Shams: Lonzo for Okoro

[GoBlue72391]

Good think we didn't draft him with a high lottery pick then.

No we just traded for a bad player. But hey if that's the type you want you are getting your wish.

I mean, he's a good defender and above league average efficiency scorer, including being a competent 3 point shooter. How on earth is that a "bad" player?

You could theoretically say the same about Pat. How on earth is Pat a "bad" player?

[League Circles]

No we just traded for a bad player. But hey if that's the type you want you are getting your wish.

I mean, he's a good defender and above league average efficiency scorer, including being a competent 3 point shooter. How on earth is that a "bad" player?

You could theoretically say the same about Pat. How on earth is Pat a "bad" player?

And someone could answer "because he shot WAY below league average scoring efficiency".

Can't say that about Okoro. Good efficiency 4 years straight. If Patrick can revert back to decent overall efficiency especially from 3 point range, I probably won't call him a "bad" player.

[yifsuibfe1]

https://bsky.app/profile/keithsmithnba.bsky.social/post/3lu2lf6qfu22r

Due to an injury protection clause in Lonzo Ball's contact, the Chicago Bulls had to use a portion of their TPE for Zach LaVine to acquire Isaac Okoro.

The Cleveland Cavaliers created a full TPE of $11M for Isaac Okoro on the outgoing salary side.

[drosestruts]

https://bsky.app/profile/keithsmithnba.bsky.social/post/3lu2lf6qfu22r

Due to an injury protection clause in Lonzo Ball's contact, the Chicago Bulls had to use a portion of their TPE for Zach LaVine to acquire Isaac Okoro.

The Cleveland Cavaliers created a full TPE of $11M for Isaac Okoro on the outgoing salary side.

Does this mean we re-set the clock on complaining about never using our trade exceptions?

[sco]

Pretty much every argument for why Okoro is a bad trade could be applied to LA Caruso when we got him. A good defender, can't score (6 ppg), will not develop into a star, excellent impact metrics. Caruso was actually far worse on offense (54% TS) compared to Okoro (59% TS). Caruso was not a star defender when we got him didn't make any all-defensive teams.

It's a very similar move to outbidding LAL for AC, and cap adjusted it's about the same dollar amount. Just because you make the same bet twice doesn't mean we'll get the same results, but the methodology is the same.

Alex Caruso was one of the best defensive guards in his last year in LA and you could make the argument he was one of the best defenders overall. He wasnt going to make an All Defensive team playing 15-20 mpg in LA. Its why he didn't make the team this year with OKC playing 20 MPG. Not sure why you need to knock Caruso to prop up Okoro.

I will say this about both Caruso and Ball, neither guy is durable enough to play more than around 20MPG and expect to remain healthy for the season. Not sure Okoro will be much different, but there's a decent chance he can be a 30mpg very good defender, and IMO, 10 more minutes of great defense has value.

[DASMACKDOWN]

https://bsky.app/profile/keithsmithnba.bsky.social/post/3lu2lf6qfu22r

Due to an injury protection clause in Lonzo Ball's contact, the Chicago Bulls had to use a portion of their TPE for Zach LaVine to acquire Isaac Okoro.

The Cleveland Cavaliers created a full TPE of $11M for Isaac Okoro on the outgoing salary side.

Does this mean we re-set the clock on complaining about never using our trade exceptions?

Yes and someone has already talked about it.

Basically its just click bait now and people just want to complain about every single thing with this front office. People make it sound like we have ever used our TPE over the years. I bet they cant find one.

I've been here long enough to know, we did nothing with Kyle Korver TPE. Did nothing with Luol Deng TPE. We did nothing with Lonzo Ball's injury exemption. And I knew we would do nothing with Zach's TPE. So this is nothing new. No reason to try and drum up more hate on the matter.

[drosestruts]

While not a stat sheet stuffer or a guy you'll find awesome highlight reels of on Youtube, Okoro is a +/- darling.

2024-25: +14 when on the court
2023-24: +3.6 when on the court
2022-23: +6.1 when on the court
2021-22: +3.6 on the court
2020-21: -9 (so not every year eh?)

in years 2-5 his team was always better with him on the floor than off.

Hopeful he can bring a similar impact here. I don't think he's going to magically turn into a high-volume sniper or something.

But if he can keep this same trend of winning his minutes on the court, that will be a plus to me.

