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PG - The bum slayers

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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#61 » by coldfish » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:49 pm

Louri wrote:Lauri didn’t stand in corner 24/7 and Lavine shot many mid-range shots. Win. Boylen is loosing it?


The whole organization, from ownership to the players, is trying to figure out how to play offense in this era. Its kind of sad. You can just feel the confusion about how to apply analytics. They definitely over-applied them to start this year. Hopefully they start learning.

As a part of this, the offense is a mess. I am regularly seeing them trying new sets and tweak things. While its nice that they are trying something else, that isn't winning basketball. You win by having a good system and then executing it well. The Bulls clearly don't believe in their own system, let alone execute it well.

When you go back to last year, the system kind of stunk but it was simple and players were executing it so they got results. I don't have the skill to do this but I would love to videotape a game and break down the offense for people here. The number of times I see players who are clearly confused about where they are supposed to be or go is astounding. Its amateurish.
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#62 » by Am2626 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:50 pm

Ice Man wrote:The Wolves are 9-18 when KAT has played this season. Not his fault, he is a very good player, but that is not a good team, and it is not contending for any playoff slot, even in a year when the West has weakened.


KAT is a great offensive player but defensively he is bad. This is a game where Felicio had 12 points and a double double.
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#63 » by SfBull » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:54 pm

PrimzyBulls81 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Read on Twitter


:lol:

Couldn't watch the game so won't say nothing about it.But this Boylen's comparison was utterly
ridiculous.
And reading the box score, Felicio with 12/10?
Really?
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#64 » by Ice Man » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:00 pm

Am2626 wrote:
Ice Man wrote:The Wolves are 9-18 when KAT has played this season. Not his fault, he is a very good player, but that is not a good team, and it is not contending for any playoff slot, even in a year when the West has weakened.


KAT is a great offensive player but defensively he is bad. This is a game where Felicio had 12 points and a double double.


Such is KAT. As I wrote elsewhere, he scores enough to be a very good player. He would need to improve his game to be the best player on a title contender, but that's a different matter. He is not at that level and may well never be.
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#65 » by PaKii94 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:04 pm

coldfish wrote:
Louri wrote:Lauri didn’t stand in corner 24/7 and Lavine shot many mid-range shots. Win. Boylen is loosing it?


The whole organization, from ownership to the players, is trying to figure out how to play offense in this era. Its kind of sad. You can just feel the confusion about how to apply analytics. They definitely over-applied them to start this year. Hopefully they start learning.

As a part of this, the offense is a mess. I am regularly seeing them trying new sets and tweak things. While its nice that they are trying something else, that isn't winning basketball. You win by having a good system and then executing it well. The Bulls clearly don't believe in their own system, let alone execute it well.

When you go back to last year, the system kind of stunk but it was simple and players were executing it so they got results. I don't have the skill to do this but I would love to videotape a game and break down the offense for people here. The number of times I see players who are clearly confused about where they are supposed to be or go is astounding. Its amateurish.



Agreed. I think it's also hurting Lavine's game because he always hesitates/pump fakes before pulling a shot because your can see him trying to figure out the right play. But by that time the defender closes in and Zach then has to take a tough shot. If he's open, he just needs to let it fly
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#66 » by mtron32 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:03 pm

dumbell78 wrote:
PrimzyBulls81 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Read on Twitter


:lol:


This is truly the most embarrassment I have encountered as a Bulls fan. It's off the charts stupid.

It was right up until he cupped the opposing coaches neck and whispered in his ear after the game
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#67 » by Stratmaster » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:08 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
kodo wrote:
FriedRise wrote:Also can’t agree with the PG thread title. At this point, any win is a good win considering we’re down two starters and have to play our third AND fourth string Cs 48 combined minutes.

If anything, tonight was an embarrassing loss for Minny given they’re fully healthy.


Agreed, a 22 win team from last season missing 2 starters and their best big bench player with what most call the worst coach in the league is supposed to have an easy win?

Minny's record is this bad because Towns missed almost all of Dec and half of January. They had a winning record in Oct/Nov. They're a borderline playoff team when full strength like they were
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I'd like to take credit, but this wasn't my post. Something happened with my edits when i responded
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#68 » by ChettheJet » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:31 pm

Yes they can beat the below 500 teams more often than not. This game was for all the 'fans' that want to trade everybody. Without their first and second string centers Townes goes off but they still manage to win the game. I would like to see exactly what this team would look like with everybody healthy. If Porter was able to play 24 minutes with Hutchison behind him, Markkanen just being consistent with Young coming in. Dunn, Lavine with White and Satoransky off the bench and Carter and Gafford in the middle.

Then if Young wants out they could see what they could get for him and not just take a half year of Harkless.
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#69 » by Hangtime84 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:35 pm

Ccwatercraft wrote:felicio looked surprisingly good, give him a 3 ball and I'll **** my pants.


He was shooting and making them during his dleague tour
Jcool0 wrote:
aguifs wrote:Do we have a friggin plan?


If the Bulls do, you would be complaining to much to ever hear it.


NBA fan logic we need to trade one of two best players because (Player X) one needs to shine more.
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#70 » by MrSparkle » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:47 pm

Hangtime84 wrote:
Ccwatercraft wrote:felicio looked surprisingly good, give him a 3 ball and I'll **** my pants.


