Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[veji1]

Wasnt the point of us not trading Butler last offseason, was because ownership didnt want a full rebuild, only a partial? Whats changed?

The retooling of Rondo and Wade don't appear to be working at all....there's always hope going into a new season, but after seeing what they have, they know they'll have to do the same thing next year with no guarantee of landing anyone.

just as a rebuild doesn't guarantee squat either... you could land very good players like Wall or Irving and still suck...

[Jvaughn]

Did I miss something? People are saying we should trade Jimmy because he's not HOF player Scottie Pippen? I'll assume there's a big part of that argument I missed, and I'm just too lazy to find it.

[jumpmanjay]

Did I miss something? People are saying we should trade Jimmy because he's not HOF player Scottie Pippen? I'll assume there's a big part of that argument I missed, and I'm just too lazy to find it.

You didn't miss anything. Unfortunately.

[BloodyQ]

- It is his 3rd season as a leader of this team, the first one as the undisputed alpha dog.

What?? I didn't know he was the leader of the team in 14-15, I thought those bums Noah and Gasol were leaders on the floor, and Thibs was the ultimate leader. No one knew Butler would improve his game in the off-season like that.

2015-2016, there was no leader on that team. It was dysfunctional.

2016-2017, this is the first season where Butler is the undisputed leader of the team.

[Ice Man]

Did I miss something? People are saying we should trade Jimmy because he's not HOF player Scottie Pippen?

Yeah, kinda. Making the argument double bad is that he pretty much is prime Scottie Pippen this year. Not the identical player, of course, but of roughly similar value. Whatever claims apply to Jimmy apply to prime Scottie, too.

[veji1]

- It is his 3rd season as a leader of this team, the first one as the undisputed alpha dog.

What?? I didn't know he was the leader of the team in 14-15, I thought those bums Noah and Gasol were leaders on the floor, and Thibs was the ultimate leader. No one knew Butler would improve his game in the off-season like that.

2015-2016, there was no leader on that team. It was dysfunctional.

2016-2017, this is the first season where Butler is the undisputed leader of the team.

OK I wasn't clear, what I meant is it's his 3rd season as one of the leaders of the team, ie in 2014-15 he was already scoring 20ppg being the starting SG and playing close to 39mpg, ie he was one of the leaders of the team. But as I say this is his first season as THE leader of the team, the undisputed alpha whereas for his first 2 season as one of the key players and leaders he had to compose with Noah, Gasol, Rose, etc..

[TimRobbins]

If you're ever going to trade Butler, now is the time.

[Overhere]

Has there been any other case of a top-10 player, being traded that didn't actually say they want out/force a trade?

[sco]

I am chalking this whole rumor mill as either click-baiting or the Bulls FO gaging the PR impact of blowing things up.

IMO, we could get a haul for JB that could serve as a new foundation, but to me, I only consider that deal if I have good deals also lined-up for Wade and Taj.

[coldfish]

I have no issue with shopping Jimmy. He is at peak value and I'm not sure the team is going anywhere with him.

My concern is trading him for a crap package. Even guys like Wiggins are a joke. The only teams that could possibly make a deal with Chicago are probably Philly and Boston. Since neither is likely dealing, Jimmy is probably staying.

The logical thing to do here is to shop Jimmy with the rest of the team. If you can get a fair deal for Jimmy, then do it. If not, you basically dump everyone else, miss the playoffs and then come into next year with a few picks and massive capspace to build around Jimmy.

[3Diamantidis]

Has there been any other case of a top-10 player, being traded that didn't actually say they want out/force a trade?

Ray Allen from bucks to sonics

[Ice Man]

Ray Allen from bucks to sonics

Second Ten, but yeah ... seems like a relevant example. That is, if there was no pushing and shoving behind the scenes.

[veji1]

If you're ever going to trade Butler, now is the time.

Now is not a better time than in the summer of 2018.. we have less info on what we could achieve, what we can hope for, where we are heading in one word. If the Bulls end up having to trade Butler, the pressure will grow and reach it's peak in 2018, be it the deadline or the offseason, but until then no particular hurry.

[BloodyQ]

If you're ever going to trade Butler, now is the time.

Or they could try and put a good team around him...you know...the logical thing to do when you have a top 10 player on your team.

[MC3]

If you're ever going to trade Butler, now is the time.

Or they could try and put a good team around him...you know...the logical thing to do when you have a top 10 player on your team.

We can't put good team around him until Butler is UFA. Realistically. Logical thing.

[RSP83]

I was in the Trade Jimmy bandwagon in the offseason, simply because I saw no upside on keeping him with the then makeup of the team after the Rose trade. Even now, I can still understand the logic on why trade Jimmy. But, honestly, I really love watching him play for our team, and crazy as it sounds, he's still one of the most underrated star in this league. I know how is that possible when all he does is improve leaps and bounds every season. But that's how I felt, he's a very good NBA player, he belongs with the best of them in today's NBA.

I’m probably among the minority here, but I think we should look into keeping him and improve the rest of the roster. It's just weird to me that Jimmy is the only good thing happening on our team, and we want to remove him. When it's clear that the problem is roster construction. It's not like Jimmy is a cancer or anything. If Bulls end up moving him, it's crazy how we fans went from having everything (COY Thibs, DPOY Noah, MVP Rose, MIP Butler, short term and long term relevancy) to nothing at all. To me that sounds like management should be the next one out the door. You can speculate all you want that this is for the betterment of Bulls future prospect, but you gotta be kidding yourself if that's going to happen if the same management is still running the show. I can understand the Rose trade, but trading Jimmy as logical as it may seem, I fear is going to set this franchise pretty far back.

