LaVine traded to the Kings as part of 3 team deal (Huerter, Tre Jones to Bulls)

[Jcool0]

It's easy for fans to play backseat GM and say "they should have traded XX sooner." Fans don't know what the owners are saying yesmor no team, what direction the owners are forcing on the Game, what offers they have gotten, etc. Fans also don't suffer the consequences that a GM would for a trade blowing up on them.

That being said, AKME waited too damn long to trade certain pieces. I'm not sure if Zach ever had much value after the extension. Caruso most definitely did. They should have gotten a better deal than Giddey by trading Caruso sooner.

I agree with everything in your first paragraph. And then you completely contradicted that paragraph with the second paragraph.

I think Caruso is the exception to what I was saying. This is based on reports that teams were willing to pay a premium for Caruso around the trade deadline prior to him being traded. I think it's clear they could have gotten a better deal for him if they traded him earlier.

4 first round picks are currently in double digit scoring. Jared McCain was at 15.3 ppg (he is out for the year), picks 1 &2 are currently at around 11 ppg & Stephon Castle is at 12 ppg. The guy everyone thought would translate the fasted Reed Sheppard is playing mostly in the G League. Matas might end up being the best from this class & he went 11th. Not sure this was the best draft for a top 10 pick.

[Infinity2152]

We swapped an expiring 29 year old Caruso, career average 7pts, 3assists 3 rebounds, for a 21-year-old player career average 14 pts, 6 assts, 7 rebounds with a year left on rookie scale. Giddey's a far better playmaker and rebounder and 8 years younger, we were not getting first round picks plus Giddey for Caruso because Caruso's a much better defender. Caruso's also injured far more often already, and he's getting older. If you believe Giddey reaches his potential, at his age he's the equivalent of a high first round pick, he just gets his second contract sooner.

Why I think it's strange guys say they want to rebuild, then trade the young talent. Pat Will for instance. He's at his lowest trade value. He's young. If he plays bad this year, so what? His value is not getting lower. It could improve to where he's a core piece. Giddey's young. Unless we're going all in on winning next year, our new rookie could do worse than being on the court with Coby, Matas, Pat and Giddey. Giddey and Pat get way more usage. Get a good young center, if they lose they lose. But we're relatively cheap, Pat and Giddey are our biggest contracts, we're young, with a lot of recent top 10draft picks starting.

[bullskokie]

It may be valid to say our record will be about the same with or without Zach but one important factor we did not do. We never assembled a team for Zach. Instead, we brought in Demar, killed our spacing and essentially killed Zach’s growth as a player. You then have low IQ players like Coby, Pat with then Zach and you expect them to be a winning team?

[cool007]

It may be valid to say our record will be about the same with or without Zach but one important factor we did not do. We never assembled a team for Zach. Instead, we brought in Demar, killed our spacing and essentially killed Zach’s growth as a player. You then have low IQ players like Coby, Pat with then Zach and you expect them to be a winning team?

Well said. The only LEGIT point guard that Lavine played with was with Lonzo and that was only for a half a season with a descent team and we know how good we were.

Kings are making that same mistake. Without having a LEGIT point guard, they are going to look the same as Bulls. Monk dominating the ball as a guard and Demar taking his turn.

It will take some time for Lavine and Sabonis to develop some chemistry but that combo will be solid but still don't see them as top 6 in the west.

[Adriano]

I really doesnt get what AK is doing or thinking. Hell, not even Billy Donovan knows and said It in the press conference before the game against the Heat. He hits a blow in the FO when he said that he is not afraid a rebuilding but he doesnt know what direction FO is on mind. Probably he already knew that Vuc or Coby wont be traded (If so I think they will sit on that game), and even him doesnt get the plan of trading a 28 yr old Zach and mantaining Vuc on the team.

Ok, I get it, is for salary relief, but unless the FO has in secret a promissing deal with a top FA in 25 or 26, this doesnt make any sense. And will make even less If they overpaid Giddey (my biggest concerned for the moment). I dont have a problem in mantaining Vuc (he is playing one of the best seasons of his carrer) and Coby, I have no problem in gives 2/20 with a team option for year two for Lonzo, but this doesnt make this team a bottom top 3 in this league. If the resign Giddey for the same amount money that Vuc makes and let Vuc and the bunch of chip of bags who we get in that trade for LaVine walk, makes a good top 8 lottery pick and landing a great FA with the salary relief or TPE they acquire with LaVine then, I (and Billy I guess) will get this trade. If they dont, we just lost a 25 ppg guy who wants to be here for nothing.

