Complete Rose/Williams to Boozer Pick and Roll Tutorial

[alucryts]

I did like Kurt Thomas' solid screens though. They seemed to free up Rose more than Boozer's screens.

Additionally, going through with the pick of course presents the 'pop' opportunity, and of course KT liked that more than trying to roll and finish.

But if Boozer can't quite finish like he used to, or just not finish over Noah's man always being around, then presenting himself with the pop option more would seem a good choice to have.

I agree. Simply showing a screen and roll for Rose brings the instant double team....it is uncanny. The Bulls used this to their advantage against the Lakers very well.

[alucryts]

I was watching the screen and roles from the Miami series where Rose took the shot himself. Oh my god......he made so many poor decisions. 3 out of every 4 shots were supposed to be a pass. Overall though, I saw what Miami was doing on defense. They were all running to the paint off of transition regardless of where their assignment was. Because of this, either Boozer or Taj were left WIDE open for mid range jump shots constantly. It seemed to me like every time there was a screen and roll, Rose tried a shot regardless of the presence of a double team or not. He even tried screen and rolls where there were two defenders waiting on both sides of the paint away from their assignments completely to stop Rose. His decision making sucked versus Miami in the pick and roll. We all knew this before, but my god is it obvious now. Rose had all 5 Heat players packed into the paint at all times; he should have been working to get those open jump shots for Deng, Taj, and Boozer.

[Rerisen]

I think Rose saw all the same mistakes you did based on his comments (nevermind that most of his teammates sucked actually making those shots - he still had to keep passing).

Probably doesn't help that MJ called/texted him during the series IIRC and told him to basically go Rambo on the Heat.

But those mistakes are probably why he came out this year so intent on running the game via his passing. Well he sees now that isn't the whole answer either. He has a heck of a tough role.

[alucryts]

I think Rose saw all the same mistakes you did based on his comments (nevermind that most of his teammates sucked actually making those shots - he still had to keep passing).

Probably doesn't help that MJ called/texted him during the series and told him to basically go Rambo on the Heat.

But those mistakes are probably why he came out this year so intent on running the game via his passing. Well he sees now that isn't the whole answer either. He has a heck of a tough role.

I agree. If I can see them, I'm sure as hell positive he saw them and more. I'd also like to add that most of the "screens" set for him were complete horesh**. Boozer and Omer were the only ones that consistently set screens worth a damn and able to create a play. Rose was definitely not the only one with something to improve there. There was one were Noah came up to screen; before Noah even showed up to screen Bosh was already in Rose's face hedging .

[MGB8]

One way to deal with the Noah-Boozer packing problem on the pick and roll would be to have Noah pick for Deng or Rip, off ball, at the exact same moment that Rose and Boozer run the P&R. It's tricky timing (but not that tricky), but it but's Noah's defender in a bad spot - leave an easy 2 open by not switching, or clear the lane to follow.

[alucryts]

One way to deal with the Noah-Boozer packing problem on the pick and roll would be to have Noah pick for Deng or Rip, off ball, at the exact same moment that Rose and Boozer run the P&R. It's tricky timing (but not that tricky), but it but's Noah's defender in a bad spot - leave an easy 2 open by not switching, or clear the lane to follow.

That is another option. If the pick and roll is run in the mid range area however, the help defense will have zero time to rotate and help on Boozer.

Just for kicks and giggles, I sent this email to Sam Smith:

I was watching some video on Synergy Sports to compare Utah's pick and roll with Boozer to Chicago's. The one thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me is that we rarely (if ever) run anything but a high pick and roll where the screener jogs out to the three point line to set the screen. In Utah, Boozer seemed to absolutely thrive when the pick and roll was run from approximately a free throw line depth. Another feature was that Boozer set a screen approximately 5 feet off of the on ball defender so that Deron Williams could run his man into the screen Boozer was setting around the elbow. When this happened and Boozer rolled, Boozer was able to destroy defenses and use his quickness to score before the defense could react. With the high screen and roll we always run, we are confining him to pick and pop jump shots and post ups; he excels at neither of these. Also, rolling from the 3-point line simply is not an option as the defense has far too much time to rotate and force him to shoot. Why doesn't our offense incorporate more pick and roll in the mid range as it was absolutely lethal in Utah?

I'll let you know if he replies with anything interesting.

[MGB8]

Noah's off-ball pick would have to be "placed" respective to where the P&R was being run. More importantly, Boozer and Rose would have to watch the results of that while executing, either for the Rose pass to Rip/Deng, or, much more often, Boozer sending the extra pass past the collapsing help defense to the (presumably open due to Noah pick) Deng/Rip.

Great thread, btw.

