GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2

[Mk0]

You think Pat is going to give his number to Vuce?

I can see Vuc wearing #5, his college number.

He was #4 in college. But #4 is retired here. Which is why he chose #9.

I wonder if he goes all in on the Kawhi standom and picks #2

Curious why guys go from 4 to 9. Haper did the same. I assume because the numbers are aesthetically similar?

[DASMACKDOWN]

Read on Twitter

I had a feeling he would do that.

[The Real Dalic]

Read on Twitter

I had a feeling he would do that.

As a Magic fan, gotta say, it's very bizarre seeing Vuc in Bulls red after seeing him in the white, black, and blue of the Magic.

Also, the Bulls are officially my second team now that Vuc is in Chicago, so you guys might see me from time to time on here. Will definitely try to catch every single game if I'm able to! I hope you guys make the playoffs!

[Wingy]

The benching is coming. No more entitlement minutes, and time to learn what it’s like to see your pro team serious about winning. I think it’s healthy for him to be in that environment, and in time before all the free cheese messed him up.

I expect to see a lot of improvement with an offseason of work. Looking forward to see how he responds to this challenge.

[PrimzyBulls81]

PWill should be benched a while ago.. Now Temple is back and Brown is here, there is no doubt anymore. I would go with :
Sato, Lavine, Brown, Theis, Vucevic
White, Temple, Williams, Young, Lauri
x - Arci, Green, Valentine, Aminu, Felicio

[WindyCityBorn]

Williams hit that rookie wall HARD. I would say he is easily the worst player get heavy minutes right now.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Williams hit that rookie wall HARD. I would say he is easily the worst player get heavy minutes right now.

But he hasnt hit the rookie wall though.

His output is exactly the same. All the is changed is increasing pressure, impatience and expectation for him to be more aggressive. That is not a rookie wall.

He had a 23/6/4 game 8 games ago and the first thing people repeat is we want him to be more aggressive.

If he has a good game tonight for instance, its back to us repeating for like the nth time that we want him to be more aggressive.

Funny enough I actually think he was more aggresive last game but was turnover prone. He actually had the most shots in his first stint.

[Ice Man]

Williams hit that rookie wall HARD. I would say he is easily the worst player get heavy minutes right now.

But he hasnt hit the rookie wall though.

His output is exactly the same. All the is changed is increasing pressure, impatience and expectation for him to be more aggressive. That is not a rookie wall.

On a related note, Lauri, Wendell, and Coby didn't get worse. They are the same players today than when they entered the league. But now they are regarded as failures, because expectations changed. The same has happened to Pat, but only in a small way, because it's early yet in the process.

[rtblues]

I was watching some videos of PW in college again, and the biggest takeaway is aggressiveness.
He was very decisive and wasn't hesitating to shoot or take it to the rim. He was also grabbing
boards and bringing the ball up and play-making. That's the PW I want to see.

Not sure if it's the "rookie wall", deferring to vets, or what, but this would be a good time to breakout.

[bad knees]

A demotion to the bench might light a fire under him.

I think it's funny that the entire board has decided that PWill ought to be benched, but the reality is that we have no sign that this is in the offing. Will be interesting to see if BD keeps running him out there with the starters.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Williams hit that rookie wall HARD. I would say he is easily the worst player get heavy minutes right now.

But he hasnt hit the rookie wall though.

His output is exactly the same. All the is changed is increasing pressure, impatience and expectation for him to be more aggressive. That is not a rookie wall.

On a related note, Lauri, Wendell, and Coby didn't get worse. They are the same players today than when they entered the league. But now they are regarded as failures, because expectations changed. The same has happened to Pat, but only in a small way, because it's early yet in the process.

Its time multiplied by production divided by expectations = results. I made that up but something like that in my head. Im going to make a player expectation index one day

Rookies have a soft expectation because everyone accepts its as a process. If Pat finishes the year with 10/5 and ok defense, its a solid rookie year and no one will really make a stink about it.

But if next season he is still at 10/5 then legit concern will fill peoples minds and it will be considered a big disappointment. Then the real vitriol will begin. Which then turns into a make or break year in year 3. Like with Wendell.

In Wendell's case, he never got into the cross hairs until this season. Of all the 3 (#7) picks, he was probably deemed the most safe. But as it turned out Billy wanted to make Wendell into the focal point of the offense. Have him shooting 3s and doing other things out there.

