OT: COVID-19 thread #4

[Dresden]

I wonder if getting COvid after you have been vaxed is like getting a booster shot of the vaccine. Your body should develop even more resistance to it based on that exposure.

I read an Israeli study that showed 7x's stronger antibodies from getting COVID over getting the vaccine.

Interesting- I had read the opposite- that the vaccine is actually more protective than having had Covid. Who knows. But having both- the vax and the disease, likely is better than just one or the other.

[Dresden]

From family and friends...

- Had a 42 yr old healthy friend get COVID and was knocked out for over two weeks. Could barely get out of bed. Lots taste for a couple months. Fully recovered.

- 75yr old mother in law had COVID and she was tired for a week. Lost taste and still has not gotten it back 9 months later.

- My parents in mid 60s both had COVID and were tired for a couple days. No issues since.

- Lots of healthy friends in 20s, 30s, and 40s have had COVID without any major symptoms or hospitalizations

- Know several healthy friends in 30's and 40's that have been vaccinated and then gotten COVID. Same symptoms but less harsh. One cousin had COVID, recovered, got vaccinated, got COVID again and the symptoms were worse the 2nd time

- Lots of vaccinated friends have said they had 24hr strong reactions on the 2nd shot. Fevers etc. Doctors have said this is good for antibodies

- Had a client go MIA last week... was with his nephew in the ER. Healthy 30 year old who got the vaccine and within 24 hours had a blood clot in his hit lungs go straight to his brain. He is now paralyzed from the neck on down. Doctors believe he will regain movement in the next month

- Had two family friends in their mid 70s get the vaccine and within 3 days had a blood clot in their lungs... both past.

I'm talking to lots of medical professionals working on the front lines. What is always communicated to me is what is killing people is COVID combined with pneuomonia. Mostly people don't treat COVID right away and then it grows/becomes pneomonia which takes their breathing.

The other thing always mentioned is obesity. I read 80% of the people hospitalized and deceased have been obese.

That's shocking to read about those people who died from the vaccine. I thought that complication was pretty rare. I'm glad I didn't know about that before my parents got it.

Not THAT surprised about the 80% number of obese cases making up all hospitalizations and deaths. That should be a wake up call to the large segment of our population that is overweight. That fact should be more widely publicized, if indeed you can reduce your odds of having serious complications from this virus so drastically by just losing weight.

[dougthonus]

I wonder if getting COvid after you have been vaxed is like getting a booster shot of the vaccine. Your body should develop even more resistance to it based on that exposure.

I read an Israeli study that showed 7x's stronger antibodies from getting COVID over getting the vaccine.

Link?

That runs contrary to what I have read in the past, here's just the first two links I found when searching:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article252185473.html
https://whyy.org/articles/what-immunity-did-having-covid-19-give-me-do-i-still-need-a-vaccine/

[HomoSapien]

One of my best friends is a doctor in Texas and the last few times I've spoken to him it's become clear that he's on the verge of a mental breakdown. He's just so exhausted and disheartened by everything. Last time I spoke to him (and this was maybe two weeks back) he did mention that about 99% of the people at his hospital were unvaccinated which I think makes it that much more frustrating for him.

[dougthonus]

That's shocking to read about those people who died from the vaccine. I thought that complication was pretty rare. I'm glad I didn't know about that before my parents got it.

Blood clots have only been linked to the J&J (of the 3 vaccines available in the US) and occur 7x per one million doses. There have been maybe 2 billion doses of the major vaccines given out, there is massively robust data on it. You can judge for yourself whether this information is unreliable, had a struck by lightning three times event happen to people he knows, the entire scientific community is lying about the vaccine, or whether there was just significant coincidence involved.

[Jimako10]

If you really want to know what the studies are saying, then going to the New England Journal of Medicine or the Lancet for accurate information/data is your best bet. It's a little heavy if you're not familiar with medical terminology but it's the 2 that I trust the most.

[Dresden]

That's shocking to read about those people who died from the vaccine. I thought that complication was pretty rare. I'm glad I didn't know about that before my parents got it.

Blood clots have only been linked to the J&J (of the 3 vaccines available in the US) and occur 7x per one million doses. There have been maybe 2 billion doses of the major vaccines given out, there is massively robust data on it. You can judge for yourself whether this information is unreliable, had a struck by lightning three times event happen to people he knows, the entire scientific community is lying about the vaccine, or whether there was just significant coincidence involved.

Doing some quick math, if 2b doses have been given, assuming 1/3 are J/J, that makes around 700m, so there should be about 4900 cases of clot formation. And of those, how many would be fatal? Maybe 1 in 10. So 490. And let's say 1/4 of those occur in the US.
That's about 125 in the whole US.

[Dresden]

One of my best friends is a doctor in Texas and the last few times I've spoken to him it's become clear that he's on the verge of a mental breakdown. He's just so exhausted and disheartened by everything. Last time I spoke to him (and this was maybe two weeks back) he did mention that about 99% of the people at his hospital were unvaccinated which I think makes it that much more frustrating for him.

