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2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#541 » by LateNight » Thu May 16, 2024 6:13 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
Chi town wrote:Still not sold on Castle. If the shot doesn’t come he’s Hart. Solid and helpful but not nearly enough at a position we don’t really need it.


Thats the thing with Castle. It’s only the perimeter shot that is in question. If that develops, and plenty of players have been showing it can, he’s a complete player. He has everything else.

As for team needs, like using the pick at all rather than trading it, there is what should logically be done and what AK will do. These concepts virtually never overlap.

What Should Be Done: Draft for the future, which means talent, skill and position be damned. It should not matter what the roster looks like today because this roster is the 20th best team in the NBA, has an old core, and is just a dead man walking.

What AK Will Likely Do: Trade the pick for an immediate impact veteran or draft a non-project plug and play prospect to quickly fill the team needs he spent the last two years completely ignoring. Like reaching for a center. These moves make sense if your goal is to “compete” with DDR but make no sense at all if you are not a moron.


Hmm, I'm not so sure about "what AK will likely do." I suppose a trade for a vet is possible, but AK has not done that since the initial rebuild. Perhaps he will now that he proclaims to be done with the continuity plan. To the extent he uses the pick, his draft history does not really suggest he's a plug-and-play guy.

White - sort of a mix of a project and a ready guy when drafted
Gafford - raw project with tools
Patrick Williams - massively unproven when drafted. Young, didn't start in college, not ready to play. Drafted for upside.
Marko - ehh I don't know what he is, but he was certainly a project
Ayo - immediate contributor, older player
Dalen Terry - young toolsy project


GarPax drafted white & gafford
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#542 » by Red8911 » Thu May 16, 2024 6:17 pm

prolific passer wrote:So focused on what AK is looking for but what is Billy looking for in this draft?

A short guard who can play center.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#543 » by prolific passer » Thu May 16, 2024 6:22 pm

Red8911 wrote:
prolific passer wrote:So focused on what AK is looking for but what is Billy looking for in this draft?

A short guard who can play center.

Bob Knight suggested that the blazers should do that with Jordan back in the day.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#544 » by Chi town » Thu May 16, 2024 6:48 pm

prolific passer wrote:So focused on what AK is looking for but what is Billy looking for in this draft?


That’s what we will never know. It could be Billy is just as stupid as AK. How can they be in “lock step” like reported and Billy agree to this garbage???

Billy is the same guy that has a disgruntled Zach because of him too.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#545 » by Chi town » Thu May 16, 2024 6:49 pm

prolific passer wrote:
Red8911 wrote:
prolific passer wrote:So focused on what AK is looking for but what is Billy looking for in this draft?

A short guard who can play center.

Bob Knight suggested that the blazers should do that with Jordan back in the day.


And he was right!!!
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#546 » by prolific passer » Thu May 16, 2024 6:52 pm

Chi town wrote:
prolific passer wrote:So focused on what AK is looking for but what is Billy looking for in this draft?


That’s what we will never know. It could be Billy is just as stupid as AK. How can they be in “lock step” like reported and Billy agree to this garbage???

Billy is the same guy that has a disgruntled Zach because of him too.

The GM and head coach not on the same page? That's not what the bulls do. :wink:
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#547 » by boozapalooza » Thu May 16, 2024 7:11 pm

DuckIII wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
boozapalooza wrote:
Read on Twitter


The length, athleticism , passing, shooting….yes please. Sign me up. This could be a big time high upside pick at 11. Question is, can we develop someone who may need a year or two to adjust to the NBA game. The answer is no so far, but maybe Salaun is a different story.


Are Coby and Ayo not evidence of an ability to develop players?


Yes they are. And I’m a fan of taking Salaun (and a couple other developmental guys).


Im talking about PWill, Dalen, and Phillips as comps. I think those are appropriate to look at given theyre all wing guys with similar size to Salaun and were all much bigger projects when drafted. The door is still open on all 3 but we can all agree PWill has been a disappointment and Dalen/Phillips haven’t gotten enough minutes. Ayo was a 3 yr college star and Coby was a GarPax pick.

Salaun has all the tools to be a good player, but its gonna come down to him going to the right organization that has a solid plan for him.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#548 » by jnrjr79 » Thu May 16, 2024 7:14 pm

LateNight wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
Thats the thing with Castle. It’s only the perimeter shot that is in question. If that develops, and plenty of players have been showing it can, he’s a complete player. He has everything else.

As for team needs, like using the pick at all rather than trading it, there is what should logically be done and what AK will do. These concepts virtually never overlap.