The ball is with you and the clock is running, AK. Do something to justify that move.

[WesPeace]

Kings arent a good fit, if they dont get true PG.. heck Lavine and DeRozan are bad fit, if they didnt see enough evidence in Bulls!

But Kings arent the smartest organization, same as current clueless Bulls

Sacramento added Jonas for C depth,thats solid at least - but that team I cant see going far... a lot of misfits! I felt Sorry for Lavine that got traded there, but at least he is 45min drive from home,if nothing else.

[Adriano]

Kings arent a good fit, if they dont get true PG.. heck Lavine and DeRozan are bad fit, if they didnt see enough evidence in Bulls!

But Kings arent the smartest organization, same as current clueless Bulls

Sacramento added Jonas for C depth,thats solid at least - but that team I cant see going far... a lot of misfits! I felt Sorry for Lavine that got traded there, but at least he is 45min drive from home,if nothing else.

Who knows? If they need a center and LaVine and DDR didnt work again they can trade LaVine back to us for Vucevic + expirings.

Two dumb FO like these ones can make this.

[sco]

Kings arent a good fit, if they dont get true PG.. heck Lavine and DeRozan are bad fit, if they didnt see enough evidence in Bulls!

But Kings arent the smartest organization, same as current clueless Bulls

Sacramento added Jonas for C depth,thats solid at least - but that team I cant see going far... a lot of misfits! I felt Sorry for Lavine that got traded there, but at least he is 45min drive from home,if nothing else.

The Kings are very flawed with a C who isn't a shot blocker and Demar who does Demar things. That said, they really should have offered us one of the 1sts they got for Ball.

[Stratmaster]

Kings are 4-3 since Lavine got there and have won 3 of their last 4. He struggled with his shooting but the last 2 games he has scored 55 points and has 17 assists. Last game he had 32 points, 10 assists and 3 steals.

Maybe they know how to use him better than Billy did?

[greenwing]

Kings are 4-3 since Lavine got there and have won 3 of their last 4. He struggled with his shooting but the last 2 games he has scored 55 points and has 17 assists. Last game he had 32 points, 10 assists and 3 steals.

Maybe they know how to use him better than Billy did?

I haven't watched his play in Sacramento but my guess is they are having him play more point duties since they traded away Fox and didn't have a real replacement at the 1. I wanted the Bulls to have him play point last season since we didn't have a true point guard on the roster and Phoenix was having Devin Booker due that with some success. Also, that would have helped spread the floor enabling the Bulls to utilize DeRozan as more of a slasher instead of having him play iso ball. For Zach to have 10 assists in a game I'm guessing that's exactly what they've been doing in Sacramento.

[Jvaughn]

Kings are 4-3 since Lavine got there and have won 3 of their last 4. He struggled with his shooting but the last 2 games he has scored 55 points and has 17 assists. Last game he had 32 points, 10 assists and 3 steals.

Maybe they know how to use him better than Billy did?

I haven't watched his play in Sacramento but my guess is they are having him play more point duties since they traded away Fox and didn't have a real replacement at the 1. I wanted the Bulls to have him play point last season since we didn't have a true point guard on the roster and Phoenix was having Devin Booker due that with some success. Also, that would have helped spread the floor enabling the Bulls to utilize DeRozan as more of a slasher instead of having him play iso ball. For Zach to have 10 assists in a game I'm guessing that's exactly what they've been doing in Sacramento.

I'm actually surprised they didn't want Tre. Monk is a good player, but he's definitely not a PG on a contending team. Tre might have been a decent stop gap.

[kodo]

Kings are 4-3 since Lavine got there and have won 3 of their last 4. He struggled with his shooting but the last 2 games he has scored 55 points and has 17 assists. Last game he had 32 points, 10 assists and 3 steals.

Maybe they know how to use him better than Billy did?

Not at the moment IMO, it looks like he has to be the "PG" because of a lack of other options. It certainly won't be Demar, won't be Keegan Murray, obviously, and Sabonis already passes a ton for the center position. It's basically Lavine + Monk being PGs and both guys are better scorers.