There was a walkout of doctors and nurses at a Miami hospital the other day, trying to bring awareness to the unvaccinated of how much these health care workers are having to deal on account of their reluctance to get the jab. It's a tragedy that this has become so politicized, or that people have so much mistrust of the scientific community or govt, or that they are just ignorant about their chances of getting serious ill or dying from Covid.

I've heard of hospitals where 50% of the STAFF were unvaccinated. And these are people with a scientific background, working in close quarters with Covid (or at least some of them).

My heart goes out to all the medical workers who are having to deal with this, and have been for the last 18 months.

[Dresden]

I read that Delta is charging unvaccinated employees an extra $200/mo for health insurance now.

[dice]

florida has passed their prior record highs in hospitalizations. astonishing

"our hospitals are open for business" - ron desantis

[Chi town]

I wonder if getting COvid after you have been vaxed is like getting a booster shot of the vaccine. Your body should develop even more resistance to it based on that exposure.

I read an Israeli study that showed 7x's stronger antibodies from getting COVID over getting the vaccine.

Interesting- I had read the opposite- that the vaccine is actually more protective than having had Covid. Who knows. But having both- the vax and the disease, likely is better than just one or the other.

Right! ?!?!?!

[Chi town]

I read that Delta is charging unvaccinated employees an extra $200/mo for health insurance now.

Wow. Lets see what happens with lawsuits on that one. Or people dogging to get fired so they get unemployment.

[Chi town]

One of my best friends is a doctor in Texas and the last few times I've spoken to him it's become clear that he's on the verge of a mental breakdown. He's just so exhausted and disheartened by everything. Last time I spoke to him (and this was maybe two weeks back) he did mention that about 99% of the people at his hospital were unvaccinated which I think makes it that much more frustrating for him.

There was a walkout of doctors and nurses at a Miami hospital the other day, trying to bring awareness to the unvaccinated of how much these health care workers are having to deal on account of their reluctance to get the jab. It's a tragedy that this has become so politicized, or that people have so much mistrust of the scientific community or govt, or that they are just ignorant about their chances of getting serious ill or dying from Covid.

I've heard of hospitals where 50% of the STAFF were unvaccinated. And these are people with a scientific background, working in close quarters with Covid (or at least some of them).

My heart goes out to all the medical workers who are having to deal with this, and have been for the last 18 months.

The emotional drain on the healthcare workers is devastating. The mental health of some of friends in that community is really heavy. They just aren't the same people. So sad on so many levels.

[Chi town]

I wonder if getting COvid after you have been vaxed is like getting a booster shot of the vaccine. Your body should develop even more resistance to it based on that exposure.

I read an Israeli study that showed 7x's stronger antibodies from getting COVID over getting the vaccine.

Link?

That runs contrary to what I have read in the past, here's just the first two links I found when searching:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article252185473.html
https://whyy.org/articles/what-immunity-did-having-covid-19-give-me-do-i-still-need-a-vaccine/

Let me hunt it down.

[dougthonus]

I read that Delta is charging unvaccinated employees an extra $200/mo for health insurance now.

Wow. Lets see what happens with lawsuits on that one. Or people dogging to get fired so they get unemployment.

Companies can straight up fire you for not getting vaccinated if they choose to in most states under current law. It wouldn't surprise me if companies do fire people over vaccination routinely in the near future now that Pfizer is FDA approved (some already have done it) and it further wouldn't surprise me if that is challenged in a law suit that I could legitimately see going either way.

I think actually firing people is a much safer alternative legally than charging different rates for health insurance, because firing you can be due to the risk you are imposing on other people around you rather. Health insurance is wild because there are many conditions that likely have a much higher health risk than COVID. You should charge more for obesity or pre-existing conditions in that case (though my wife's old company used to do that so that isn't unprecedented either). Granted, if Delta already charges different rates for health insurance based on employee health risk they might be more protected and also I'm not a lawyer, so I suppose my ramblings on what is legal should be taken with a grain of salt. I just work with risk/compliance a lot at my past couple jobs.

[Chi town]

That's shocking to read about those people who died from the vaccine. I thought that complication was pretty rare. I'm glad I didn't know about that before my parents got it.

Blood clots have only been linked to the J&J (of the 3 vaccines available in the US) and occur 7x per one million doses. There have been maybe 2 billion doses of the major vaccines given out, there is massively robust data on it. You can judge for yourself whether this information is unreliable, had a struck by lightning three times event happen to people he knows, the entire scientific community is lying about the vaccine, or whether there was just significant coincidence involved.

Yep, my info could be unreliable. I'm just relaying what has been shared with me from the sources. Could be biased.

