East 2.0?

Exactly people go crazy and protest that trump has "islamophobia" but truth is he is absolutely right.They are the enemy right now,they want to hurt the U.S badly,obviously not all Muslims there are more good people than bad, but why take a chance? Does everyone want safety or be afraid of hurting people's feelings and letting anyone in the country that could be a maniac?

You would've made a nice Nazi recruit.

I'm a Christian and an American Citizen, and as an American Citizen who understands the value of the Constitution, doing what Trump proposed is as big of an attack on America as it is on Muslims.

[AKfanatic]

So does Trump's ban on Muslim immigration sound a little more reasonable today, or should we simply go the way of Brussels and turn our cities in the Middle-East 2.0?

Exactly people go crazy and protest that trump has "islamophobia" but truth is he is absolutely right.They are the enemy right now,they want to hurt the U.S badly,obviously not all Muslims there are more good people than bad, but why take a chance? Does everyone want safety or be afraid of hurting people's feelings and letting anyone in the country that could be a maniac?

He's just continuing the right wing, "if the Dems win the terrorists win" speil, the "the hate us for our freedom" (which we want to take small chunks away, "the only thing you have to fear, is everything", "be afraid, be very afraid", speak that has been the gameplan for republicans seeking office for over a decade.

If people are so scared of terrorists that they need to ban entry to an entire religion, perhaps we should start rounding up white, right-wing, anti-government militias located throughout the US. When you as a nation continue to dehumanize and paint groups of people as dangerous based on skin color, religion, or country of origin, a small chunk of those people become dangerous.

Do we truly believe barring entry would stop terror? Or is terror only defined by those that practice Islam? Will a wall stop entry? It's not like we don't have thousands of miles of coast, thousands of miles of border both north and south, and it's not like shovels haven't been invented to dig under a wall.

It's odd that Obama wanted a more intelligence/police type effort to stop terrorism and was painted as weak and stupid, and yet the only other option others give is to just bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran or put boots on the ground.....because if history has taught us anything, war, destruction, and actively keeping groups of people down is such an awesome way to make those people peaceful.

[jmajew]

Banning all Muslims is an awful idea. What people need to realize is that America is a melting pot for all religions and ethnicities. In a lot of Europe Muslims are put into ghettos and treated like second class citizens. That is why they are more likely to be radicalized. In the US we are more accepting of other religions and ethnicities, that is what makes us America. We can't lose what makes us great.

We need to create policies and laws that protect American citizens, but we have to do that without changing the fabric of who we are.

[TimRobbins]

Not at all....it sounds to me that the increase in fecal volume from Trump's mouth is directly proportional to vile happenings in the Middle East.

Bibi does the same thing....anytime he is up for re-election, he stokes up fears about West Bank blah blah blah. Even in Israel, the right wing, security hawks are slowly becoming <50%.

He all but lost his re-election. The same guy comes to the US invited by the Congress (HAHAHAHA) with his re-election hanging by a slender thread and uses the bully pulpit of the US Congress to squeak a victory.

That is EXACTLY what Trump is doing. Infact, even Bibi had to deny a visit to Trump because of the anti-Muslim rhetoric from Trump. Thats how terrible Donald J Trump is.

I'd much rather tolerate an idealogue than someone who says things they dont believe in to get elected.

I have no clue what you're talking about. Who cares about Bibi? Why is he even an issue?

We're talking about a very valid debate about Muslim immigration. We were lucky enough to to admit a huge number of Muslim immigrants over the past 50 years like Europe did and that's why we're not seeing these attacks here. If you want to put it in PC terms then you can think of it as not allowing any immigrants who do not fully assimilate and accept American value. Does that make you feel better?

[TimRobbins]

Exactly people go crazy and protest that trump has "islamophobia" but truth is he is absolutely right.They are the enemy right now,they want to hurt the U.S badly,obviously not all Muslims there are more good people than bad, but why take a chance? Does everyone want safety or be afraid of hurting people's feelings and letting anyone in the country that could be a maniac?

A "phobia" is an Irrational fear of something. Clearly fearing Islam is not Irrational, so the term "Islamophobia" is a paradox.

[DarthDiggler69]

Poor Belgium, most friendliest countries to foreigners in Europe now a haven for terrorists

When was the last time you've been to Brussels? It's no longer a European city. It's a Muslim city.
I can't say I feel sorry for the Belgium people. People who are unwilling to fight and defend their country don not deserve to have one.

Was there in 2001. Great beer and food, people were very friendly compared to France and England