Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[johnnyvann840]

Gar/Pax have been going after all-star PF's for a reason. Not my feeling but theirs.

Not because they don;t have faith on Taj. They STOLE Pau and we needed a big BADLY. WE still only have THREE guys at the 4 and 5 who have EVER played in the NBA.. Do people not see this? And of course they are going after Kevin freaking Love. That has nothing to do with Taj, either, if Kawhi were on the block we would trying to get him too, doesnt mean they don't like Jimmy

[Rerisen]

Martin talks like a pussy and he looks one and he plays like one.

Sounds like a questionable way to rate a player.

Think about how you rate Taj Gibson, apply the same method to Martin, and you will see he is a decent player. Positive impacting on offense, more so than negative on defense. At least for the last 2 years, and 3 of the last 4.

[Polynice4Pippen]

So, do you want to bet, or not?

Bet for what? Gar/Pax have been going after all-star PF's for a reason. Not my feeling but theirs.

Winner picks the losers avy for a month. Silly, but could be fun.

Again I'm not seeing the point. A team that's satisfied with their starting PF doesn't go out chasing all-star PF's. I'm not saying Taj isn't a valuable player, but he's clearly thought of as a role player.

[AKfanatic]

Perhaps they value him as a 6th man. It could be that they see the energy he brings and prefer him in a role that allows him to expend his energy in that frenetic way players off the bench often do

He is still going to be squeezed even as a 6th man. Or else Mirotic is, and we are paying almost 6m for him. I don't want to pay 6m to a player who doesn't play, when we are trying to win right now.

But if he does play, we are looking at minute squeezes all over the place. I don't think even think Noah should be dropped below 33mpg. I don't think he needs to, I don't think it makes us better, and I don't think it really ups his chances greatly of making it to the playoffs uninjured.

Noah 33 | Pau 15
Gibson 28 | Pau 13 | Mirotic 7

5.5m dollars for 7 minutes?!?!

Lot's of wasted minutes there. Probably about 15 in all, and to afford this luxury of wasting we have to trot out likely two subpar offensive wings.

Yeah, eventually they'll need to consolidate. A lot will depend on how quickly Niko adjusts and how well his game translates. But none of that means the guys in the front office don't value Taj.

We'll also probably see Gasol and Noah miss some time, in which case I'd hope we have a guy prepared to step in and keep the bus rolling.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Gar/Pax have been going after all-star PF's for a reason. Not my feeling but theirs.

Not because they don;t have faith on Taj. They STOLE Pau and we needed a big BADLY. WE still only have THREE guys at the 4 and 5 who have EVER played in the NBA.. Do people not see this? And of course they are going after Kevin freaking Love. That has nothing to do with Taj, either, if Kawhi were on the block we would trying to get him too, doesnt mean they don't like Jimmy

Yet many around here have McDermott and Mirotic in the untradeable column. Just saying.

[johnnyvann840]

Martin talks like a pussy and he looks one and he plays like one.

Sounds like a questionable way to rate a player.

Think about how you rate Taj Gibson, apply the same method to Martin, and you will see he is a decent player. Positive impacting on offense, more so than negative on defense. At least for the last 2 years, and 3 of the last 4.

I watch him play and I don't like what I see. He sucks the energy out of the game. and my pussy comments are meant to be humorous. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[Rerisen]

It's clear what i meant. He is a good player, but his 20 points doesn't hurt you in the same way 20 from Wade would.

Who cares about Dwayne Wade, we aren't getting Dwayne Wade. No one we brought in this year to score is going to hurt a team like Wade would.

We need shooting, spacing, and much more volume scoring. Ideally efficiency. He does all that.

He is an accumulator who gets his. He is not a reliable 2nd option, and i question if he is reliable as a 3rd option as well.

We don't have a reliable 2nd option right now! And if we do, then we don't have a reliable 3rd!

He is a Jamal Crawford type player, or someone who i would put in that role. Again, i didn't say i would have him on this team, just not in a swap for Gibson, who is the better player.

Yes Gibson is a better player, you don't trade Gibson for Martin straight up.

It's not reason to go off on tirades about Martin. If they said Martin for Dunleavy and some junky future pick, I'd say say yes before they could reconsider.