What Should Be Done: Draft for the future, which means talent, skill and position be damned. It should not matter what the roster looks like today because this roster is the 20th best team in the NBA, has an old core, and is just a dead man walking.

What AK Will Likely Do: Trade the pick for an immediate impact veteran or draft a non-project plug and play prospect to quickly fill the team needs he spent the last two years completely ignoring. Like reaching for a center. These moves make sense if your goal is to “compete” with DDR but make no sense at all if you are not a moron.


Hmm, I'm not so sure about "what AK will likely do." I suppose a trade for a vet is possible, but AK has not done that since the initial rebuild. Perhaps he will now that he proclaims to be done with the continuity plan. To the extent he uses the pick, his draft history does not really suggest he's a plug-and-play guy.

White - sort of a mix of a project and a ready guy when drafted
Gafford - raw project with tools
Patrick Williams - massively unproven when drafted. Young, didn't start in college, not ready to play. Drafted for upside.
Marko - ehh I don't know what he is, but he was certainly a project
Ayo - immediate contributor, older player
Dalen Terry - young toolsy project


GarPax drafted white & gafford



Durrrp. Good call! It makes it funnier because it means Ayo is AKME's only good draft pick. Maybe trading these picks away was smart, after all, since AKME wouldn't use them well.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#549 » by drosestruts » Thu May 16, 2024 7:22 pm

I'm not sure what "which front office drafted White" has to do with the fact that his development has largely fallen under the time-period of the current regime.

Yes he was drafted by and played under GarPax for a year, the 4 years since have been with AK/ME and Donovan.

If you're looking for rookies to make big impacts on winning in the NBA you're unfortunately watching basketball in the wrong decade.

Hell Wemby just had the lowest win % for a #1 pick in the history of the NBA. It is, and has been, a new day.

If you're drafting a 19 year old, it's best to have some patience.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#550 » by jnrjr79 » Thu May 16, 2024 7:27 pm

drosestruts wrote:I'm not sure what "which front office drafted White" has to do with the fact that his development has largely fallen under the time-period of the current regime.

Yes he was drafted by and played under GarPax for a year, the 4 years since have been with AK/ME and Donovan.

If you're looking for rookies to make big impacts on winning in the NBA you're unfortunately watching basketball in the wrong decade.

Hell Wemby just had the lowest win % for a #1 pick in the history of the NBA. It is, and has been, a new day.

If you're drafting a 19 year old, it's best to have some patience.


The discussion about who drafted White was about what AKME's draft history suggests it will do in this upcoming draft. It wasn't related to who gets credit for his development.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#551 » by Dan Z » Thu May 16, 2024 7:43 pm

DuckIII wrote:
Dan Z wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
I assume those comments begin and end with his 3 ball. Which is legit. But he has all the other attributes you’d like to see.




Winner. Not because of this interview, but because of the way he plays. Interesting that he said he views himself more as a point guard. He definitely can pass like one which is one of the reasons I’m so high on him.

In the Around the NBA thread I mentioned that it’s not a coincidence that the soul of the Knicks is 3 of Jay Wright’s Villanova guys. I’m not at all a believer in “program” drafting because it’s a crap shoot and most elite college programs are based on recruiting and overwhelming depth of talent, not coaching.

Jay Wright is an exception to that. I would factor in program for his players and it’s part of the reason I led the charge to draft Mikal Bridges when many thought he was a reach at 7.

Dan Hurley is Jay Wright’s successor in this. UCONN is boot camp and Hurley will be producing Green Berets. I think Castle is one of them. I wouldn’t pick him because of Hurley, but as with Wright, I definitely consider it a factor.


I was surprised that the Bulls passed on Mikal Bridges because he felt like a GarPax pick. Plus, he brought skills that I think aren't easy to fine (3&D).

As for Castle...did he play PG in high school? I think I read that somewhere, but I'm not sure. I don't know enough about him, but my instinct says he'll work hard in a similar way to players like Josh Hart and Butler do (although I'm not saying he's exactly like them).

Every mock I've seen has Castle going before the Bulls pick so if AK wants to get him it'll probably mean they'll need to make a trade to move up.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#552 » by kodo » Thu May 16, 2024 7:50 pm

"This is like Derrick Lively or Tobias Harris being the number one"
(Isn't there a big gap between Harris & Lively? Harris peaked at 20 ppg 8 rpg on 40% 3P shooting and great D)

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#553 » by Dan Z » Thu May 16, 2024 9:05 pm

kodo wrote:"This is like Derrick Lively or Tobias Harris being the number one"
(Isn't there a big gap between Harris & Lively? Harris peaked at 20 ppg 8 rpg on 40% 3P shooting and great D)



There will be good players in this draft, but it's not easy to find them.

