2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[drosereturn]

We have 0 clue how good Hayes can be at the next level. It's anyones guess.

What we do know is he is one of the youngest in this draft and has some solid skillsets already.

- Great footwork
- Step back shot
- Good form
- Good passing/vision
- Good pacing
- Can create
- Versatile player
- Good size for a point guard

The cons

- He isn't super athletic
- Lacks that speed burst
- Left hand dominant
- Needs to continue working on his handles and turnovers

Overall Hayes has alot of good skillsets. I think alot are turned off simply because there isn't anything flashy about him. Since Edwards/Ball expected to be gone, he is currently #4 on my list after Deni.

I think most are just running with the narrative that this is a weak draft and as such they target guys who are not as flashy as they want them to be and hammer down on the negatives.
Every player in every draft is flawed.

Luka was knocked for athletic ability and build, Zion was knocked for his body type and style of play. Finding the right player for your team matters more than anything else.

Luka has extreme speed burst and can change pace easily tho. Hayes is neither athletic like a Westbrook type nor has a decent first step to be the leagues top pg. Dont want to waste another top pick in a middling prospect who is barely better than his 2nd tier.
Rubio was several times better prospect and look at him now. Theres no need to gamble on a player that has no star potential.
I smell a bust similar to Frank N of the Knicks and he was pretty good shooter and decent athlete back then.

[MrFortune3]

We have 0 clue how good Hayes can be at the next level. It's anyones guess.

What we do know is he is one of the youngest in this draft and has some solid skillsets already.

- Great footwork
- Step back shot
- Good form
- Good passing/vision
- Good pacing
- Can create
- Versatile player
- Good size for a point guard

The cons

- He isn't super athletic
- Lacks that speed burst
- Left hand dominant
- Needs to continue working on his handles and turnovers

Overall Hayes has alot of good skillsets. I think alot are turned off simply because there isn't anything flashy about him. Since Edwards/Ball expected to be gone, he is currently #4 on my list after Deni.

I think most are just running with the narrative that this is a weak draft and as such they target guys who are not as flashy as they want them to be and hammer down on the negatives.
Every player in every draft is flawed.

Luka was knocked for athletic ability and build, Zion was knocked for his body type and style of play. Finding the right player for your team matters more than anything else.

Luka has extreme speed burst and can change pace easily tho. Hayes is neither athletic like a Westbrook type nor has a decent first step to be the leagues top pg. Dont want to waste another top pick in a middling prospect who is barely better than his 2nd tier.
Rubio was several times better prospect and look at him now. Theres no need to gamble on a player that has no star potential.
I smell a bust similar to Frank N of the Knicks and he was pretty good shooter and decent athlete back then.

Every player in this draft has flaws. Hayes are no larger than others.

[Senor Chang]

Watch on YouTube

Another evaluator basically saying Avdija will never be an all-star type player. Projected him to have Joe Ingles/Dario Saric level of success in the NBA. ie. starters but not all-stars.

Saric isn't even a starter. I get the comparison loosely, but I don't see Ingles at all. Ingles is a shooting specialist and was a very late NBA rookie (27yo), not being a relevant full-time starter until he was 30yo.

If a 19-20yo can basically out-dribble, pass and defend his fully-developed 32yo veteran comparison, then it's not an apt comparison. When you've got a really young player who can create plays on moderate usage and defend in the NBA, he's got star potential. Dario is a soft defender and isn't even close to SF foot-speed or handles - I'm not confident, but I get the sense Deni is significantly better in both areas. If Dario had speed and SF flexibility, he'd still be starting in Philly IMO. They realized he's a situational 1-trick guy.

I still go with my Khryapa-meets-Nocioni comparison for Deni -- he looks like he'll be a tough, team-oriented all-around starter who has some very slick passing skills (Khryapa). If you get an early starting job in the NBA at 20-22yo, you are atleast in conversation for (eventually) all-star. Of course there are the tread-mill types like Barnes and Marvin Williams who did start early, but they were drafted for physical potential, not skills.

You're drafting Deni for his point-forward skills - to me he really is a boom or bust pick. If he can hang with NBA SFs, I don't see how he has role-player ceiling. The only 2 Bulls remotely capable of doing what Deni does in his passing highlights are Valentine and Arci, and physically there's no comparison.

But I definitely see reason to pump the brakes. There's a legit chance his shooting and first-step are below-average at the NBA level. I can't tell.

So on another note, they keep talking about LaMelo as a PG. Is there any reason to see this guy as a career 6'7 SF if he puts 20 lb. on that frame? I don't like the idea of playing this guy at the 1 alongside wings, but if he adds to that frame and just moves up to forward, it's a whole other story.

I like the Nocioni comparison. Im thinking somewhere between Nocioni and Draymond green. He won't lead a team to a title as a top 2 scorer but he can be vital to a championship team as a super role player.

[Dez]

We have 0 clue how good Hayes can be at the next level. It's anyones guess.