You routinely cite Pau Gasol's demise in the playoffs, but in Martin's last playoff performance, playing next to the best player in the game not named Lebron James, in a similar role to what he would be here, his numbers were:

That team doesn't function without Durant and Westbrook, and they lost Westbrook that year in the playoffs.

Martin is a good player, but he is getting on in years, is often injured and can go missing. Again, so it is clear, i would take him on this team, but you only take him for the right price. Taj isn't that price.

Agreed on Taj, but totally irrelevant to a logical evaluation of Martin. Half of what I'm reading people would prefer just keeping MDJ as our starter, because Kmart is being made out like John Lucas or something.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Maybe in the regular season but not in the playoffs. Noah's playing 36-40 minutes a night come playoff time. And if Pau is healthy and is in all-star form he'll be playing 35 minutes as well because an all-star version of Pau>Taj.

If both Pau and Noah are playing 35 minutes in the playoff, there is still 26 minutes for Taj.

Thibs won't be gifting Mirotic minutes come playoff time if he hasn't earned it, contract or not.

So Taj is a role player, a high quality back up. How is trading a back up for a legit starting SG, another high quality SG prospect and a lower level back up big man some sort of travesty? Especially when you have another PF in place you're paying over $5 million who's dominated a professional league for the past few years.

[Rerisen]

I watch him play and I don't like what I see. He sucks the energy out of the game. and my pussy comments are meant to be humorous. Sorry if I offended anyone.

So he's just stylistically offensive to you. That's fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I don't really notice anything special about how he plays vs other plays, apart from the pros and cons we've covered. Good offense, bad defense, etc. If he sucked the energy from his team though they'd probably be worse when he played but its been the opposite.

[GimmeDat]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/source-k ... 1406329327

We mentioned this? Boy, with offers like Amare, Shumpert and THJ for Kevin Love, the Knicks will be back contending in no time!

[johnnyvann840]

Gar/Pax have been going after all-star PF's for a reason. Not my feeling but theirs.

Not because they don;t have faith on Taj. They STOLE Pau and we needed a big BADLY. WE still only have THREE guys at the 4 and 5 who have EVER played in the NBA.. Do people not see this? And of course they are going after Kevin freaking Love. That has nothing to do with Taj, either, if Kawhi were on the block we would trying to get him too, doesnt mean they don't like Jimmy

Yet many around here have McDermott and Mirotic in the untradeable column. Just saying.

I hear you.. Just sayin that if we dealt Taj for a mediocre wing and an unproven 4 or even somebody like TT from CLE.. Its a huge downgrade and now we still have only 3 guys at the 4 and 5 who have ever played in teh NBA, but only two of who we know can really play, but now a scrubbish guy, and a rookie from Europe who we cannot expect much from this year.

[kingkirk]

Those weren't the parts I was responding to though.

You responded to my 'hollow' post, which was born out of the Taj vs Martin stuff.

[johnnyvann840]

I watch him play and I don't like what I see. He sucks the energy out of the game. and my pussy comments are meant to be humorous. Sorry if I offended anyone.

So he's just stylistically offensive to you. That's fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I don't really notice anything special about how he plays vs other plays, apart from the pros and cons we've covered. Good offense, bad defense, etc. If he sucked the energy from his team though they'd probably be worse when he played but its been the opposite.

The other thing I really don't like about him is the way he doesn't give a **** if his guy blows by him, shoots over him.. doesn't matter to him. He never goes hard. And he's only great shooter from the left elbow and right corner... he's not good frodm anywhere else and I think good defenses know this and take away his spots.. He's been a part of so many bad team he gets a lot of garbage stats too.

[kingkirk]

So Taj is a role player, a high quality back up. How is trading a back up for a legit starting SG, another high quality SG prospect and a lower level back up big man some sort of travesty? Especially when you have another PF in place you're paying over $5 million who's dominated a professional league for the past few years.

Why is Taj are role player and Martin not? Because he had the opportunity to start last season?

When Martin was last in the playoffs, he was a 6th man as well, and he was ordinary.

You make a trade to based on a fair value at worst. Martin for Taj isn't fair value imo, no matter what role Gibson is supposedly assigned to by some on this board in July.