[alucryts]

Noah's off-ball pick would have to be "placed" respective to where the P&R was being run. More importantly, Boozer and Rose would have to watch the results of that while executing, either for the Rose pass to Rip/Deng, or, much more often, Boozer sending the extra pass past the collapsing help defense to the (presumably open due to Noah pick) Deng/Rip.

Great thread, btw.

I don't think there is much we can do about Noah's defender sagging off of him besides quick hitting pnr's off of transition. I think that the only way to negate the center's defender in our system is to simply give that player less time to rotate and get in front of Boozer. When we've simply moved Boozer and Rose in towards the basket for their pnr, Boozer has been wildly successful. The problem is that we simply never do it.

I do think Boozer has to look for open perimeter players more off of receiving the pass from a pnr.

[tedwilliams1999]

Hey guys,

I've only played pick-up ball before so I don't know too much about the X's and O's behind offensive strategy. But I have noticed some teams run a variation of the pnr where the 4 and the 5 both come up to each elbow of the free throw line, and wait for the point guard to pick which direction he wants to attack (the 2 and the 3 are both chilling in each corner).

I'm not sure how the spacing works out in this version of the pnr but in my mind it seems pretty good. Once the pg picks one direction, the other big man rolls out to the weak side to set a quick screen for one of the corner guards, and then proceeds to crash the offensive glass.

Any thoughts?

[alucryts]

Hey guys,

I've only played pick-up ball before so I don't know too much about the X's and O's behind offensive strategy. But I have noticed some teams run a variation of the pnr where the 4 and the 5 both come up to each elbow of the free throw line, and wait for the point guard to pick which direction he wants to attack (the 2 and the 3 are both chilling in each corner).

I'm not sure how the spacing works out in this version of the pnr but in my mind it seems pretty good. Once the pg picks one direction, the other big man rolls out to the weak side to set a quick screen for one of the corner guards, and then proceeds to crash the offensive glass.

Any thoughts?

That is called the double high screen essentially. We used it in one of the videos I posted in the other thread (the link is in the second post, the video is the first one). It is a good play.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

One way to deal with the Noah-Boozer packing problem on the pick and roll would be to have Noah pick for Deng or Rip, off ball, at the exact same moment that Rose and Boozer run the P&R. It's tricky timing (but not that tricky), but it but's Noah's defender in a bad spot - leave an easy 2 open by not switching, or clear the lane to follow.

That is another option. If the pick and roll is run in the mid range area however, the help defense will have zero time to rotate and help on Boozer.

Just for kicks and giggles, I sent this email to Sam Smith:

I was watching some video on Synergy Sports to compare Utah's pick and roll with Boozer to Chicago's. The one thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me is that we rarely (if ever) run anything but a high pick and roll where the screener jogs out to the three point line to set the screen. In Utah, Boozer seemed to absolutely thrive when the pick and roll was run from approximately a free throw line depth. Another feature was that Boozer set a screen approximately 5 feet off of the on ball defender so that Deron Williams could run his man into the screen Boozer was setting around the elbow. When this happened and Boozer rolled, Boozer was able to destroy defenses and use his quickness to score before the defense could react. With the high screen and roll we always run, we are confining him to pick and pop jump shots and post ups; he excels at neither of these. Also, rolling from the 3-point line simply is not an option as the defense has far too much time to rotate and force him to shoot. Why doesn't our offense incorporate more pick and roll in the mid range as it was absolutely lethal in Utah?

I'll let you know if he replies with anything interesting.

Can Doug put a word in to Sam Smith to ensure that he reads your e-mail?......It would be an excellent question for Coach Tibbs.

[econn21]

The problem I see with the Bulls P&R is that it's some grand thing that everyone can see coming.

This is so true, it's pathetic!

I guess I just don't understand why we haven't made more of an attempt to run the P&R that Boozer made off so well executing in Utah. I mean, if we were going to go out and grab him in free agency, shouldn't we have realized that we ought to use him the way he has pretty much always been used?

Hopefully this is something that can evolve throughout practicing this season and hopefully over the next offseason. Using the P&R the right way is so potent, especially with a roll man like Boozer, it would be a shame not to use it the right way.

[alucryts]

One way to deal with the Noah-Boozer packing problem on the pick and roll would be to have Noah pick for Deng or Rip, off ball, at the exact same moment that Rose and Boozer run the P&R. It's tricky timing (but not that tricky), but it but's Noah's defender in a bad spot - leave an easy 2 open by not switching, or clear the lane to follow.

That is another option. If the pick and roll is run in the mid range area however, the help defense will have zero time to rotate and help on Boozer.