[Bulliever2020]

I predict Okoro will be next season's Huerter. A guy who people don't expect much from but due to being given more opportunity and playing in a system that they fit very well in will become much more productive. I also expect him to put in a ton of work this summer and come into this year with a chip on his shoulder ready to show what he can do in a new environment.

[dougthonus]

While not a stat sheet stuffer or a guy you'll find awesome highlight reels of on Youtube, Okoro is a +/- darling.

2024-25: +14 when on the court
2023-24: +3.6 when on the court
2022-23: +6.1 when on the court
2021-22: +3.6 on the court
2020-21: -9 (so not every year eh?)

in years 2-5 his team was always better with him on the floor than off.

Hopeful he can bring a similar impact here. I don't think he's going to magically turn into a high-volume sniper or something.

But if he can keep this same trend of winning his minutes on the court, that will be a plus to me.

Sort of interesting that you would describe Caruso in this way quite a bit too. Great defender, high +/- guy, but not much on the offensive end. I don't think Okoro is quite Caruso on defense and likely not as much of a team defensive orchestrator, but a lot of the same traits of high value that isn't as obvious seem like they might be there.

His offense will probably look more interesting next to Giddey in a super uptempo system as well, as he's a really good finisher / transition player.

[Jcool0]

While not a stat sheet stuffer or a guy you'll find awesome highlight reels of on Youtube, Okoro is a +/- darling.

2024-25: +14 when on the court
2023-24: +3.6 when on the court
2022-23: +6.1 when on the court
2021-22: +3.6 on the court
2020-21: -9 (so not every year eh?)

in years 2-5 his team was always better with him on the floor than off.

Hopeful he can bring a similar impact here. I don't think he's going to magically turn into a high-volume sniper or something.

But if he can keep this same trend of winning his minutes on the court, that will be a plus to me.

FWIW 10 players on Cleveland with over 1000 minutes have a plus on court rating last season, with the lowest being Max Strus at +8.9. Bulls are a worse team i don't know if that impact is going to translate. Bulls had 2 positive on court players last year play 1000+ minutes, LaVine at +1 and Phillips at +1.9. Lonzo Ball was a +6.5 in 777 minutes. Kevin Huerter was a +9.5 in 26 games. Zach Collins was +4.4 in 26 games. Surprising Tre Jones had a -4.9 in his 18 games.

[dougthonus]

While not a stat sheet stuffer or a guy you'll find awesome highlight reels of on Youtube, Okoro is a +/- darling.

2024-25: +14 when on the court
2023-24: +3.6 when on the court
2022-23: +6.1 when on the court
2021-22: +3.6 on the court
2020-21: -9 (so not every year eh?)

in years 2-5 his team was always better with him on the floor than off.

Hopeful he can bring a similar impact here. I don't think he's going to magically turn into a high-volume sniper or something.

But if he can keep this same trend of winning his minutes on the court, that will be a plus to me.

FWIW 10 players on Cleveland with over 1000 minutes have a plus on court rating last season, with the lowest being Max Strus at +8.9. Bulls are a worse team i don't know if that impact is going to translate. Bulls had 2 positive on court players last year play 1000+ minutes, LaVine at +1 and Phillips at +1.9. Lonzo Ball was a +6.5 in 777 minutes. Kevin Huerter was a +9.5 in 26 games. Zach Collins was +4.4 in 26 games. Surprising Tre Jones had a -4.9 in his 18 games.

Not that I'm a believer in +/- as a huge metric, but his net +/- is also positive which should filter out some of the noise of just being on a good team. Especially since he played less than half the minutes which would work against him last year.

[Jcool0]

While not a stat sheet stuffer or a guy you'll find awesome highlight reels of on Youtube, Okoro is a +/- darling.

2024-25: +14 when on the court
2023-24: +3.6 when on the court
2022-23: +6.1 when on the court
2021-22: +3.6 on the court
2020-21: -9 (so not every year eh?)

in years 2-5 his team was always better with him on the floor than off.

Hopeful he can bring a similar impact here. I don't think he's going to magically turn into a high-volume sniper or something.

But if he can keep this same trend of winning his minutes on the court, that will be a plus to me.