Martin for Dunleavy, Snell and whatever makes sense, because that is equal value given Minnesota want to dump his ass.

[Axl Rose]

another high quality SG prospect

i hope you dont mean waiters

[Polynice4Pippen]

Not because they don;t have faith on Taj. They STOLE Pau and we needed a big BADLY. WE still only have THREE guys at the 4 and 5 who have EVER played in the NBA.. Do people not see this? And of course they are going after Kevin freaking Love. That has nothing to do with Taj, either, if Kawhi were on the block we would trying to get him too, doesnt mean they don't like Jimmy

Yet many around here have McDermott and Mirotic in the untradeable column. Just saying.

I hear you.. Just sayin that if we dealt Taj for a mediocre wing and an unproven 4 or even somebody like TT from CLE.. Its a huge downgrade and now we still have only 3 guys at the 4 and 5 who have ever played in teh NBA, but only two of who we know can really play, but now a scrubbish guy, and a rookie from Europe who we cannot expect much from this year.

Completely disagree. Noah, Gasol and Mirotic can handle the majority of the PF/C minutes. Niko has been a great player in Europe, got a pretty decent contract from us, Gar/Pax are high on him, turned down top 10 picks for him. They believe in him. Thompson would be fine as the 4th big. Meanwhile, Martin would instantly be our best scoring wing, an upgrade we're in desperate need of. Can't see how that can be objectively argued.

[Rerisen]

Those weren't the parts I was responding to though.

You responded to my 'hollow' post, which was born out of the Taj vs Martin stuff.

Well I still don't understand that. Just because Taj is better than Martin I don't get why his scoring is 'hollow'.

If it's because he doesn't score like Wade... well that should be a given, none of the players in the discussion are close to a healthy Wade and I'm not sure why anyone would need it explained that Martin doesn't affect an offense like a healthy Wade.

Every single player on our team's scoring is also 'hollow' then beside Derrick Rose. Because we have no one else as versatile as Wade. Doug McDermott and Mirotic will good chance be 'hollow' scorers as well by that comparison.

[Rerisen]

The other thing I really don't like about him is the way he doesn't give a **** if his guy blows by him, shoots over him.. doesn't matter to him. He never goes hard. And he's only great shooter from the left elbow and right corner... he's not good frodm anywhere else and I think good defenses know this and take away his spots.. He's been a part of so many bad team he gets a lot of garbage stats too.

Look at his 2013 shot chart. He's hot from virtually all over. Shooters have fluctuations like that year to year.

Is his scoring inflated? Possibly a couple points, but he's still clearly a much higher volume scorer than someone like Korver or MDJ.

If he came here with Love, I doubt we'd need more than 15-16 a game from him, and he'd do that easy. And if his scoring does come down, fair chance his efficiency goes back up.

[danzou]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/source-knicks-made-offer-for-kevin-love-timberwolves-balked-1406329327

We mentioned this? Boy, with offers like Amare, Shumpert and THJ for Kevin Love, the Knicks will be back contending in no time!

Phil can tell Melo that he "tried."

[johnnyvann840]

Yet many around here have McDermott and Mirotic in the untradeable column. Just saying.

I hear you.. Just sayin that if we dealt Taj for a mediocre wing and an unproven 4 or even somebody like TT from CLE.. Its a huge downgrade and now we still have only 3 guys at the 4 and 5 who have ever played in teh NBA, but only two of who we know can really play, but now a scrubbish guy, and a rookie from Europe who we cannot expect much from this year.

Completely disagree. Noah, Gasol and Mirotic can handle the majority of the PF/C minutes. Niko has been a great player in Europe, got a pretty decent contract from us, Gar/Pax are high on him, turned down top 10 picks for him. They believe in him. Thompson would be fine as the 4th big. Meanwhile, Martin would instantly be our best scoring wing, an upgrade we're in desperate need of. Can't see how that can be objectively argued.

In the history of the league, only one, Pay Gasol, out of all the Euro's , EVER.. have been even a decent impact player their first year here. Asking Mirotic to come into a very difficult system to learn on D, pick up a new culture and game...it's MUCH different, and be a big part of a contending team.. It's foolish to do and leaving our big rotation that exposed is foolish. We would struggle mightily and maybe even ruin Niko.