Just for kicks and giggles, I sent this email to Sam Smith:

I was watching some video on Synergy Sports to compare Utah's pick and roll with Boozer to Chicago's. The one thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me is that we rarely (if ever) run anything but a high pick and roll where the screener jogs out to the three point line to set the screen. In Utah, Boozer seemed to absolutely thrive when the pick and roll was run from approximately a free throw line depth. Another feature was that Boozer set a screen approximately 5 feet off of the on ball defender so that Deron Williams could run his man into the screen Boozer was setting around the elbow. When this happened and Boozer rolled, Boozer was able to destroy defenses and use his quickness to score before the defense could react. With the high screen and roll we always run, we are confining him to pick and pop jump shots and post ups; he excels at neither of these. Also, rolling from the 3-point line simply is not an option as the defense has far too much time to rotate and force him to shoot. Why doesn't our offense incorporate more pick and roll in the mid range as it was absolutely lethal in Utah?

I'll let you know if he replies with anything interesting.

Can Doug put a word in to Sam Smith to ensure that he reads your e-mail?......It would be an excellent question for Coach Tibbs.

Sam Smith answers pretty much every email; he is extremely accessible, and I think that is really awesome of him. I already got a response:

i think you make a valid point, though i am not the coach

Unless Thibs has an email, I seriously doubt this question would ever get posed to him. I think this would be an AWESOME question for someone like Sheron Shabazz to ask some of the players in the interviews he does. If one of them could pose this question, I would be REALLY interested to hear an answer to this. The question could be as simple as:

"In Utah, Carlos thrived when pick and rolls were set in the mid range area. Here in Chicago, all we run are high pick and rolls at the three point line which force Boozer to become a jump shooter. Why don't we run pick and rolls closer to the basket to really utilize Carlos' true strengths?"

[TheAdmiral]

Whoa Sam, you went out of your way to give such an insightful response.

[kyrv]

I think Rose saw all the same mistakes you did based on his comments (nevermind that most of his teammates sucked actually making those shots - he still had to keep passing).

Probably doesn't help that MJ called/texted him during the series IIRC and told him to basically go Rambo on the Heat.

But those mistakes are probably why he came out this year so intent on running the game via his passing. Well he sees now that isn't the whole answer either. He has a heck of a tough role.

Good comments. It's very good such a young player is willing to look at the film and not be defensive but rather, what can we do better to maybe beat them.

[alucryts]

Whoa Sam, you went out of your way to give such an insightful response.

You can't really blame him. I would rather a quick answer to most emails than pointlessly sending in email after email hoping for a response. It is nice of him to read through what I assume is the mountain of emails he gets.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Whoa Sam, you went out of your way to give such an insightful response.

You can't really blame him. I would rather a quick answer to most emails than pointlessly sending in email after email hoping for a response. It is nice of him to read through what I assume is the mountain of emails he gets.

Maybe he was just trying to throw you off of the scent because he didn't want you to know that he immediately began calling around in search of an answer, while claiming to be the sole individual that became aware of this problem because HE actually spent time doing the work that YOU actually did .

[alucryts]

Whoa Sam, you went out of your way to give such an insightful response.

You can't really blame him. I would rather a quick answer to most emails than pointlessly sending in email after email hoping for a response. It is nice of him to read through what I assume is the mountain of emails he gets.

Maybe he was just trying to throw you off of the scent because he didn't want you to know that he immediately began calling around in search of an answer, while claiming to be the sole individual that became aware of this problem because HE actually spent time doing the work that YOU actually did .

ITS A CONSPIRACY MAAAAAAN!!! Honestly I wouldn't care if anyone took this and passed it on for answers claiming it to be their own idea. My goal is to really understand why we don't do it over getting credit for anything.

I sent him a reply

I appreciate the response. I think this would be a great interview/q&a question to pose to Thibs or one of the coaches to get their response. To me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that we pick up one of the best pick and roll men the NBA has ever seen in Boozer and not even attempt to run the plays that made him lethal. It's like hiring a plumber to redo the roof of your house. If there was any way to pose this question on to one of the coaches, I (and a lot of members at RealGM) would be extremely interested in the answer.

[alucryts]

I saw this from Friedell

Thibs and Rose have talked about getting Boozer in more pick and pop sets, but up to this point, we haven't seen many of them. Boozer seems most confident in that fadeaway jumper.

Maybe I was wrong to say Thibs probably knows all of this. Why on Earth are we even thinking about making Boozer a pick and pop shooter? Is it because he lost athleticism and they don't think he can finish in the paint? Is it because they don't think the pick and roll can work with Noah in the lineup?

As it is every time Noah comes up for the screen, I can guarantee you that it is going to be a Rose drive to the hole. The only point of bringing Noah for a screen is to get him out of the paint. This offense needs a go to move that is something other than Rose. My mind is absolutely blown how that go to move isn't a Rose and Boozer pick and roll....it is insane that it isn't at this point unless there is something big we don't know.

[Irregular]

So you are telling us that Rose is not a good a passer as Williams?

Problem with Boozer he's an undersized PF and he does not get the ball where he needs it to be he will shoot that fadeaway shot.