FWIW 10 players on Cleveland with over 1000 minutes have a plus on court rating last season, with the lowest being Max Strus at +8.9. Bulls are a worse team i don't know if that impact is going to translate. Bulls had 2 positive on court players last year play 1000+ minutes, LaVine at +1 and Phillips at +1.9. Lonzo Ball was a +6.5 in 777 minutes. Kevin Huerter was a +9.5 in 26 games. Zach Collins was +4.4 in 26 games. Surprising Tre Jones had a -4.9 in his 18 games.

Not that I'm a believer in +/- as a huge metric, but his net +/- is also positive which should filter out some of the noise of just being on a good team. Especially since he played less than half the minutes which would work against him last year.

Not saying he is going to be a big negative for Chicago. But if he was really as valuable as those numbers suggest he wouldn't of been a player with no market this offseason. Someone like Alex Caruso can put up what are seemingly low end stats... But can also be the different for the right team between winning it all or not. That is not what the Bulls are getting in Okoro.

[Chi town]

Okoro’s injuries have def hurt him. He was shooting 50% from 3 on low volume before his injury last year. If he can stay healthy he will have an impact.

Everyone will have to earn their mins this year and we have so much depth (Terry Phillips aren’t good but they are depth) and versatility that guards and wings will be competing for mins as Billy loves his 3 guard lineups.

[dougthonus]

Not saying he is going to be a big negative for Chicago. But if he was really as valuable as those numbers suggest he wouldn't of been a player with no market this offseason. Someone like Alex Caruso can put up what are seemingly low end stats... But can also be the different for the right team between winning it all or not. That is not what the Bulls are getting in Okoro.

That's probably true.

However, the Lakers declined to match our offer on Caruso, or even give him less money (he was willing to stay there for less than us, I believe he was quoted as saying the Lakers were only offering him half what we were). So at the time we got Caruso, the same statement could have been made about him. This isn't to say we will definitely catch lightening in a bottle with a defensive guy a second time around though, just that the situation was pretty similar when we got AC.

[sco]

FWIW 10 players on Cleveland with over 1000 minutes have a plus on court rating last season, with the lowest being Max Strus at +8.9. Bulls are a worse team i don't know if that impact is going to translate. Bulls had 2 positive on court players last year play 1000+ minutes, LaVine at +1 and Phillips at +1.9. Lonzo Ball was a +6.5 in 777 minutes. Kevin Huerter was a +9.5 in 26 games. Zach Collins was +4.4 in 26 games. Surprising Tre Jones had a -4.9 in his 18 games.

Not that I'm a believer in +/- as a huge metric, but his net +/- is also positive which should filter out some of the noise of just being on a good team. Especially since he played less than half the minutes which would work against him last year.

Not saying he is going to be a big negative for Chicago. But if he was really as valuable as those numbers suggest he wouldn't of been a player with no market this offseason. Someone like Alex Caruso can put up what are seemingly low end stats... But can also be the different for the right team between winning it all or not. That is not what the Bulls are getting in Okoro.

Okoro’s injuries have def hurt him. He was shooting 50% from 3 on low volume before his injury last year. If he can stay healthy he will have an impact.

Everyone will have to earn their mins this year and we have so much depth (Terry Phillips aren’t good but they are depth) and versatility that guards and wings will be competing for mins as Billy loves his 3 guard lineups.

I think his play last year was jointly due to injuries (which seem to be statistically more common in good defenders) and the fact that CLE traded for Hunter who played a similar role.

I think our success next season will be heavily tied to our rotation. Adding a good POA defender (or two) to the mix, coupled with adding rim protection to the starting lineup ( :prayer: ) will give our new core their best chance to succeed on both ends. I'm not saying that best case we're a 50 win team, but I could see a 10 win difference by optimizing our rotation with a better balance.

[drosestruts]

I don't really get the "no market" comments

Okoro was traded on June 28th.

The finals ended June 22nd

Free Agency started June 30th

The draft was June 25th


This isn't some guy who was shopped for months and months and months who Cleveland couldn't unload.

I'm also not sure what relevance comments like that have. Do they matter? You win games on the court, Okroo wins his minutes on the court.

Hopefully, that continues here.

[Jcool0]

Not that I'm a believer in +/- as a huge metric, but his net +/- is also positive which should filter out some of the noise of just being on a good team. Especially since he played less than half the minutes which would work against him last year.