If Jimmy gets traded I really don't trust GarPax. This is very contrast to what I said about them early in the season when we were winning, I said they're brilliant for pulling all this moves. Why not stick to what they've done, and only tweak the problematic part? Rondo bad fit, lack of shooting, lack of athleticism. To me, radical move like trading Butler only shows that I'm wrong about them, and they don't know what they're doing.

[AirP.]

I have no issue with shopping Jimmy. He is at peak value and I'm not sure the team is going anywhere with him.

My concern is trading him for a crap package. Even guys like Wiggins are a joke. The only teams that could possibly make a deal with Chicago are probably Philly and Boston. Since neither is likely dealing, Jimmy is probably staying.

The logical thing to do here is to shop Jimmy with the rest of the team. If you can get a fair deal for Jimmy, then do it. If not, you basically dump everyone else, miss the playoffs and then come into next year with a few picks and massive capspace to build around Jimmy.

Why would anyone trade a guy MANY years younger that's not that far away from where Butler is now or was last year? If you look at the K.Love trade they got the #1 pick(although nobody said he was a great #1 pick), a bust of a #1 pick and Thad Young. This is probably why we kept hearing the FO wanted a great draft pick, great young player and a starter(Crowder/Bradley). With how things recently have went for Crowder(lashing out at fans for cheering Hayward) the Celtics may be more inclinded to include him in a package to Chicago. In reality something along Crowder, J.Brown and Brooklyn's pick next year is a pretty good haul especially if you can bring in a 3rd team and cash in on Crowder also. You'll also end up having a worse team which will move Chicago up in the lottery which in itself, a pretty damn good value(basically worth a mid 1st round pick... it took 2 to get into the lottery for McDermott).

Get your young guys, be high enough in the lottery to pick up one of those 3 or 4 top PGs in the draft and have most of your rebuilding done and try you can get a "star" to sign with them with a young talented cast around them. It would be very interesting to see how having a guy like D.Wade on the roster would help very talented rookies develop the right mindset/work habits while also getting a good amount of court time.

[chrispatrick]

only other posibilities are lal17 or a 3 teamer where we would trade noel and you get the return for him, instead of the future pick...no simmons

both addons feels like massive overpays. i know you guys want to squeeze every drop out of the fruit , but philly is not close to win-now mode. would we, i think it would be possible

Addons are generally meaningless. I understand you wouldn't want to trade Simmons, but if I had to assign value to your guys on a 10 point scale, I would do it as follows. The reason guys like Okafor/Noel aren't worth anything is because they're not going to give you much impact now, and by the time they are productive (if that time comes), you have to pay them their full FMV on their 2nd contracts. They also have zero chance of outperforming a max deal the way Butler currently is and people hope Simmons/2017 first rounder will.

Now, you're right, Philly has no reason to want to trade Simmons for Butler because they're not in win now mode. Butler would immediately make them too good to obtain top 5 picks going forward but not good enough to break into that next tier unless Embiid really maximizes his potential going forward. This is why a team likely to deal for Butler is more in win now mode, which pretty much leaves the Celtics as the only team with the assets to maybe get it done.

Butler - 9 (and he's good enough on his own that your 2018 first round pick wouldn't be all that attractive).
Simmons - 8
2017 First Rounder - 7
Okafor - 1
Noel - 1
Luwawu - .5

[veji1]

I was in the Trade Jimmy bandwagon in the offseason, simply because I saw no upside on keeping him with the then makeup of the team after the Rose trade. Even now, I can still understand the logic on why trade Jimmy. But, honestly, I really love watching him play for our team, and crazy as it sounds, he's still one of the most underrated star in this league. I know how is that possible when all he does is improve leaps and bounds every season. But that's how I felt, he's a very good NBA player, he belongs with the best of them in today's NBA.

I’m probably among the minority here, but I think we should look into keeping him and improve the rest of the roster. It's just weird to me that Jimmy is the only good thing happening on our team, and we want to remove him. When it's clear that the problem is roster construction. It's not like Jimmy is a cancer or anything. If Bulls end up moving him, it's crazy how we fans went from having everything (COY Thibs, DPOY Noah, MVP Rose, MIP Butler, short term and long term relevancy) to nothing at all. To me that sounds like management should be the next one out the door. You can speculate all you want that this is for the betterment of Bulls future prospect, but you gotta be kidding yourself if that's going to happen if the same management is still running the show. I can understand the Rose trade, but trading Jimmy as logical as it may seem, I fear is going to set this franchise pretty far back.

If Jimmy gets traded I really don't trust GarPax. This is very contrast to what I said about them early in the season when we were winning, I said they're brilliant for pulling all this moves. Why not stick to what they've done, and only tweak the problematic part? Rondo bad fit, lack of shooting, lack of athleticism. To me, radical move like trading Butler only shows that I'm wrong about them, and they don't know what they're doing.

You are not in the minority, you are just sane an reasonable, which is the type of attitude that gets drowned on an internet forum !

[Ice Man]

Don't know about this board, but you can tell from the fans' reactions at team introductions that the typical Bulls fans sure as hell doesn't want Butler traded. He's good, he's fun to watch, and he often wins games for the team. Realgm types might want such a player gone, for videogame/strategic/faux GM reason, but normal fans certainly do not.