NBA Trade Thread #12

[2weekswithpay]

Of the three trade pieces, who do you think has more value: Giddey, Matas, or Coby? League wise, outside Bulls fan forums.

Giddey: 23 yr old 20pt triple double. The max he can get 5yrs/$150 is probably a steal compared to what he would get if he was eligible for more probably $40 mill to max PER 18.1, VORP 2.7

Matas: 20 yr old rookie averaged 8.6 pts, 3.5 rbs, 1 asst, .9 blocks, .4 steals in 19 minutes Didn't get a ton of minutes to start the season, affects his raw numbers but not PER or VORP, I don't think. 3 cheap years left. PER 12.5, VORP-.2

Coby: 25 yr old guard, 1 cheap contract year left. 20.4 pts, 4.5 assts, 3.7 rbs in 33 minutes PER 15.5, VORP .7 Could get $40 mill/yr AAV in 2026

For a team like the Bucks, where there's nothing to gain losing over the next few years, would probably place higher value on younger players ready to start now. We all love Matas, but realistically Coby and definitely Giddey should be worth more in trade, based on performance so far.

I think all three should have very good value, especially Giddey. Don't agree a lot of teams could beat our best offer without killing their teams, unless the Bucks value picks over everything else. And we have a good number of picks.

Bucks do have a first 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030, 2031. They're only missing 2029 and those pick swaps all those other years are with Pelicans, could be just as bad or worse than theirs anyway. They could legit both be lottery teams each year.

Coby.

Giddey needs an extension.

Matas didn't have a great year if we're comparing him to past rookies. The contract is valuable, but he isn't a good player right now.

I was under the impression that Josh.could get 41 mil, the 30.numbet was just some rumor / post trade chatter.

The 30M number was what Giddey wanted last summer. Giving Giddey 41M would be insane right now.

[Chi town]

Vuc back to ORL? For Isaac?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280271/Jeff-Weltman-Magic-Are-In-Win-Now-Phase;-Must-Add-Offense-This-Offseason

[LateNight]

Vuc back to ORL? For Isaac?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280271/Jeff-Weltman-Magic-Are-In-Win-Now-Phase;-Must-Add-Offense-This-Offseason

“we’ve got an elite defensive backbone. And as we look to improve our offense, we have to be very cognizant of not unraveling the DNA of our team”

That feels like a no to vuc

[Infinity2152]

Of the three trade pieces, who do you think has more value: Giddey, Matas, or Coby? League wise, outside Bulls fan forums.

Giddey: 23 yr old 20pt triple double. The max he can get 5yrs/$150 is probably a steal compared to what he would get if he was eligible for more probably $40 mill to max PER 18.1, VORP 2.7

Matas: 20 yr old rookie averaged 8.6 pts, 3.5 rbs, 1 asst, .9 blocks, .4 steals in 19 minutes Didn't get a ton of minutes to start the season, affects his raw numbers but not PER or VORP, I don't think. 3 cheap years left. PER 12.5, VORP-.2

Coby: 25 yr old guard, 1 cheap contract year left. 20.4 pts, 4.5 assts, 3.7 rbs in 33 minutes PER 15.5, VORP .7 Could get $40 mill/yr AAV in 2026

For a team like the Bucks, where there's nothing to gain losing over the next few years, would probably place higher value on younger players ready to start now. We all love Matas, but realistically Coby and definitely Giddey should be worth more in trade, based on performance so far.

I think all three should have very good value, especially Giddey. Don't agree a lot of teams could beat our best offer without killing their teams, unless the Bucks value picks over everything else. And we have a good number of picks.

Bucks do have a first 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030, 2031. They're only missing 2029 and those pick swaps all those other years are with Pelicans, could be just as bad or worse than theirs anyway. They could legit both be lottery teams each year.

Coby.

Giddey needs an extension.

Matas didn't have a great year if we're comparing him to past rookies. The contract is valuable, but he isn't a good player right now.

I was under the impression that Josh.could get 41 mil, the 30.numbet was just some rumor / post trade chatter.

Think for players with 6 years or less experience, max is 25% of cap. With a cap of 154.6 next year, puts Giddey's absolute max at $38.7 mill starting. Most common projections I'm seeing now are around that 5yr/$150 mill mark. With Brooklyn being the only team that could really make him an offer, unlikely he gets over $30 unless Brooklyn jumps in. $30 mill is also the number he actually said he was targeting at the start of the season.

We have the advantage of being able to add a fifth year. Can offer slightly lower AAV for more guaranteed money, if that's what he's looking for.

