2018 Draft Thread Lucky #7

[League Circles]

It's dead clear the Bulls are losing because Dunn, LaVine and Markkanen are not playing. And the NBA is dictating what the Bulls can and can't do. Otherwise, Lopez and Holiday would be playing zero minutes. You have no point.

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Nah dude just admit you were wromg. You said they would not let them play token minutes and you faceplanted that prediction. You said they would not let us play garbage lineups to close and you were wrong about that too. I'm not gonna let you walk away from this after you talked so righteously like you knew exactly what would happen and were WRONG. Bulls are doing exactly what they want minus some token PT for Holiday.

Also have you even been paying attention to games? LaVine has been God awful, Markkanen not much better and Dunn OK, but inconsistent. Those three have been a major disappointment as a core post all-star break.

Do you know how corny it is to beg someone to admit you were right about something that you aren't right about? If you're right enough, you'll never need to do that.

Those 3 players give Chicago a better chance to win a game than their replacements. The NBA forced Chicago to play Holiday or Lopez. None of this is subjective. Move on.

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I hate to derail here, but I was under the impression that the technical gripe from the league was not dressing Lopez/Holiday, as opposed to not playing them? No?

[thebizkit]

Also have you even been paying attention to games? LaVine has been God awful, Markkanen not much better and Dunn OK, but inconsistent. Those three have been a major disappointment as a core post all-star break.

I think a lot of people either ignore this, or just view it as a non factor, but a lot of fan's might be too high on this core. Is Dunn really an NBA caliber starter? LaVine is struggling in this offense and Markkanen is basically a streak player at this point. I'm not sold that this core is just bad, I'm more sold on that Hoibergs offense is not going to work for this group of players, but Fred has the bench playing hard which the FO might think highly of.

[sh0ck]

Nah dude just admit you were wromg. You said they would not let them play token minutes and you faceplanted that prediction. You said they would not let us play garbage lineups to close and you were wrong about that too. I'm not gonna let you walk away from this after you talked so righteously like you knew exactly what would happen and were WRONG. Bulls are doing exactly what they want minus some token PT for Holiday.

Also have you even been paying attention to games? LaVine has been God awful, Markkanen not much better and Dunn OK, but inconsistent. Those three have been a major disappointment as a core post all-star break.

Do you know how corny it is to beg someone to admit you were right about something that you aren't right about? If you're right enough, you'll never need to do that.

Those 3 players give Chicago a better chance to win a game than their replacements. The NBA forced Chicago to play Holiday or Lopez. None of this is subjective. Move on.

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I hate to derail here, but I was under the impression that the technical gripe from the league was not dressing Lopez/Holiday, as opposed to not playing them? No?

I think the issue is that the Bulls sat two starters on the road. You're able to sit whoever at home (under the rest rules).

It's a weird distinction, but they're using rules that already were in the guidelines of the recent CBA (that were intended for good teams resting guys on National games like the Spurs).

[TheSuzerain]

I think he was talking about JJJ

I mean TT as a frosh is basically JJJ as a frosh with much better rebounding and less time on the bench.

Tyrus Thomas measurements: 6'8" with 7'3" wingspan, 217lbs

Jaren Jackson Jr. measurements: 6'11" with 7'4" wingspan, 240lbs (according to DraftExpress)

Jackson is a size bigger, and I think that matters. It suggests he will grow into being able to defend centers.

I also think the way we look at athleticism for bigs is a bit more refined than it was then, at least on these boards. I feel like a few years back, we looked at athleticism more in terms of running and jumping ability and probably didn't consider lateral quickness as much as we might have, especially for big men. Tyrus clearly was more of a jumper than Jackson is, but I don't think he was nearly has quick of foot in a way that translates to playing either man or help defense. Plus, Jackson was a known commodity coming out of high school who has been scouted extensively for a while. Tyrus Thomas came out of nowhere to become a high lottery pick based on his incredible athleticism (again, mostly vertical) and his great play in his tournament run, but we didn't have as much data and experience with him.

I don't recall Tyrus Thomas lateral quickness ever being much of an issue.

Ultimately Tyrus Thomas was a highly talented player. Who checked a lot of the same boxes as Bagley and JJJ.

He ultimately failed due in large part to intangibles.

[Red Larrivee]

I hate to derail here, but I was under the impression that the technical gripe from the league was not dressing Lopez/Holiday, as opposed to not playing them? No?

The league tried compromising. They're arguing that you can't suddenly sit healthy who were playing big roles for you. One of them has to play.

[ATRAIN53]

Good read here on Trae and there a Woj interview with him i plan to check out on ride home-

https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/20/17141004/trae-young-michael-porter-jr-draft-stock

Young is smaller than guys like Steph and McCollum, and he could use more time in school to work on his body.

He’ll need to get stronger, but there’s a good chance he’ll develop into a high-level starting point guard by the time his rookie contract is up, which is about the same age he would have been had he had stayed four years in school.

