Pat Williams Discussion - Out 4-6 Mo (late Feb to late April)

[Michael Jackson]

We are cursed.

More than the Warriors? I mean Durant and Klay and Steph? Klay still not fully recovered? Not ideal but far from cursed still. Every team has this. It is a game that creates injuries because of the high level of play, and injuries alter careers. We have had a few the past 2 decades that changed it but much less than Portland has.

[SfBull]

It was the landing.

He landed badly because his dunk movement was awkward.He seems to play scared ,hesitant,he thinks too much before shooting even when wide open , he hesitated for a second before going for dunking giving time for Mitch Robinson´s blocking foul.I hope he can recover well from this injury and can improve his game ,he has obvious skills but won´t be a good NBA player playing scared like that.

Unbelievable that you are blaming Pat's injury on his lack of aggressiveness. He was hit in the face for a flagrant foul while flying in for a dunk - one of the most aggressive plays we have seen from anyone on the team this year.

A movement he apparently wasn't used to.Watching the video you can see how he begins the elevation way before the basket and maybe it can have facilitated Mitch's flagrant foul.Maybe he should have opted for a layup or an assist.

[MrSparkle]

We are cursed.

More than the Warriors? I mean Durant and Klay and Steph? Klay still not fully recovered? Not ideal but far from cursed still. Every team has this. It is a game that creates injuries because of the high level of play, and injuries alter careers. We have had a few the past 2 decades that changed it but much less than Portland has.

Then there are our neighbors in Indy.

- young George and Granger tandem starts looking ECF serious
*cue Granger career ending injuries*

- PG13 becomes good enough to carry them alone
*cue nasty leg break*

- Oladipo has MIP year and moves towards All-NBA nominations
*pile of injuries, hasn't been the same since*

Then Sabonis, Turner, Brogdon get their share of missed games the past year.

On top of this they find out LeVert has cancerous growth AFTER the Oladipo trade.

(Not to mention the Palace brawl... between all this and Phil Jackson's Bulls and Lakers getting in their way... You gotta kind of feel bad for the ole yellow and blue fans. Besides for the fact that they're our mortal enemies.)

I look East and don't feel bad as a Bull at all. At least MOST of our injury prone picks besides Rose weren't good/making playoff games to begin with (including Pat- although I am extremely bummed about this).

[SfBull]

I’m totally opposed to trading yet another 1st rounder for a Pat replacement.

We played four bad teams and got smacked by the first real one. Can we make sure this roster is good first?

Got smacked? We played like **** and lost by one point against a team playing the October Super Bowl.
.

They controlled that game until we went on a run in the final 2 minutes. Sometimes the final score doesn’t tell the story.

Also, I don’t know what “a team playing the October Super Bowl” means. Are we faulting a team that routinely plays hard, for playing hard?

People who watched the game saw how we were dominated by the Knicks not deserving winning the game.

[MrSparkle]

I've got to be honest, much of my high ceiling hopes were on the x-factor of Pat putting it together. It's really ironic that he got injured right as he flashed some major power game and hops with a monstrous dunk attempt. Robinson didn't intend a dirty play, but damn, that was as hard a freaking chop to the face that you could've given an airborne 225 lb. kid.

Anyway, in some ways I realize Pat's production was so little it won't feel like he's missed. But in the long-term run of this season, I think his depth will be missed a lot. He was supposed to cover the Lebrons, Jimmys, and Durants, and we never even got there. His growth will also be missed.

Hopefully one of these guys jumps at the starting opportunity. I know that Javonte isn't gonna work every night. Maybe Donovan plays a little bit of musical chairs. We haven't really seen Alize alongside Vuc. Against Gobert, it might need to be considered.

[SfBull]

I'm sorry for Patrick Williams personally.

For the Bulls however fate meant well.
We were just about to sacrifice present success in order to develop a bust, just for the reason he was drafted #4.

No fire inside still means not worth to wear a Bulls jersey, just from my old fashioned pov.

I think you're absolutely right.In this thread we're discussing Pat's injury,which was bad exactly because that hard landing he made after being fouled when trying to dunk.I strongly wish he can recover completely from this injury which can need perhaps a complex surgical procedure .
But for me it was clear he wasn't playing well for starting in regular season .Green played consistently well since the preseason so there was no reason for starting Pat except perhaps Donovan's stubbornness . Williams was clearly being abused by opposed PFs so maybe BD should have brought him slowly off the bench like a rookie.Maybe he was trying to do too much for starting.