Last 2 games he's averaged 8.5 assists, and he's really not a PG as we all know. You want Lavine not dribbling around trying to create but cleanly catching & shooting or cutting & dunking.

I think because of the mid season trade it's going to be an awkward fit, and as usual Lavine tries to do the best he can just like he's done in Chicago for years since we never acquired a great playmaker other than a half season of lonzo and half season of Giddey, in which both time periods Lavine has looked fantastic.

[pipfan]

I think this deal set us up better for the future. We will drop in the standings a bit, and have control of our picks now (plus the Port pick)
We now have 2 nice sized expiring deals for next year, in case a star becomes available. With plenty of deals and a few solid vet role playing pieces, we should have an interesting summer

If nothing else we role into the summer of 2026 with Matas, Smith, a top 8 pick this year and a top 6 pick next year, plus PWill (he's better than he looks now-not much but better), maybe Giddy (I REALLY hope we don't overpay him), hopefully Ayo on a reasonable deal and a ton of cap space

[CROBulls]

I think this deal set us up better for the future. We will drop in the standings a bit, and have control of our picks now (plus the Port pick)
We now have 2 nice sized expiring deals for next year, in case a star becomes available. With plenty of deals and a few solid vet role playing pieces, we should have an interesting summer

If nothing else we role into the summer of 2026 with Matas, Smith, a top 8 pick this year and a top 6 pick next year, plus PWill (he's better than he looks now-not much but better), maybe Giddy (I REALLY hope we don't overpay him), hopefully Ayo on a reasonable deal and a ton of cap space

And who do you think is gonna sign for this poverty franchise? If either Matas, top 8 pick from this draft or that top 6 pick next year are not All-Star calibre players? In FA you can only sign overpaid role players or Jimmy Butler/Paul George looking guys looking for last big contract.

New CBA is made to get stars through either full trades or sign and trades. Not through free agency cap space.

[dougthonus]

Kings are 4-3 since Lavine got there and have won 3 of their last 4. He struggled with his shooting but the last 2 games he has scored 55 points and has 17 assists. Last game he had 32 points, 10 assists and 3 steals.

Maybe they know how to use him better than Billy did?

If you projected these 6 games out to a season, it would be worse than any season he ever had under Donovan and the worst he's had since the half season he came back from the ACL injury. It's even worse than last year's season where he was awful and played hurt all year. In terms of teams over that 3-3 stretch, they played the Magic (L), Blazers (L), Pelicans 3x (2W, 1L), Mavs (W). I'd imagine they were heavy favorites against the Pelicans in all 3 games, favored against the Magic and Blazers, and maybe a toss up against the Mavs (without Doncic or AD), maybe even favored in all 6 games.

If you want to ignore all the bad games and only count the last two good games, I'm sure you could find plenty of similar good game stretches under Donovan that where he had back to back amazing games. This isn't to say he won't ultimately do much better in Sacramento, but ignoring the bad games and only counting the good ones in a total sample size of 7 games then attributing the performance in the two good games to the head coach instead of all of this to random variance seems like a pretty poor argument to me.

Not to say he won't ultimately do better in Sacramento, or even that Sacramento might be better at using him, but he's not playing better now, and if he does play better over the rest of the season, there are many factors at play in the switch of teams that could cause the difference such as Zach simply being motivated to be somewhere else, having a big man that can actually finish off his assists, playing on a team that collectively has much more offensive fire power, etc...

[Ice Man]

For Strat, Billy causes floods, locusts, and earthquakes. So, sure, it's his fault that Zach is now playing better after leaving the Bulls, even though Zach isn't now playing better after leaving the Bulls.

But to give the man his due, he was correct last year in keeping the faith on Zach, who is having quite a good season, if truth be told.

[Stratmaster]

Kings are 4-3 since Lavine got there and have won 3 of their last 4. He struggled with his shooting but the last 2 games he has scored 55 points and has 17 assists. Last game he had 32 points, 10 assists and 3 steals.

Maybe they know how to use him better than Billy did?