[Donkedave]

To utilise its cap space Brooklyn would have renounce a lot of cap holds right?

$110m currently!

[pipfan]

Bulls offer Port pick to OKC for #24 and Dieng

OKC saves $, roster spots and punts a 1st down the road.

Bulls get a look at Dieng and add a pick. Buyout JCarter to free up the roster spot

[sco]

Bulls offer Port pick to OKC for #24 and Dieng

OKC saves $, roster spots and punts a 1st down the road.

Bulls get a look at Dieng and add a pick. Buyout JCarter to free up the roster spot

Gotta say, that would be a huge win. There are a few guys who might be interesting at 24, but more interestingly, maybe we could pair that pick with Ayo or Smith for someone even more interesting or a better pick.

[pipfan]

Bulls offer Port pick to OKC for #24 and Dieng

OKC saves $, roster spots and punts a 1st down the road.

Bulls get a look at Dieng and add a pick. Buyout JCarter to free up the roster spot

Gotta say, that would be a huge win. There are a few guys who might be interesting at 24, but more interestingly, maybe we could pair that pick with Ayo or Smith for someone even more interesting or a better pick.

I figure Dieng needs time to develop but clearly has talent. OKC is loaded and this moves saves them $ and gives them the Port pick probable to convert sometime in the next 3 years

I think that big French kid Beringer or Bryant (Ariz) might be there at 24, could be a great addition.

[Chi town]

Bulls offer Port pick to OKC for #24 and Dieng

OKC saves $, roster spots and punts a 1st down the road.

Bulls get a look at Dieng and add a pick. Buyout JCarter to free up the roster spot

Gotta say, that would be a huge win. There are a few guys who might be interesting at 24, but more interestingly, maybe we could pair that pick with Ayo or Smith for someone even more interesting or a better pick.

This is what I want to do to get another pick and get Beringer.

OKC and BKN are great teams for this that will be looking to swap a 1st this year for a future 1st

[Infinity2152]

Portis has a player option, $13 mill he could very well decline, especially if Giannis wants out and they pivot to rebuild. Thoughts on Portis, say $12-15 mill AAV if we could swing S&T for Collins or Vucevic? We might be able to sign him into an exception or straight out, but wouldn't want to do it without a deal for Collins or Vucevic already in place. Portis is only 29, good shooter, hustles on defense and brings a toughness the Bulls sorely lack.

Think he'd be good on the team in that sixth man/replacement starter high-energy vet enforcer role. Why the Bucks would do it: they get an expiring, reasonably productive expiring replacement for a guy who could leave for nothing.

[MrSparkle]

One thing in hindsight... I thought the Dame pickup was a big splash, but there was no doubt it was a risky trade given his age and salary. The cost was huge since Jrue himself was a big-time player, let alone all the picks.

How did the Bucks not consider a lower-cost-of-assets guy like Lavine? Or Demar? Why did they give up ANYTHING for Kuzma? They've done quite poorly.

Anyway, I think before they shop him, they'll try to keep him and make the best of it, Clippers/Kawhi/Harden style. Few trade ideas (and signings) that might make Bucks stand pat (with Giannis):

1. Trade Lillard to a lottery-aspirational team for healthy guys on overpaid deals. Probably include whatever asset Bucks have left to make the deal happen. Other team sit on the gamble of Dame returning to decent form as a starting PG when that $60M is expiring and quite a decent trade chip (or just 2027 cap relief). I think 2032 is their next available-to-trade FRP.

Wizards: Smart, Poole, Holmes
Blazers: Grant, Ayton, Thybulle

These returns are rich for a 35yo $60m guy with a torn heel, but I'm sure there's some other idea that might work. Or they just cough up the 2032 first, maybe protected, or maybe just a swap.

2. Trade Kuzma for an even "worse" player(s), who might turn the script playing in a new spot with Giannis. Not the best ideas either, but just surveying:

Heat: Rozier
Magic: KCP (more-so salary savings for ORL)
Bulls: Pwill
Lakers: Rui
Suns: Grayson
Hornets: Grant Williams, Nurkic

3. For their MMLE target, they should pursue Schroder. Best replacement PG possible, imo. Then you resign Brook, get Bobby to pick up that option... scour some more vet min bargains (Brogdon, Oubre, Javonte, THT)... It's actually gonna be the worst-paid FA summer ever, so the value vet. min. options may be quite abundant.

Quite frankly, they're not winning a ring, but they keep the Greek Freak in town. Truth is, he alone makes them a long shot contender. Getting their defensive identity back would be a step in the right direction.