[HarthorneWingo]

Sorry to hear about your man, PWill. I don't remember the play. I really like Patrick and wanted the Knicks to draft him at 8 so I hope he's back better than ever.

[SfBull]

Not going to panic right now. As some of the posters have said, this hurts because PWill loses one year to develop.

Now Donovan will look to replace the 25mpg that Pat was playing at with what we have on our bench. Maybe green, Jones, Johnson and Bradley can all pick up more minutes. Splitting the 25 min between those guys isn't the worst thing in thing in the world.

You're talking like Pat was such a great player who necessarily had to start for being developed .I can't help but disagreeing with you ,I think he should have been brought off the bench playing with the second unit just because he wasn't showing up the skills for starting.Maybe AK drafted him too early ,a player who wasn't even a starter for Florida State ,who ,showed some interesting skills in College but perhaps wasn't ready for playing in the NBA.That's nothing wrong with that , we're watching what a NBA ready a player coming from the same system ( Barnes) can do from the start.Some players can't translate his games for the NBA level ,so many examples in the past.I just hope he can recover completely for working out looking for improving his overall game .No need for playing him 25mpg for development, when he returns,let him improve his skills for earning the starting spot .

[SfBull]

Read on Twitter

He clearly doesn’t see size as an issue. Which is a problem imo. Can’t have Lonzo holding their best players going forward. Especially if their a PF.

I was just saying the same thing in a different thread, and this topic my deserve its own thread.

Is BD (or the FO) too obsessed with small ball?

They're going to lose many games against taller teams being obsessed with playing small.

[chifan1798]

This effing sucks. I feel bad for him, and for the team. I hope that he can recover, and continue to grow as a player.

When I was wondering why DJJ hadn’t been playing, I didn’t want his playing time to be determined by a major injury to PWill.

[SfBull]

He clearly doesn’t see size as an issue. Which is a problem imo. Can’t have Lonzo holding their best players going forward. Especially if their a PF.

I was just saying the same thing in a different thread, and this topic my deserve its own thread.

Is BD (or the FO) too obsessed with small ball?

Seems to be the case. Didn’t want to play Bradley until he was backed into a corner with Pat hurt and Bradley actually looked solid as a drop coverage defender, rim protector and rebounder. Small sample size but it’s not like he’s food or something, frustrating that Billy didn’t play him until then when we’ve gotten out rebounded by 36 the last two games.

Didn't want to play DJJ either considering giving him some playing time only when forced by Pat's injury . Wrong strategy,we have our best team in years but we're still in need for bigs especially in defense.

[SfBull]

I’m totally opposed to trading yet another 1st rounder for a Pat replacement.

We played four bad teams and got smacked by the first real one. Can we make sure this roster is good first?

+1. The Bulls won't make any "go for it" moves until the deadline. What if Zach gets a knee injury next week?

Maybe you swap out Thomas for Stanley Johnson but that's probably about it.

If PWill is still considered the long term solution at PF then giving up much to replace him short term would be a bad idea.

I'm all for signing a PF on a prove it kind of deal. Not really interested in trading anything for awhile. Need to figure out what this team is first.

The notion of Pat being the long term solution at 4 was debatable at best .

[dabig3]

Feel really bad for the kid. Just an avalanche of **** injuries these last several months when everyone else was celebrating and vibing. I know that must've contributed some to the slower start, and now this? Really unfair.

I don't know what moves Bulls can do to shore up what was already a weak frontcourt, but I think now's the time to shake the dust off Tony Bradley and DJJ. They need to be brought into the rotation, because I'm not relying on Green/Alize for more than 40+ minutes a night against the beast of a schedule coming up.
And Zach's injury also concerns me, so maybe DJJ can help play that 3 spot Zach spends some time at. I don't know. But rotations need to be adjusted with these injuries and setbacks.

So I hope Pat comes back this season - fully healthy - but the Bulls can still manage and come out of this ahead somewhat.

[SfBull]

As does moving on from Lauri. I have to think that, given that it looks like he's solidified his ability to play the 3 and is blossoming into a good defender, he would be a perfect fit for this team.

At the risk of opening up this can of you know what again, who is making these assessments?

NBA Twitter. and I've been watching the Cavs games when the Bulls aren't playing. Over the past 3 games as the primary defender against PG, MPJ, and DeAndre Hunter they went a combined 15-50 for 35 points.

The Cavs are 3-2 starting Lauri at SF. His shots aren't right now, but they will eventually. I know it's a moot point as that ship has long since sailed, I just think this current version of Lauri would be close to an ideal fit for this team.