Now if you ask me, I think Wendell as the offensive hub failed FAR worse then Coby's failed pg experiment. I don't think Billy thought Wendell would crumble as much as he did, But since Wendell is a perfectionist, and cant get over mistakes or missed opportunities, Billy and AK saw it as a complete lost cause.

When it comes to Pat though, I certainly believe in his talent. I've said it before I certainly don't question his ability to do any and everything. But it is frustrating to have to force a player to do so. I think Billy feels the same way we do to be honest.

I wish Pat got a chance to actually bumslay. Like in the summer leagues or at the end of the season where he would be tanking with a bunch of bums. That certainly isnt in the plans this year as its all business now.

I do think the new acquisitions will trigger him to be more mindful of it as Billy has plenty of different options to choose from. He will know if he starts seeing his mins go from 28 to 18.

[DuckIII]

A demotion to the bench might light a fire under him.

I think it's funny that the entire board has decided that PWill ought to be benched, but the reality is that we have no sign that this is in the offing. Will be interesting to see if BD keeps running him out there with the starters.

I haven’t decided that. Not because he’s playing well. But because we have lots of moving parts and I’m not convinced the right thing to do, EVEN WITH the immediate goal being to make the playoffs, is to just bench him.

Here’s what I wrote in the game thread:

I’m not sure what to do with him at this specific juncture. My betting money was on AK either doing nothing or trading away some of the vets and Patrick Lee Williams’ role either staying the same or increasing down the stretch.

But now reaching the postseason this year is the new priority and important to completing what I assume to be the plan. Whole new math on the Williams front.

If he was playing quality defense I would say it’s a no brainer to start him. But he’s not.

On the other hand, options are limited. Temple has regressed, Lauri has been terrible and Brown (my sneaky favorite draft day move) has had an awful season so far and we don’t know about him yet.

So to me the answer is to start Temple, and then determine whether all things considered it makes more sense to run Williams or Lauri with the bench unit.

Despite his defensive regression, I still expect that Williams will be a better defender at the 4 than Lauri. So I would start there. But that might not be the way to go. In fact, it may help with Williams’ aggressiveness for him to come in off the bench. Might make him feel a little more urgency, which the Bulls need from him.

And that doesn’t even account for what we will do with Theis. For all I know he and Temple will be the starters.

[chefo]

Post ASB, PaW has been Coby White-level bad, on both ends of the floor. He's the last "kid" to not get benched, although one can argue he deserved it more than Wendell, for example, who simply regressed to "poor/mediocre" not outright "awful".

I'm a fan of PaW, I can see what they see in him, but kid's not ready to play winning ball right now. As of this moment, the Bulls are better off with him learning from the bench. He's also started exhibiting what Coach D complained about Coby earlier in the year--when he's not playing well on O (TOs, missed shots) his energy on D takes a dump as well, which leads to an unmitigated train-wreck as far as overall performances go. The last play before the half against the Spurs where he didn't even bother to get a hand up to contest DeRozan's jumper probably drove coach D mad.

On O, it may have gone unnoticed, but teams have started giving him the WCJ treatment of not caring one bit if he's on the floor. Given how much firepower the Bulls have in the starting lineup (in theory) right now, he's the one weak link where teams like the Spurs can cheat off (and they did).

He needs 15 min game off the bench, just like Coby, until they start understanding the game better.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Despite his defensive regression, I still expect that Williams will be a better defender at the 4 than Lauri. So I would start there. But that might not be the way to go. In fact, it may help with Williams’ aggressiveness for him to come in off the bench. Might make him feel a little more urgency, which the Bulls need from him.

And that doesn’t even account for what we will do with Theis. For all I know he and Temple will be the starters.

I think Billy hinted when he said the starters will be fluid. He didnt have to say that but when he did, it almost says that the current lineup may not be the real lineup he intends.

Well everyone knows he isn't talking about Zach or Vuce. Highly unlikely Sato either as he is the most reliable point guard at this point. So that leaves Lauri and Pat.

Since Pat is a rookie that certainly isn't out the question. Heck LaMelo and Ant spent a huge chunk of their season off the bench. But as you said "better" options certainly aren't clear. All we have are "different" options which isn't the same.