What we do know is he is one of the youngest in this draft and has some solid skillsets already.

- Great footwork
- Step back shot
- Good form
- Good passing/vision
- Good pacing
- Can create
- Versatile player
- Good size for a point guard

The cons

- He isn't super athletic
- Lacks that speed burst
- Left hand dominant
- Needs to continue working on his handles and turnovers

Overall Hayes has alot of good skillsets. I think alot are turned off simply because there isn't anything flashy about him. Since Edwards/Ball expected to be gone, he is currently #4 on my list after Deni.

I think most are just running with the narrative that this is a weak draft and as such they target guys who are not as flashy as they want them to be and hammer down on the negatives.
Every player in every draft is flawed.

Luka was knocked for athletic ability and build, Zion was knocked for his body type and style of play. Finding the right player for your team matters more than anything else.

Luka has extreme speed burst and can change pace easily tho. Hayes is neither athletic like a Westbrook type nor has a decent first step to be the leagues top pg. Dont want to waste another top pick in a middling prospect who is barely better than his 2nd tier.
Rubio was several times better prospect and look at him now. Theres no need to gamble on a player that has no star potential.
I smell a bust similar to Frank N of the Knicks and he was pretty good shooter and decent athlete back then.

I've never seen such an incorrect analysis on so many players in one post.

[wonderboy2]

Are you guys cool with th draft being pushed back to November 18? That seems unnecessary to me. They should’ve kept the October 16. Also will there be something comparable to summer league will rookies get to play get game experience?

[Andi Obst]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Okongwu's stock rising with the success Bam is having in these playoffs. I don't see the comp as close as many people do and think people just really want to see the next Bam in OO, but the comp could certainly help him.

[JohnnyTapwater]

Watch on YouTube

Another evaluator basically saying Avdija will never be an all-star type player. Projected him to have Joe Ingles/Dario Saric level of success in the NBA. ie. starters but not all-stars.

Joe Ingles would be great for this roster.

[sco]

Hi guys, Warriors fan here. Would you guys do the following?:

#4 + Lauri Markkenan + Tomas Satoransky for #2 + Eric Paschal + Jordan Poole + Kevon Looney

Probably but I thought the Warriors were trading for someone proven not a draft pick who might need 2-3 years.

I think to be able to facilitate a successful trade, we'd need to include Wiggins. But, most teams aren't even going to listen if we mention him, haha.

If Minny doesn't take Edwards, I would more interested in #2, ie take Wiggins to get it. Something like Otto for #2/Wiggins would be great.

[drosereturn]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Okongwu's stock rising with the success Bam is having in these playoffs. I don't see the comp as close as many people do and think people just really want to see the next Bam in OO, but the comp could certainly help him.

He is bam 2.0 unlike Carter who has no lift at all. Just look at his fluidity, athleticism, and the ability to play bigger than his size.
Screams Draymond, Bam to me. Nobody is like him in the entire nba in fact. Trading Carter for this guy would be a sick move but I doubt Carter has any value. Also, unlike Carter who struggles finish inside with horrible cold hands, this guys is easily on par with Gafford in terms of finishing once he is close to the rim. Has literally no weakness except the 3pt range.

[TheHrvReport]

Projected him to have Joe Ingles/Dario Saric level of success in the NBA. ie. starters but not all-stars.

To be fair here, literally this entire draft from top to bottom has no clear all star talents in it. There is no for sure thing in this draft. Every player in the lottery will need to heavily develop in the NBA if they're going to be a star. That's why it's a must we select a prospect that has shown significant improvement recently, workaholic, high basketball IQ, has a high ceiling and we believe can heavily advance his game at the next level.

Every draft has their gems and this draft is no exception.

That's true, everyone has their flaws so it comes down to whose work ethic do you bet on? My pick is Okoro. I would bet on him fixing that jump shot but it will take some time.

[PlayerUp]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Okongwu's stock rising with the success Bam is having in these playoffs. I don't see the comp as close as many people do and think people just really want to see the next Bam in OO, but the comp could certainly help him.

While I have been completely against taking another bigman, Okongwu is maybe one of the safer picks in the Top 8. He is poised to be a solid NBA player.

[PlayerUp]

Projected him to have Joe Ingles/Dario Saric level of success in the NBA. ie. starters but not all-stars.

To be fair here, literally this entire draft from top to bottom has no clear all star talents in it. There is no for sure thing in this draft. Every player in the lottery will need to heavily develop in the NBA if they're going to be a star. That's why it's a must we select a prospect that has shown significant improvement recently, workaholic, high basketball IQ, has a high ceiling and we believe can heavily advance his game at the next level.

Every draft has their gems and this draft is no exception.

That's true, everyone has their flaws so it comes down to whose work ethic do you bet on? My pick is Okoro. I would bet on him fixing that jump shot but it will take some time.