Read on Twitter

Or maybe he just found the perfect roster for developing his skills, playing along 2 bigs .Maybe the Bulls wasn't the best roster for him after all .

[Grodoboldo]

According to this link, KAT suffered a similar injury in 2020.

"Karl-Anthony Towns (left wrist dislocation) out indefinitely | NBA.com" https://www.nba.com/news/karl-anthony-towns-diagnosed-with-left-wrist-dislocation-out-indefinitely?amp=1

The Minnesota Timberwolves today announced the following injury update on center Karl-Anthony Towns:

During the fourth quarter of Saturday’s game against the Utah Jazz, Towns sustained an injury to his left wrist. He was evaluated by a hand specialist today in Los Angeles, which revealed a left perilunate subluxation (dislocation). Towns will be listed as out for tonight’s game against the Los Angeles Lakers and will be further evaluated weekly as he undergoes treatment to return to play. He will not require surgery.

In his first two games of the season, Towns is averaging 22.6 points, 11.5 rebounds and 5.0 assists per games. "


Further reading in other places lead me to believe that his case wasn't as serious as Pat's. My guess is that with this being a closed injury, the degree of subluxation is variable, which might affect the damage to the ligaments and nerves. This is very important, because from what I understand (I'm not an orthopedic surgeon) it's what actually leads to long term limitations to the wrist movements.

[SfBull]

Hey Bulls fans.

Sorry to hear about the bad PatWill news. I hope he makes a full recovery. His youth works in his favour for it. As does his work to get back.

Touching off of that, I'm quite surprised to read about the disappointment in him overall, and the range in career projections already falling from the early hype. I'm also surprised that it's his motor that sometimes comes into question.

I thought that even though he was a #4 pick he would have been brought along a bit more slowly because he was so young and inexperienced even at the college level. The physical profile and skill set are tantalizing, but work ethic never came up as a issue from what I'd read about him for that draft. I didn't expect him to start and I wonder whether putting him in that position was a bit overwhelming and whether doing so was in part because he was drafted so high.

I wonder, too, whether his dropping off at times was a function of both being put in too big a leap expectation and also being now a starter but as a fourth option, so it's like his position on the team was demoted. I wonder if he saw it that way rather than the team getting the help any team would if given a chance to upgrade.

Just seems like there have been a lot of factors contributing to his up and down level of play and effort/execution.

Anyway, I hope he heals well and fully and he maximizes his potential with your team. I still think he's a tremendous prospect.

I agree almost 100% with you ,just don't think of Williams being a tremendous prospect even before his injury.

[BullChit]

Got smacked? We played like **** and lost by one point against a team playing the October Super Bowl.
.

They controlled that game until we went on a run in the final 2 minutes. Sometimes the final score doesn’t tell the story.

Also, I don’t know what “a team playing the October Super Bowl” means. Are we faulting a team that routinely plays hard, for playing hard?

People who watched the game saw how we were dominated by the Knicks not deserving winning the game.

If the Knicks lost it because we made a run in the last minute and a half do the Knicks not deserve that L?

If Toronto beat us after being down by 20 do they not deserve that win?

The game is played for 48 minutes and while it's true the Knicks executed better than us for the majority of the game they were a DeRozan jump shot away from having an L in their win-loss record even after being the better team.

[WookieOnRitalin]

Man, what a bad blow for Pat.

As to the injury type, this is not an uncommon injury.

See, your wrist is a stack of 8 points called your carpals. The lunate (a crescent looking carpal) is the most commonly dislocated carpal. There are serious implications already mentioned with this type of dislocation especially with regards to the median nerve (running through the carpal tunnel). Damage to the nerve can cause a variety of issues for innervating some of the musculature in the hand that can impact common functions like gripping, flexing/extending digits, etc. While this "can" happen it does not happen very often. People recover from these injuries and Pat will have the best doctors around to help insure that that to be the case.

Just a long road back, but considering his age, Pat should be fine. It just definitely hurts the Bulls chances of making any noise in the playoffs as they could not afford to get even thinner in the front court. Yikes.

[The Evidence]

So uh does Mitchell Robinson catch any flack for this? He potential ended a guy’s career with a flagrant foul.


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He better watch his step.

[eierluke]

This intentional foul by Robinson might not just end p.Williams career, it might be the end of Matt Thomes NBA career either.
He is the odd man out when we have to clear a roster spot for a Williams replacement.