Atlanta is in an interesting position. In a way they have to draft Sarr because he's different than other prospect in this draft and they probably won't get a good enough offer to trade the pick. They could go in another route, but does Risacher, Topic (who is hurt) or Holland make sense at #1?
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#554 » by DuckIII » Thu May 16, 2024 11:27 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
Chi town wrote:Still not sold on Castle. If the shot doesn’t come he’s Hart. Solid and helpful but not nearly enough at a position we don’t really need it.


Thats the thing with Castle. It’s only the perimeter shot that is in question. If that develops, and plenty of players have been showing it can, he’s a complete player. He has everything else.

As for team needs, like using the pick at all rather than trading it, there is what should logically be done and what AK will do. These concepts virtually never overlap.

What Should Be Done: Draft for the future, which means talent, skill and position be damned. It should not matter what the roster looks like today because this roster is the 20th best team in the NBA, has an old core, and is just a dead man walking.

What AK Will Likely Do: Trade the pick for an immediate impact veteran or draft a non-project plug and play prospect to quickly fill the team needs he spent the last two years completely ignoring. Like reaching for a center. These moves make sense if your goal is to “compete” with DDR but make no sense at all if you are not a moron.


Hmm, I'm not so sure about "what AK will likely do." I suppose a trade for a vet is possible, but AK has not done that since the initial rebuild. Perhaps he will now that he proclaims to be done with the continuity plan. To the extent he uses the pick, his draft history does not really suggest he's a plug-and-play guy.

White - sort of a mix of a project and a ready guy when drafted
Gafford - raw project with tools
Patrick Williams - massively unproven when drafted. Young, didn't start in college, not ready to play. Drafted for upside.
Marko - ehh I don't know what he is, but he was certainly a project
Ayo - immediate contributor, older player
Dalen Terry - young toolsy project


It’s context specific. The walls are closing in. AK can’t breathe. Wait, what was that sound? Did you hear that? No we’re not. That’s . . . that’s a lie. We’re competitive. Watch me compete! I’ll show you! I’ll show everyone!
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#555 » by Chi town » Fri May 17, 2024 12:16 am

AK wants to win not build a winner.

Hence he will make a dumb forced pick or trade it.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#556 » by 2weekswithpay » Fri May 17, 2024 12:47 am

With the combine results being posted, these are my thoughts on some players.

Dalton Knecht - With his great combine numbers, I hope we can stop comparing Knecht to one-dimensional 3pt shooters like McDermott. His shooting is the selling point but Knecht is a better athlete and offers more as a creator than the usual shooters. The defense is still an issue but I don't think he's a lost cause on that end. Bad defenders have improved before, Max Strus had a -1 DBPM as a senior and he's a solid defender right now and this is after tearing his ACL. Knecht does have the size to offer some value on defense.

Kyle Filipowski - A bit disappointed with his short wingspan. 6'10.75' with a 6'10.50'' wingspan. Hard to envision Flip ever being a full time starting 5 since I don't believe he can anchor a defense even with his improvements on that end. His mobility was better this season after he had hip surgery, he can't switch onto guards but he should be able to switch on most wings/forwards. His mobility should help him at the 4 and while he isn't the best rim protector, he's still 7ft and that's valuable as a help defender. He's the best passing big in this draft class and improved significantly as a sophomore. The shooting is still a question mark but 7 footers that can dribble/pass/shoot aren't easy to find. Bigs that can be offensive hubs in short stretches can have value. Look at what Hartenstien is doing in NY.

Ja'Kobe Walter - A shooter who didn't shoot all that well this year. After a hot start, Walter went into a really bad shooting slump that tanked his shooting percentages. Walter shot over 80% from the FT line on good volume and he has good shooting mechanics so people still buy his ability to shoot. He isn't a good playmaker/ballhandler and was probably asked to do too much at Baylor. A simplified role in the NBA should help him. Wasn't a good defender but does have good size for a SG. 6'4.25 with a 6'10 wingspan. You hope that you can turn him into another 3&D guard/wing like KCP or Aaron Nesmith.

Isaiah Collier - Was not as tall as people speculated. Collier was listed as 6'4/6'5 but measured as 6'2.50 with a 6'4.75 wingspan. Collier is still built like a tank but the slightly smaller size hurts his stock a bit since he's a slashing guard and won't be able to bully opponents like he did at USC. People understandably don't want another guard but Collier's slashing is a good complement to Coby's shooting ability. He had issues with decision-making and TOs. Playing with NBA spacing will help him but he still needs reps with the ball, so if the Bulls bring back Demar, (They will) he doesn't make much sense at 11th. Doesn't shoot, rebound, or defend so he has a lot to improve on.