Well if he can come into predraft workouts and show he has already improved immensely on offense, I would be on board with Okoro at #4. Until that happens, I wouldn't gamble on Okoro because it's more likely than not he will never be that sufficient on offense in the NBA. See Stanley Johnson and Justise Winslow as examples of what Okoro could end up being if he doesn't develop an offensive game.

[PlayerUp]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Okongwu's stock rising with the success Bam is having in these playoffs. I don't see the comp as close as many people do and think people just really want to see the next Bam in OO, but the comp could certainly help him.

He is bam 2.0 unlike Carter who has no lift at all. Just look at his fluidity, athleticism, and the ability to play bigger than his size.
Screams Draymond, Bam to me. Nobody is like him in the entire nba in fact. Trading Carter for this guy would be a sick move but I doubt Carter has any value. Also, unlike Carter who struggles finish inside with horrible cold hands, this guys is easily on par with Gafford in terms of finishing once he is close to the rim. Has literally no weakness except the 3pt range.

I'd be okay with Okongwu at #4 especially if he comes into predraft workouts with an improved offensive game. You could swing Carter for a mid 1st round pick potentially and take someone like Kira Lewis Jr?

Marc Eversley however was reportedly high on Wendell Carter so it doesn't sound like we're going to be moving Carter.

Bam
Wingspan is 7-2 3/4
Standing reach: 9 feet
Height: 2.06m

Okongwu
Wingspan is 7-2 (USC Entry)
Standing reach: N/A
Height: 2.06m

Wendell
Wingspan is 7'4.5
Standing reach: 9'1
Height: 2.06m

[Jvaughn]

We have 0 clue how good Hayes can be at the next level. It's anyones guess.

What we do know is he is one of the youngest in this draft and has some solid skillsets already.

- Great footwork
- Step back shot
- Good form
- Good passing/vision
- Good pacing
- Can create
- Versatile player
- Good size for a point guard

The cons

- He isn't super athletic
- Lacks that speed burst
- Left hand dominant
- Needs to continue working on his handles and turnovers

Overall Hayes has alot of good skillsets. I think alot are turned off simply because there isn't anything flashy about him. Since Edwards/Ball expected to be gone, he is currently #4 on my list after Deni.

I think most are just running with the narrative that this is a weak draft and as such they target guys who are not as flashy as they want them to be and hammer down on the negatives.
Every player in every draft is flawed.

Luka was knocked for athletic ability and build, Zion was knocked for his body type and style of play. Finding the right player for your team matters more than anything else.

Luka has extreme speed burst and can change pace easily tho. Hayes is neither athletic like a Westbrook type nor has a decent first step to be the leagues top pg.

Luka has extreme speed burst??? Since when? He's still below average athletically, but he's crafty, and you have to guard him straight up because of his shot.

[PlayerUp]

Are you guys cool with th draft being pushed back to November 18? That seems unnecessary to me. They should’ve kept the October 16. Also will there be something comparable to summer league will rookies get to play get game experience?

Gives us more time to workout, interview these prospects which I think we need this draft. Also more time to work trades.

[gobullschi]

Thoughts on Patrick Williams? Obviously not at 4, but if the Bulls traded down or somehow added another lottery pick, he seems like a good fit on paper.

*Just turned 19
*Athletic 6’8” SF
*Elite defender
*80% free throw

I’ve seen a few Khawhi Leonard comparisons. That comparison always makes me cringe. Anyone see him play?

[PlayerUp]

I’ve seen a few Khawhi Leonard comparisons.

Any potential 3-D wing is considered Kawhi 2.0 these days.

Pat Williams is coming out too early. He is really undeveloped. Ceiling is nice but should go somewhere between #12-#24. He could be a hidden gem later in the draft much like many of these prospects. I wouldn't bother with him. It's a huge gamble and likely won't pay off.

[Grodoboldo]

Thoughts on Patrick Williams? Obviously not at 4, but if the Bulls traded down or somehow added another lottery pick, he seems like a good fit on paper.

*Just turned 19
*Athletic 6’8” SF
*Elite defender
*80% free throw

I’ve seen a few Khawhi Leonard comparisons. That comparison always makes me cringe. Anyone see him play?

Love the guy!!! Would seriously contemplate picking him with another mid-first if Nesmith was gone.

[gobullschi]

I’ve seen a few Khawhi Leonard comparisons.

Any potential 3-D wing is considered Kawhi 2.0 these days.

Pat Williams is coming out too early. He is really undeveloped. Ceiling is nice but should go somewhere between #12-#24. He could be a hidden gem later in the draft much like many of these prospects. I wouldn't bother with him. It's a huge gamble and likely won't pay off.

Seriously, these Kawhi/Jimmy Butler comparisons need to stop!

I was thinking if the Bulls are able to add another 1st, he would be a good developmental target behind OPJ. Was curious how he compared to Deni... both guys seem like raw forwards with good size.

[JohnnyTapwater]

Duncan Robinson is such a weapon --- The more I see him --- The more I wonder why Nesmith couldn't do the same thing...