Talking to nurses here around the Bay Area that were forced to report COVID cases even with negative tests and also communicating there have been lots of people being hosptialized with issues from the vaccine. Primarily in elderly and obese populations. We dont' really much about his in the media. One nurse told me this could also be people being "undertreated" for other big medical issues because they steered clear of the hospital due to COVID.

Its all so complex. The oversimplification by so many news sources always villainizing is tiresome too. I know nurses that have had covid multiple times serving on the front lines risking thier lives when we knew very little and based on their antibodies refeuse to get the vaccine and will now be losing their jobs. Heartbreaking on so many levels.

[dougthonus]

That's shocking to read about those people who died from the vaccine. I thought that complication was pretty rare. I'm glad I didn't know about that before my parents got it.

Blood clots have only been linked to the J&J (of the 3 vaccines available in the US) and occur 7x per one million doses. There have been maybe 2 billion doses of the major vaccines given out, there is massively robust data on it. You can judge for yourself whether this information is unreliable, had a struck by lightning three times event happen to people he knows, the entire scientific community is lying about the vaccine, or whether there was just significant coincidence involved.

Doing some quick math, if 2b doses have been given, assuming 1/3 are J/J, that makes around 700m, so there should be about 4900 cases of clot formation. And of those, how many would be fatal? Maybe 1 in 10. So 490. And let's say 1/4 of those occur in the US.
That's about 125 in the whole US.

There have only been about 14M doses of J&J given in the US. Which would make it about 10 people in the US. I just made up the 2B number, and looked it is 5B total doses of vaccine administered. I'm not sure how many use the same ingredients as the J&J that can cause blood clots.

[Jimako10]

I read that Delta is charging unvaccinated employees an extra $200/mo for health insurance now.

Wow. Lets see what happens with lawsuits on that one. Or people dogging to get fired so they get unemployment.

Companies can straight up fire you for not getting vaccinated if they choose to in most states under current law. It wouldn't surprise me if companies do fire people over vaccination routinely in the near future now that Pfizer is FDA approved (some already have done it) and it further wouldn't surprise me if that is challenged in a law suit that I could legitimately see going either way.

I think actually firing people is a much safer alternative legally than charging different rates for health insurance, because firing you can be due to the risk you are imposing on other people around you rather. Health insurance is wild because there are many conditions that likely have a much higher health risk than COVID. You should charge more for obesity or pre-existing conditions in that case (though my wife's old company used to do that so that isn't unprecedented either). Granted, if Delta already charges different rates for health insurance based on employee health risk they might be more protected and also I'm not a lawyer, so I suppose my ramblings on what is legal should be taken with a grain of salt. I just work with risk/compliance a lot at my past couple jobs.

Even before covid, hospitals can fire you if you don't get a flu shot. Flu shots are required unless you have a waiver for religious/medical reasons.

[chefo]

Both my wife and I are vaccinated, but I can understand why even medical professionals were/are not comfortable with MRNA vaccines.

The technology has been around for 30 years and going, and until COVID-19, the medical community itself viewed them with a huge dose of skepticism. These vaccines are NOT anything like what we have 70 years of data on. The method of operation is entirely different and quite frankly, nobody knows what the long-term effects on the body are.

In my anecdotal case, I had a full blown autoimmune response for almost a month after the second dose. Haven't been in this much pain and that miserable for that long, ever. Every effin' joint--toes, fingers, feet, ankles, knees, hips, elbows, shoulders, neck--horrible headaches out of the blue (That I've never had before--still come and go)... which as it turns out, are fairly common side effects of the vaccine I took, if not as severe as mine.

The big pharma corps got one big assumption wrong--that when they stick you in the shoulder, the only cells that will be trained to produce the spike protein will remain in the shoulder. Hence, your immune system will react and inflame the entry point only... except, they now find cells producing that spike protein everywhere in the body. And, given that the immune system is trained to attack everything that looks like that protein, for all we know, we might have all given ourselves some variation of MS. Or maybe not. We won't know for a decade probably.

New medical technologies are usually tested over a decade before the tech is allowed in the general public and every medical professional knows that. The ones who took the vaccine judged that the risk is well worth it, or had to. But I can see how a ton of healthcare workers, especially doctors, thought otherwise.

We're the guinea pigs for an entirely new vaccine paradigm. I just hope the guys who designed these were not brilliant idiots.

[The 6ft Hurdle]

I read that Delta is charging unvaccinated employees an extra $200/mo for health insurance now.

Wow. Lets see what happens with lawsuits on that one. Or people dogging to get fired so they get unemployment.

I think the only people that would actually benefit from unemployment rather than employment in California would be those part-timers in service industries with inconsistent and/or sporadic work. Right now with the extra $300 signed by Trump and then Biden, people have been able to get a max of $3000 a month, which might mean something in California's more in-land cities, but next to the water where most people work and live from SD to SF, you might be able to afford a room to rent.

Otherwise, no one in their right mind would be angling to get fired.