I don't see a Bulls deal that nets Giannis. I firmly believe it would have to be a farm/asset/roster-decimating trade for them to answer the text: Matas, Coby, Huerter, Collins, and at least 6 years of unprotected Bulls picks and swaps (plus the Blazers' semi-worthless pick). I only see UFA in 2027 as a potential scenario, if Giannis makes it till then without an extension or trade.

Thinking all this through, I think the Bulls should consider rehabbing Kuzma's value for P-Will, or actually entering the Lillard-relief forum. Here we go:

Dame, 2032 FRP (top-1 protected), 3 SRPs (via DET, UTA & their '31)
Vuc, PWill, Huerter, Jevon

We clear Pat's salary, the rest of the guys are pointless win-now guys. We set up a 25/26 tank scenario. And then in 2026/27, have an expiring Dame - either a trade chip, or $63M off the cap for free agency. Of course AK would never do this, but I might. Especially since Dame could very well (50/50) become a good player again with the 1.5 years off.

[Infinity2152]

One thing in hindsight... I thought the Dame pickup was a big splash, but there was no doubt it was a risky trade given his age and salary. The cost was huge since Jrue himself was a big-time player, let alone all the picks.

How did the Bucks not consider a lower-cost-of-assets guy like Lavine? Or Demar? Or

That would have undoubtedly been better. Trade would have centered around Middleton rather than Holiday, most probably. Team would have been much stronger, with a far lower cost in picks. Jrue Holiday, Zach Lavine, Giannis, Portis, Lopez is a hell of a lineup. Everybody can shoot around Giannis.

[sco]

Portis has a player option, $13 mill he could very well decline, especially if Giannis wants out and they pivot to rebuild. Thoughts on Portis, say $12-15 mill AAV if we could swing S&T for Collins or Vucevic? We might be able to sign him into an exception or straight out, but wouldn't want to do it without a deal for Collins or Vucevic already in place. Portis is only 29, good shooter, hustles on defense and brings a toughness the Bulls sorely lack.

Think he'd be good on the team in that sixth man/replacement starter high-energy vet enforcer role. Why the Bucks would do it: they get an expiring, reasonably productive expiring replacement for a guy who could leave for nothing.

Gotta think Portis declines his option. He's the definition of a full MLE player. I wouldn't mind him as a 6th man type guy, especially if Vuc goes, but the only way I see Vuc in MIL is if BroLo goes. BroLo very well might stick around because he's on the cusp of retiring and maybe values contiuity over a short stint elsewhere, even for less $. Back on Bobby, his defensive game has slipped a lot in recent years IMO.

[Chi town]

Portis has a player option, $13 mill he could very well decline, especially if Giannis wants out and they pivot to rebuild. Thoughts on Portis, say $12-15 mill AAV if we could swing S&T for Collins or Vucevic? We might be able to sign him into an exception or straight out, but wouldn't want to do it without a deal for Collins or Vucevic already in place. Portis is only 29, good shooter, hustles on defense and brings a toughness the Bulls sorely lack.

Think he'd be good on the team in that sixth man/replacement starter high-energy vet enforcer role. Why the Bucks would do it: they get an expiring, reasonably productive expiring replacement for a guy who could leave for nothing.

Gotta think Portis declines his option. He's the definition of a full MLE player. I wouldn't mind him as a 6th man type guy, especially if Vuc goes, but the only way I see Vuc in MIL is if BroLo goes. BroLo very well might stick around because he's on the cusp of retiring and maybe values contiuity over a short stint elsewhere, even for less $. Back on Bobby, his defensive game has slipped a lot in recent years IMO.

Bobby wants to play for a winner which we are too young for. I see him going to a contender type team.

[Infinity2152]

Portis has familiarity with Chicago, we drafted him, and we could look pretty bright depending on who/where we draft and our trade/free agents moves. The play for a winner, he has a ring, that may not be his biggest priority. He very well could have a home in or around Chicago, as long as he was here. Different management than he dealt with before, so any issues there should be moot. Portis would get a lot of love and probably be greatly appreciated if he comes back to Chicago. Redemption.

With Brook Lopez, think he re-signs, but don't think he's viewed as more than $10-15 mill backup center, 20 minute max guy at his age. Adding Vuc or Collins, you still keep Lopez, but they split minutes. They expire in a year. That's if Portis wants out of course. Not a lot of money in free agency from contenders who need bigs, doubt he gets a ton of offers with guys like Naz Reid and Turner on the block. Our future damn sure looks brighter than the Bucks after a Giannis trade, imo.