Not saying he is going to be a big negative for Chicago. But if he was really as valuable as those numbers suggest he wouldn't of been a player with no market this offseason. Someone like Alex Caruso can put up what are seemingly low end stats... But can also be the different for the right team between winning it all or not. That is not what the Bulls are getting in Okoro.

Okoro’s injuries have def hurt him. He was shooting 50% from 3 on low volume before his injury last year. If he can stay healthy he will have an impact.

Everyone will have to earn their mins this year and we have so much depth (Terry Phillips aren’t good but they are depth) and versatility that guards and wings will be competing for mins as Billy loves his 3 guard lineups.

I think his play last year was jointly due to injuries (which seem to be statistically more common in good defenders) and the fact that CLE traded for Hunter who played a similar role.

I think our success next season will be heavily tied to our rotation. Adding a good POA defender (or two) to the mix, coupled with adding rim protection to the starting lineup ( :prayer: ) will give our new core their best chance to succeed on both ends. I'm not saying that best case we're a 50 win team, but I could see a 10 win difference by optimizing our rotation with a better balance.

Not sure what him being hurt does when he was shooting 2.3 3PA in 2023, 3.1 3PA per game in 2024 and 2.7 3PA per game last year. Him shooting better isnt going to do much when the volume is so low. FWIW i don't think he is a good defender. Positive one sure. But again this isn't a Caruso situation.

[Jcool0]

I don't really get the "no market" comments

Okoro was traded on June 28th.

The finals ended June 22nd

Free Agency started June 30th

The draft was June 25th


This isn't some guy who was shopped for months and months and months who Cleveland couldn't unload.

I'm also not sure what relevance comments like that have. Do they matter? You win games on the court, Okroo wins his minutes on the court.

Hopefully, that continues here.

Chris Fedor: From everything that I'm told they're having a hard time finding anybody that has legitimate interest in Isaac Okoro, unless Isaac also comes with some kind of sweetener from the Cavs. Some kinds of assets attached to his contract because I think there are teams out there that are looking at Isaac and they're saying like ‘We'd be doing you a favor by taking on his contract, so make it worth our time to do that, make it worthwhile for us to do that. Give us future second round picks, go find a first round pick somehow that you can trade to us along with Isaac Okoro then we'll help you out.’

[Jcool0]

Not saying he is going to be a big negative for Chicago. But if he was really as valuable as those numbers suggest he wouldn't of been a player with no market this offseason. Someone like Alex Caruso can put up what are seemingly low end stats... But can also be the different for the right team between winning it all or not. That is not what the Bulls are getting in Okoro.

That's probably true.

However, the Lakers declined to match our offer on Caruso, or even give him less money (he was willing to stay there for less than us, I believe he was quoted as saying the Lakers were only offering him half what we were). So at the time we got Caruso, the same statement could have been made about him. This isn't to say we will definitely catch lightening in a bottle with a defensive guy a second time around though, just that the situation was pretty similar when we got AC.

Lakers are a unique team always looking for star players and will undervalue the guys that are actually helping to win titles in an attempt to keep everything open to get that star guy.

[League Circles]

I don't really get the "no market" comments

Okoro was traded on June 28th.

The finals ended June 22nd

Free Agency started June 30th

The draft was June 25th


This isn't some guy who was shopped for months and months and months who Cleveland couldn't unload.

I'm also not sure what relevance comments like that have. Do they matter? You win games on the court, Okroo wins his minutes on the court.

Hopefully, that continues here.

Yeah, this was clearly a targeted, desired move by the Bulls and there's no reason to think Okoro was unwanted.

Lonzo Ball is quite a good player when he plays. It's a nice one for one trade. Bulls get the younger, more durable, better finishing Okoro, while Cleveland gets the better play maker, somewhat better defender (excellent vs just good I guess for Okoro?), less durable, older guy. Both have intriguing but unreliable/unproven three point shooting histories. The Bulls obviously extended Ball with an eye on trading him, which was a nice move. I think Okoro is the ideal realistic archetype to complement Giddey and Coby. I say realistic because of course you'd want the guy to shoot like Steph Curry but I'm talking archetype for an obtainable non-star. Okoro is nearly exactly what I wanted at the 2 spot this summer. Hopefully he can guard the 1-3 positions as needed. It's one of the first signs that AK might have some sense of chemistry needs after all. That might have been his biggest general weakness (as opposed to specific bad moves like the Vuc trade) so far.