Lauri its always a polar on the boards. We need Lauris size and shooting but its a question mark. But with Vuce on board, his shooting isn't quite as a high priority. I think someone hitting one or two 3s and solid defense and rebounding can be enough to balance the starters.

I think we will know real soon. Theis is in now so Billy has a full squad to make that decision. I think Pat and Lauri have to bring it against Golden St or they will be cheering from the sidelines on the opening tap next game.

[WindyCityBorn]

Williams hit that rookie wall HARD. I would say he is easily the worst player get heavy minutes right now.

But he hasnt hit the rookie wall though.

His output is exactly the same. All the is changed is increasing pressure, impatience and expectation for him to be more aggressive. That is not a rookie wall.

He had a 23/6/4 game 8 games ago and the first thing people repeat is we want him to be more aggressive.

If he has a good game tonight for instance, its back to us repeating for like the nth time that we want him to be more aggressive.

Funny enough I actually think he was more aggresive last game but was turnover prone. He actually had the most shots in his first stint.

Defensively he has absolutely nosedived. He is right there with Coby as the worst perimeter defender on the team. Every player he guards is blowing by him at will. He was playing respectable defense against guys like Lebron and Kawhi early in the season and now he is a turnstile.

[DuckIII]

Williams hit that rookie wall HARD. I would say he is easily the worst player get heavy minutes right now.

But he hasnt hit the rookie wall though.

His output is exactly the same. All the is changed is increasing pressure, impatience and expectation for him to be more aggressive. That is not a rookie wall.

He had a 23/6/4 game 8 games ago and the first thing people repeat is we want him to be more aggressive.

If he has a good game tonight for instance, its back to us repeating for like the nth time that we want him to be more aggressive.

Funny enough I actually think he was more aggresive last game but was turnover prone. He actually had the most shots in his first stint.

Defensively he has absolutely nosedived. He is right there with Coby as the worst perimeter defender on the team. Every player he guards is blowing by him at all. He was playing respectable defense against guys like Lebron and Kawhi early in the season and now he is a turnstile.

Based on his early season performance this, to me, is both the biggest surprise and the biggest concern.

[DJhitek]

Personally, I don’t even think Patrick would be great off the bench either. I’m not even convinced he should be getting major minutes considering the sorta “win now” circumstances. I’d probably just leave him in the starting lineup and hope he shows more.

Now Lauri to the bench would be the easiest decision this season IMO.

[RoseTheFuture22]

Personally, I don’t even think Patrick would be great off the bench either. I’m not even convinced he should be getting major minutes considering the sorta “win now” circumstances. I’d probably just leave him in the starting lineup and hope he shows more.

Now Lauri to the bench would be the easiest decision this season IMO.

Yep I agree although he is struggling now, if it one thing that AKME/Donovan have been consistent on the entire season it's that his development is either the number 1 or near the top of the priorities for this year. He is going to continue to see minutes because they believe in the long term.

With the moves made last week though it is a pretty clear message to Lauri that he needs to play better(and they probably don't believe in his health) or he is either out next year or going to the bench. The combination of trading for Vuc/Theis to soak up the center minutes means that we now have 4 players who's best position is the 4: Young, Lauri, Williams, and Aminu. Three of those guys have contracts for next year and Lauri is not one of them

[DuckIII]

Well that was a lot better. I know he’s 19, a rookie, no summer league, no training camp, etc. But it’s still frustrating that he comes out like this only every 6-8 games or so.

I’m not even talking about effectiveness. I expect his effectiveness to vary significantly from game to game for the reasons noted above. But I don’t understand why every once in awhile he comes out aggressive and tries to push the issue, and the rest of the time he floats around like a ghost. It just doesn’t make any sense.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Pat was really good against Golden St. He did a bit of everything last night.

As Duck said, the issue is about constantly being engaged and aggressive. The issue to me is that where he is on the offense, he can constantly take his foot off the gas. Being the safety value in the offense is part of the play, but it can mean literally stand at the 3pt line and stay there. He seems reserved to just do that.

To tell you the truth, Pat has looked different the last two games since Vuce arrived. He just had a poor game against the Spurs but it wasn't because he wasn't aggressive. He just had bad turnovers. But I think you would agree, 7 shots in 19 mins for Pat would be considered a lot compared to what we normally see.

I want to see how he responds again for the next game. If he is still getting the touches and continues to be active. If he does again, hopefully its him finally taking that next step in his development.