Yves Missi - Raw athletic rim running 5. Missi is a great athlete and there's a pathway for him to be the starting 5. Good size at just under 6'11, great leaper, finished well at the rim, and has good mobility. He's pretty good for someone who has only played organized basketball for 3 years. The appeal is understandable considering we haven't had an athletic 5 since Gafford. For the downsides, like most athletic bigs, Missi can't shoot at all and he's an awful passer. Missi's AST% is really low, having a AST% < 4 can be a red flag. Since 2010, these are the bigs that were drafted in the first round with an AST% < 4.
Spoiler:
Jaxson Hayes Andrew Nicholson Mo Bamba Mfiondu Kabengele Festus Ezeli Andre Drummond Adreian Payne Damian Jones Miles Plumlee


Despite his size and athleticism, Missi didn't block as many shots as you'd expect and wasn't a good defensive rebounder. Statistically, he performed similarly to freshman Gafford which isn't a criticism but there are downsides to drafting a player of this archetype this high in the draft. For every Dereck Lively, there's a James Wiseman or Jaxson Hayes. I don't hate the player but picking him at 11 is concerning.

Cody Williams - People are down on Cody Williams. He's a worse rebounder than Pat was in college. He doesn't get blocks or steals, is not a ballhandler/playmaker, and doesn't have a history of shooting the ball well. Is known for disappearing in games, and a lot of our frustrations with Pat can be seen in Cody. For the positives, Cody played great for the first 1 months of the season. Then he suffered a wrist injury, and after that, he got hit in the face and had to wear a mask, then he sprained his ankle. Not making excuses for him but you can say injuries derailed his season. Not an explosive athlete but does get downhill and was very efficient at converting shots around the basket. He shot 73.6% at the rim which is great and it's even more impressive when Cody is only 178lbs. He needs a lot of work but I don't know if this team can pass up on front court depth
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#557 » by Almost Retired » Fri May 17, 2024 12:35 pm

At 11 I'd go with Knecht if he's still on the board because of his age. Highest floor in the 6-12 range. And probably able to contribute even as a rookie because shooting translates. If he's not available then I'd probably resort to Filipowski, but as a PF, not as a center. Missi is too raw. Williams is too skinny, Collier is too short, Walter is redundant.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#558 » by Brothaman33 » Fri May 17, 2024 1:23 pm

2weekswithpay wrote:With the combine results being posted, these are my thoughts on some players.

Dalton Knecht - With his great combine numbers, I hope we can stop comparing Knecht to one-dimensional 3pt shooters like McDermott. His shooting is the selling point but Knecht is a better athlete and offers more as a creator than the usual shooters. The defense is still an issue but I don't think he's a lost cause on that end. Bad defenders have improved before, Max Strus had a -1 DBPM as a senior and he's a solid defender right now and this is after tearing his ACL. Knecht does have the size to offer some value on defense.

Kyle Filipowski - A bit disappointed with his short wingspan. 6'10.75' with a 6'10.50'' wingspan. Hard to envision Flip ever being a full time starting 5 since I don't believe he can anchor a defense even with his improvements on that end. His mobility was better this season after he had hip surgery, he can't switch onto guards but he should be able to switch on most wings/forwards. His mobility should help him at the 4 and while he isn't the best rim protector, he's still 7ft and that's valuable as a help defender. He's the best passing big in this draft class and improved significantly as a sophomore. The shooting is still a question mark but 7 footers that can dribble/pass/shoot aren't easy to find. Bigs that can be offensive hubs in short stretches can have value. Look at what Hartenstien is doing in NY.

Ja'Kobe Walter - A shooter who didn't shoot all that well this year. After a hot start, Walter went into a really bad shooting slump that tanked his shooting percentages. Walter shot over 80% from the FT line on good volume and he has good shooting mechanics so people still buy his ability to shoot. He isn't a good playmaker/ballhandler and was probably asked to do too much at Baylor. A simplified role in the NBA should help him. Wasn't a good defender but does have good size for a SG. 6'4.25 with a 6'10 wingspan. You hope that you can turn him into another 3&D guard/wing like KCP or Aaron Nesmith.