[pipfan]

I would love to add Portis
White/Ayo
Giddey/Ball
Matas/Huerter
Portis/PWill
Collins/Smith
Terry/Phillips/JCarter as deep bench, trade them Vuc

[Infinity2152]

Question: most people don't want Coby to be our starting SG. Outside of draft prospects who have never played, who in the NBA should we target for SG? Looking at a quick list, seems pretty close, top 10 next year:

Devin Booker
Anthony Edwards
Jaylen Brown
Donovan Mitchell
Jalen Williams
Bradley Beal
Mikal Bridges
Desmond Bane
Devin Vassell
Tyler Herro

Then you have guys like Bogdan Bogdanovic, Zach Lavine and Jalen Green. Most of those guys are ungettable or the cost to acquire would be way too high. The two I think it would be worth at least exploring a trade based around Coby are Desmond Bane and Devin Vassell. Don't want to argue likelihood of trade success, they're non All-Stars at this point, you miss every shot you don't take, lol. Those are the two I'd target.

[MrSparkle]

The Coby options are pretty straight-forward.

He drives me crazy, but you keep Coby through next season. If he plays poorly, you resign him cheap (around $20M, which I think is solid for a 20/4/4 young-prime combo guard). If he plays very well (but short of all-star), you either shop him at deadline if the extension talks are looking ugly ($30M+), or plan a S&T. If he plays incredible well (all-star), then you just pay the market value and worry about it later. Who the **** gives up a good young player with good culture for straight garbage?

Of course if an attractive trade comes up, or you can get a top-10 pick, then go for it.

[Ccwatercraft]

Question: most people don't want Coby to be our starting SG. Outside of draft prospects who have never played, who in the NBA should we target for SG? Looking at a quick list, seems pretty close, top 10 next year:

Devin Booker
Anthony Edwards
Jaylen Brown
Donovan Mitchell
Jalen Williams
Bradley Beal
Mikal Bridges
Desmond Bane
Devin Vassell
Tyler Herro

Then you have guys like Bogdan Bogdanovic, Zach Lavine and Jalen Green. Most of those guys are ungettable or the cost to acquire would be way too high. The two I think it would be worth at least exploring a trade based around Coby are Desmond Bane and Devin Vassell. Don't want to argue likelihood of trade success, they're non All-Stars at this point, you miss every shot you don't take, lol. Those are the two I'd target.

Memphis is at a crossroads and has JJJ due an extension. He would offer some of that defensive stuff we talk about.

If we're going all in...I'd rather actually fill a need. it would be a score, his salary is easier to match.

[Infinity2152]

Question: most people don't want Coby to be our starting SG. Outside of draft prospects who have never played, who in the NBA should we target for SG? Looking at a quick list, seems pretty close, top 10 next year:

Devin Booker
Anthony Edwards
Jaylen Brown
Donovan Mitchell
Jalen Williams
Bradley Beal
Mikal Bridges
Desmond Bane
Devin Vassell
Tyler Herro

Then you have guys like Bogdan Bogdanovic, Zach Lavine and Jalen Green. Most of those guys are ungettable or the cost to acquire would be way too high. The two I think it would be worth at least exploring a trade based around Coby are Desmond Bane and Devin Vassell. Don't want to argue likelihood of trade success, they're non All-Stars at this point, you miss every shot you don't take, lol. Those are the two I'd target.

Memphis is at a crossroads and has JJJ due an extension. He would offer some of that defensive stuff we talk about.

If we're going all in...I'd rather actually fill a need. it would be a score, his salary is easier to match.

Oh, I agree. I'm perfectly fine with keeping Coby until/unless a better SG comes along. He and giddey play well together, cheap next year and if he's worth paying market value in 2026, pay market value. I was just wondering who the upgrades people were considering as Coby replacements/upgrades. Most Coby trades leave Huerter as a stop gap, just wondering who guys were actually looking for to play SG, realistically. Unless one of the top 3 guys is available when we pick, I'd just draft Maluach if he's there and call it a day. Hopefully have center locked down for years and look around the league for that defensive SF/PF to fill the final spot like you suggest. Trade one (or two) of our centers in the offseason to bolster forward depth.

Don't know what a trade for JJJ would look like, but if we could do it without giving up 2025 draft pick, Coby, Giddey, or Matas, we could be looking at: Giddey, White, Matas, JJJ, Maluach with good depth still on the bench. Don't know if you were looking at JJJ at center, but he plays much better at PF, I think. Paint defense and help defense could be elite. Scoring and 3PA should be pretty damn good between Giddey, White, Matas, and JJJ.