That's why One and Done sucks. We could have 1-2 more years of this kid developing at Oklahoma and pick apart his game and if we should draft him. Now it's gonna be a lottery team stuck trying to develop a kid who needs time.

Kemba Walker is probably the ceiling for this kid and Kemba stayed at UCON for 3 years. It still took him a few years to acclimate to the NBA. Trae is gonna need time. He may have talent but this is a mans league, he still looks like a boy.

I say pass on him and pick him up in 2021 when he's a FA and someone else has developed him. He's not gonna be instant impact.

[R3AL1TY]

That Brooklyn pick is just moving up and down at #4 and #7. Need either them or the Kings to finish with a better record for the Bulls' pick to move up to #7. The #7 pick would make Bagley, JJJ, and Bamba more attainable.

[TheSuzerain]

Good read here on Trae and there a Woj interview with him i plan to check out on ride home-

https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/20/17141004/trae-young-michael-porter-jr-draft-stock

Young is smaller than guys like Steph and McCollum, and he could use more time in school to work on his body.

He’ll need to get stronger, but there’s a good chance he’ll develop into a high-level starting point guard by the time his rookie contract is up, which is about the same age he would have been had he had stayed four years in school.

That's why One and Done sucks. We could have 1-2 more years of this kid developing at Oklahoma and pick apart his game and if we should draft him. Now it's gonna be a lottery team stuck trying to develop a kid who needs time.

Kemba Walker is probably the ceiling for this kid and Kemba stayed at UCON for 3 years. It still took him a few years to acclimate to the NBA. Trae is gonna need time. He may have talent but this is a mans league, he still looks like a boy.

I say pass on him and pick him up in 2021 when he's a FA and someone else has developed him. He's not gonna be instant impact.

Great idea.

Let's just sign Ayton, Young, and Doncic in 2021!

We solved it!

[WindyCityBorn]

It's dead clear the Bulls are losing because Dunn, LaVine and Markkanen are not playing. And the NBA is dictating what the Bulls can and can't do. Otherwise, Lopez and Holiday would be playing zero minutes. You have no point.

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Nah dude just admit you were wromg. You said they would not let them play token minutes and you faceplanted that prediction. You said they would not let us play garbage lineups to close and you were wrong about that too. I'm not gonna let you walk away from this after you talked so righteously like you knew exactly what would happen and were WRONG. Bulls are doing exactly what they want minus some token PT for Holiday.

Also have you even been paying attention to games? LaVine has been God awful, Markkanen not much better and Dunn OK, but inconsistent. Those three have been a major disappointment as a core post all-star break.

Do you know how corny it is to beg someone to admit you were right about something that you aren't right about? If you're right enough, you'll never need to do that.

Those 3 players give Chicago a better chance to win a game than their replacements. The NBA forced Chicago to play Holiday or Lopez. None of this is subjective. Move on.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Man you really struggle with admitting you were WRONG. It's not that they are playing. You said they would play normal minutes. Maybe don't preach next time if you can't handle the getting called out in the aftermath. I would never normally bring something like this up and drive it home, but you absolutely deserve it.

[Red Larrivee]

Exactly, and frankly there are plenty of them. Love, Lowry, Derozan, Butler, Aldridge, Horford, Beal, Dragic, Klay, etc are all NBA all stars who didn't have that freak ceiling.

To me it's not about floor or ceiling, it's about who projects to most likely be the best player. That involves looking at floors and ceilings and making a subjective decision. I think Carter is very likely to be an above average starting NBA C, which is extremely valuable.

And the MVP of this season is going to be James Harden, who was regarded for his high floor as a prospect. Does Wendell Carter have a likely star ceiling? No. But he's young and skilled enough that he could become an all-star one day.

[League Circles]

I hate to derail here, but I was under the impression that the technical gripe from the league was not dressing Lopez/Holiday, as opposed to not playing them? No?

The league tried compromising. They're arguing that you can't suddenly sit healthy who were playing big roles for you. One of them has to play.

OK, you know I agree with you on most things, but IMO the Bulls could have forced the issue, kept them on the bench and been fine.

[sh0ck]

I mean TT as a frosh is basically JJJ as a frosh with much better rebounding and less time on the bench.

Tyrus Thomas measurements: 6'8" with 7'3" wingspan, 217lbs

Jaren Jackson Jr. measurements: 6'11" with 7'4" wingspan, 240lbs (according to DraftExpress)

Jackson is a size bigger, and I think that matters. It suggests he will grow into being able to defend centers.

I also think the way we look at athleticism for bigs is a bit more refined than it was then, at least on these boards. I feel like a few years back, we looked at athleticism more in terms of running and jumping ability and probably didn't consider lateral quickness as much as we might have, especially for big men. Tyrus clearly was more of a jumper than Jackson is, but I don't think he was nearly has quick of foot in a way that translates to playing either man or help defense. Plus, Jackson was a known commodity coming out of high school who has been scouted extensively for a while. Tyrus Thomas came out of nowhere to become a high lottery pick based on his incredible athleticism (again, mostly vertical) and his great play in his tournament run, but we didn't have as much data and experience with him.