He was shooting and making them during his dleague tour


Giving him 4y guaranteed was one of the dumbest things this dumb FO has done, but hard to deny Felicio doesn’t have high-ceiling raw talent. He moves gracefully for his gigantic size, and seemingly has soft hands - catches better than Wendell and Gafford, to be honest.

But he’s out of shape and clearly has not approached his job seriously. And the FO bid against itself in a giant overpay for an undrafted backup C with way less skill and athleticism than the elite prospects.

Anyway, I’m glad Boylen decided to play him. I don’t see the harm in having him get in shape on the court, since the team is losing anyway.
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#71 » by Indomitable » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:51 pm

mtron32 wrote:
dumbell78 wrote:
PrimzyBulls81 wrote:
:lol:


This is truly the most embarrassment I have encountered as a Bulls fan. It's off the charts stupid.

It was right up until he cupped the opposing coaches neck and whispered in his ear after the game

Why he actually might have that type of relationship with him. I suspect Sanders could have objected.
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#72 » by FriedRise » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:11 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#73 » by wolffy » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:38 pm

FriedRise wrote:
Read on Twitter


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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#74 » by rtblues » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:45 pm

Mentioning Hutchison and Pippen in the same post makes my head hurt.
Please stop...
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#75 » by Ice Man » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:48 pm

FriedRise wrote:
Read on Twitter


Well ... uh yeah. This shouldn't be news to anybody in the Bulls organization. Not to any of the players, or coaches, or training staff, or administrators, or even the help desk.
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#76 » by MrSparkle » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:50 pm

coldfish wrote:
Louri wrote:Lauri didn’t stand in corner 24/7 and Lavine shot many mid-range shots. Win. Boylen is loosing it?


The whole organization, from ownership to the players, is trying to figure out how to play offense in this era. Its kind of sad. You can just feel the confusion about how to apply analytics. They definitely over-applied them to start this year. Hopefully they start learning.

As a part of this, the offense is a mess. I am regularly seeing them trying new sets and tweak things. While its nice that they are trying something else, that isn't winning basketball. You win by having a good system and then executing it well. The Bulls clearly don't believe in their own system, let alone execute it well.

When you go back to last year, the system kind of stunk but it was simple and players were executing it so they got results. I don't have the skill to do this but I would love to videotape a game and break down the offense for people here. The number of times I see players who are clearly confused about where they are supposed to be or go is astounding. Its amateurish.


The really frustrating thing is that while you can pick apart this teams’ athleticism, speed and length... these are all relatively high IQ and/or extremely coachable players with great attitudes.

Further compounded by having many PGs on the floor at once, who while they’re not good players (Sato, Arci, Dunn) are by nature the “highest IQ” types of players in the game.

It’s been mind-boggling to me that running a system has been this roster’s biggest problem. I understand that Coby and Zach can shoot bad shots, but these aren’t knuckleheads trying to get theirs.

Last I checked... Jabari, Bobby and Payne are off the team.

I thought Hoiberg was the worst coach since VDN and Floyd, but I have no doubt in my mind that Boylen is equally bad if not worse in some regards... because I actually think a hands-off autonomy in players might actually benefit their careers more than being jerked out funky systems and positional assignments that make you over-think and shoot career low percentages and burn your legs out on defense.

Learning experiences? Sure. But some other team will benefit from these players when they leave after their value and confidence plummeted. If the Bulls want to be a G-League Development team, then have at it. The Windy City Bulls exist, after all. At the United Center, you should be winning games or tanking, not trying hard and losing, the dreaded in-between.

Boylen might be the world’s greatest G-League coach. Get the undisciplined or fringe chippers to play elite aggressive defense. But this Bulls team needs to maximize his players’ offensive strengths. Besides Zach going iso, it’s been the opposite.
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#77 » by Indomitable » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:17 pm

Dominater wrote:Robert Horry was a super sub. Luke Kornet is a super scrub

Horry in Houston was the 2nd best player. He was compared to Pippen back then.
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#78 » by dice » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:20 pm

League Circles wrote:
dice wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Read on Twitter

the rare good excuse for a team to simply walk off the floor before the final buzzer

Why? I don't understand the dismay. It's not like Boylen went out and did a 360 dunk. He believes in using that scenario as a teaching moment for his young, dumb team. I fail to see why it's so egregious.

he's wasting the time of millions of people to teach his team a lesson that could just as easily be taught in the locker room minutes later. they may be young and dumb, but they're not dogs who need to be taught their lesson immediately after having done wrong
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#79 » by dice » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:21 pm

Indomitable wrote:
Dominater wrote:Robert Horry was a super sub. Luke Kornet is a super scrub

Horry in Houston was the 2nd best player. He was compared to Pippen back then.

errr...no, no he wasn't. not by any significant number of people anyway. he was probably their third best player behind otis thorpe in his first couple of seasons, then drexler arrived. horry was an excellent defensive role player, smart and competent offensively, who earned his nickname as a clutch shot maker. but he could not run an offense or lead a team like scottie proved he could

horry's career was more comparable to horace grant then pippen. and even the horace comparison is only valid because of the clutch shots and because he sustained his career into his 30s better than horace did
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Re: PG - The bum slayers 

Post#80 » by FranchisePlayer » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:27 pm

FriedRise wrote:
Read on Twitter


That's good. Give the old middle finger to Boylen, he's deserved it!

#gofinnisher
MrSparkle wrote:I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile.

12/2/2022
I like the quote- it makes me chuckle. And it was/is pretty much true.

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