If you projected these 6 games out to a season, it would be worse than any season he ever had under Donovan and the worst he's had since the half season he came back from the ACL injury. It's even worse than last year's season where he was awful and played hurt all year. In terms of teams over that 3-3 stretch, they played the Magic (L), Blazers (L), Pelicans 3x (2W, 1L), Mavs (W). I'd imagine they were heavy favorites against the Pelicans in all 3 games, favored against the Magic and Blazers, and maybe a toss up against the Mavs (without Doncic or AD), maybe even favored in all 6 games.

If you want to ignore all the bad games and only count the last two good games, I'm sure you could find plenty of similar good game stretches under Donovan that where he had back to back amazing games. This isn't to say he won't ultimately do much better in Sacramento, but ignoring the bad games and only counting the good ones in a total sample size of 7 games then attributing the performance in the two good games to the head coach instead of all of this to random variance seems like a pretty poor argument to me.

Not to say he won't ultimately do better in Sacramento, or even that Sacramento might be better at using him, but he's not playing better now, and if he does play better over the rest of the season, there are many factors at play in the switch of teams that could cause the difference such as Zach simply being motivated to be somewhere else, having a big man that can actually finish off his assists, playing on a team that collectively has much more offensive fire power, etc...

Ignore his bad games? Did you even read what I said? The first comment about his individual play was "he has struggled with his shooting, but the last 2 games..."

Do you think his career TS% and numbers point to the first few games being where he will settle in, or the last two?

Yes, there are many factors at play when changing teams. Especially after sitting out 5 games. Maybe some rust? Maybe acclamating to a slightly different role on the new team? Maybe getting used to your new teammates. Where they like to get the ball on the floor and when. New arrangements in your personal life? The coach figuring out how to slot you into the rotations properly?

Are you really making the case that "Zach is more motivated" and that somehow offsets all those other factors?

The post I made was the first time I even looked to see how Lavine has been doing. I know you love Billy but does he pay you to defend him? It really is interesting how after all the seasons he has been here, and his complete failure to make progress of any sort, there is a group of diehard fans and media who still talk about him being a great coach. He's the stereotype meathead, big talking, gum chewing jock. I guess there are a lot of Chicago media who eat that **** up. DITKA!! Lol.

He has been a complete failure.

[dougthonus]

Ignore his bad games? Did you even read what I said? The first comment about his individual play was "he has struggled with his shooting, but the last 2 games..."

Do you think his career TS% and numbers point to the first few games being where he will settle in, or the last two?

I would guess he will be about the same player he was in Sacramento, and I described any changes to likely be due to variance or any number of possible factors and didn't make any firm judgments at all.

You said he's playing better (but he's not) and its due to the coach (which ignoring the fact your conclusion was already false, there's no evidence of).

Yes, there are many factors at play when changing teams. Especially after sitting out 5 games. Maybe some rust? Maybe acclamating to a slightly different role on the new team? Maybe getting used to your new teammates. Where they like to get the ball on the floor and when. New arrangements in your personal life? The coach figuring out how to slot you into the rotations properly?

Are you really making the case that "Zach is more motivated" and that somehow offsets all those other factors?

No, I'm not making any case. I'm rejecting your claim that Zach is playing better because of coaching. I have made no claim except to point out that factually he is not playing better and is in fact playing worse, and there are many reasons as to why the difference could occur (including effectively no reason whatsoever because its too short a time period), and that it shouldn't be evaluated at all.

The post I made was the first time I even looked to see how Lavine has been doing. I know you love Billy but does he pay you to defend him? It really is interesting how after all the seasons he has been here, and his complete failure to make progress of any sort, there is a group of diehard fans and media who still talk about him being a great coach. He's the stereotype meathead, big talking, gum chewing jock. I guess there are a lot of Chicago media who eat that **** up. DITKA!! Lol.

He has been a complete failure.

I don't love Billy, I just don't irrationally hate Billy. If behaved in the same way as you, I'd have said "Look how great a coach Billy Donovan is, Zach is playing worse in Sacramento!" which would be the "love" version of the argument you just made. I think that would be just as silly a thing to say (though at least it would factually track with Zach's play unlike what you said).

[sco]

I think Zach is Zach if he is on our team or another. He is better than anyone on our team today, but the issue is/was that he wasn't good enough to be a #1 option on a contending team, so it was time to start our next search for "that guy". I do think he can be the #2 option on a contending team.

[NecessaryEvil]

I really wanted to see him with the Warriors or Nuggets

Anybody know what’s up with the Portland pick nowadays?