Isaiah Collier - Was not as tall as people speculated. Collier was listed as 6'4/6'5 but measured as 6'2.50 with a 6'4.75 wingspan. Collier is still built like a tank but the slightly smaller size hurts his stock a bit since he's a slashing guard and won't be able to bully opponents like he did at USC. People understandably don't want another guard but Collier's slashing is a good complement to Coby's shooting ability. He had issues with decision-making and TOs. Playing with NBA spacing will help him but he still needs reps with the ball, so if the Bulls bring back Demar, (They will) he doesn't make much sense at 11th. Doesn't shoot, rebound, or defend so he has a lot to improve on.

Yves Missi - Raw athletic rim running 5. Missi is a great athlete and there's a pathway for him to be the starting 5. Good size at just under 6'11, great leaper, finished well at the rim, and has good mobility. He's pretty good for someone who has only played organized basketball for 3 years. The appeal is understandable considering we haven't had an athletic 5 since Gafford. For the downsides, like most athletic bigs, Missi can't shoot at all and he's an awful passer. Missi's AST% is really low, having a AST% < 4 can be a red flag. Since 2010, these are the bigs that were drafted in the first round with an AST% < 4.
Spoiler:
Jaxson Hayes Andrew Nicholson Mo Bamba Mfiondu Kabengele Festus Ezeli Andre Drummond Adreian Payne Damian Jones Miles Plumlee


Despite his size and athleticism, Missi didn't block as many shots as you'd expect and wasn't a good defensive rebounder. Statistically, he performed similarly to freshman Gafford which isn't a criticism but there are downsides to drafting a player of this archetype this high in the draft. For every Dereck Lively, there's a James Wiseman or Jaxson Hayes. I don't hate the player but picking him at 11 is concerning.

Cody Williams - People are down on Cody Williams. He's a worse rebounder than Pat was in college. He doesn't get blocks or steals, is not a ballhandler/playmaker, and doesn't have a history of shooting the ball well. Is known for disappearing in games, and a lot of our frustrations with Pat can be seen in Cody. For the positives, Cody played great for the first 1 months of the season. Then he suffered a wrist injury, and after that, he got hit in the face and had to wear a mask, then he sprained his ankle. Not making excuses for him but you can say injuries derailed his season. Not an explosive athlete but does get downhill and was very efficient at converting shots around the basket. He shot 73.6% at the rim which is great and it's even more impressive when Cody is only 178lbs. He needs a lot of work but I don't know if this team can pass up on front court depth


I really enjoyed your breakdowns. I few responses to these:

- I'm more of a Knecht fan then not... but I am not as bullish as you on the defense. The McDermott and Strus comparisons are interesting. I would say Knecht is a better athlete then McDermott but not Strus. McDermott could just not hang laterally, consistently on the defensive end. It wasnt about his vertical leap or size...he just cant move his feet well enough. I just see some heavy feet with Knecht. I think he's gonna score the ball and that release is quick and he'll shoot it with a hand in the face too. At 11, and in this draft, I would take him without hesitation.

- I'm more of a Missi fan. But again, its because of the lack of depth/talent in this draft. I love the high ceiling and I love the lob threat. The thing I love the most is the motor. Dude runs the floor hard, knows what he is there for and plays with a fire and passion that I like. You need that with the young athletic big men. If you get a kid who is capped as a rim running big, but plays hard and competes, I'll take a chance on that. Anything else he learns and improves on is gravy. Again, only because this draft looks very weak.

- Filipowski...reminds me a bit of Kelly Olynyk to me. I hated Olynyk coming out, short arms, average athlete and I didnt see a high ceiling. But he knew how to play. I see the same with Filipowski, I think his IQ and size are what will make him succeed. If he shoots it well he could be a very nice piece. Hes not a quick or agile as Olynyk is but I just think he is just a smart, skilled ball player.

Curious on if you've watched Topic, Clingan or Risacher? Thoughts?
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#559 » by kodo » Fri May 17, 2024 3:26 pm

I would guess AK wants Risacher, but he's probably going top 8 so the most available prospects with AK-ness are Cody Williams and Salaun. But I wonder if there is a limit to this mid-size type of player who doesn't have a specific NBA skill that AK is willing to collect, and he finally picks another type of player.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft - DA BULLS Edition Pick #11 

Post#560 » by Red8911 » Fri May 17, 2024 4:36 pm

Dan Z wrote:"Here are some Bulls' possibilities at No. 11 in NBA Draft" by K.C. Johnson.

https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/nba/chicago-bulls/bulls-analysis/bulls-possibilities-in-nba-draft/561746/

KC admitted that he pretty much has no idea who the bulls would want to draft.He just made up that list.

Maybe when they start working guys out he will have a better idea but right now his guess is as good as anybody’s.

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