I don't recall Tyrus Thomas lateral quickness ever being much of an issue.

Ultimately Tyrus Thomas was a highly talented player. Who checked a lot of the same boxes as Bagley and JJJ.

He ultimately failed due in large part to intangibles.

I'd like to add to this too, I think Tyrus Thomas would've been much better in this era of floor spacing, rim diving bigs, switching defenses, and emphasis on weak side help.

Skiles and Del Negro were probably not the best coaches to develop Tyrus either. But I understood what the Bulls were trying to do there.

[Red Larrivee]

Man you really struggle with admitting you were WRONG. It's not that they are playing. You said they would play normal minutes. Maybe don't preach next time if you can't handle the getting called out in the aftermath. I would never normally bring something like this up and drive it home, but you absolutely deserve it.

The league factually told the Bulls how to run their team and they are doing it. Chicago is factually losing more games lately because Markkanen, Dunn and LaVine are not playing.

You're begging for validation on a message board for your opinions, which still aren't right. It's **** stupid. I am wrong about something every day. You are wrong about something every day. Get off your pedestal and move on.

[WindyCityBorn]

I hate to derail here, but I was under the impression that the technical gripe from the league was not dressing Lopez/Holiday, as opposed to not playing them? No?

The league tried compromising. They're arguing that you can't suddenly sit healthy who were playing big roles for you. One of them has to play.

OK, you know I agree with you on most things, but IMO the Bulls could have forced the issue, kept them on the bench and been fine.

Nah he said he the Bulls would get punished if the Lopez/Holiday just played spot minutes. I specifically brought up the scenario that is happening right now of them playing like 10 to 12 minutes and kept getting met with Silver will strip our draft pick.

[Red Larrivee]

OK, you know I agree with you on most things, but IMO the Bulls could have forced the issue, kept them on the bench and been fine.

Sorry, I'm afraid to say anything because posters are keeping a digital record of what I'm right or wrong about. Gotta protect my internet reputation.

[WindyCityBorn]

Man you really struggle with admitting you were WRONG. It's not that they are playing. You said they would play normal minutes. Maybe don't preach next time if you can't handle the getting called out in the aftermath. I would never normally bring something like this up and drive it home, but you absolutely deserve it.

The league factually told the Bulls how to run their team and they are doing it. Chicago is factually losing more games lately because Markkanen, Dunn and LaVine are not playing.

You're begging for validation on a message board for your opinions, which still aren't right. It's **** stupid. I am wrong about something every day. You are wrong about something every day. Get off your pedestal and move on.

I don't care about my opinion being validated on here. Just that you were wrong after being so so smug about it and dismissive of dissenting opinions. Now we can move on.

[Red Larrivee]

Man you really struggle with admitting you were WRONG. It's not that they are playing. You said they would play normal minutes. Maybe don't preach next time if you can't handle the getting called out in the aftermath. I would never normally bring something like this up and drive it home, but you absolutely deserve it.

The league factually told the Bulls how to run their team and they are doing it. Chicago is factually losing more games lately because Markkanen, Dunn and LaVine are not playing.

You're begging for validation on a message board for your opinions, which still aren't right. It's **** stupid. I am wrong about something every day. You are wrong about something every day. Get off your pedestal and move on.

I don't care about my opinion being validated on here. Just that you were wrong after being so so smug about it and dismissive of dissenting opinions. Now we can move on.

This couldn't be any more contradicting.

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[kulaz3000]

All,

Let's keep this thread about the draft prospects, and not tanking, and how and why the Bulls are tanking etc. We have another thread for that: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1634159&start=1920

There is more than enough discussions about tanking around these boards of late and will continue, but when we come to specific threads like this, where people can analysis and discuss draft prospects, let's keep it that way without deviating back to the tank discussions all over again.

[thebizkit]

Can anyone give me a few examples of low stat output players like JJJ that actually developed into all-star caliber NBA players. I know KAT and Anthony Davis did not average a ton of points in the NCAA.

[kulaz3000]

https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/20/17141004/trae-young-michael-porter-jr-draft-stock

Young is smaller than guys like Steph and McCollum, and he could use more time in school to work on his body.

OF COURSE Young is smaller than those guys, as they are veterans in the league now. Give Young 5 plus years in the league, and I'm sure he will fill out just the same.

I think people forget one of the knocks with Curry himself was the fact that he was so slightly, not athletic, had crummy wingspan etc. But he worked on his game and his body, and now he is one of the best players in the league.

If you're going to compare two players, especially a college player, compare them to a player when they were actually in college as well, and what their body type was back then.

By the way, I don't want the Bulls to draft Young, I just feel he is getting unfairly criticized and he is the whipping boy in this draft, and because of this, I hope he kicks some major behind when he comes into the league.