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Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine

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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#61 » by meekrab » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:31 am

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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#62 » by pipfan » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:47 am

I would think about it, if we moved up with our pick and AK likes Edwards

We could
-get a lottery pick for Lavine, and another asset
-free up cash (for JR), cap space (to swallow bad deals and get more assets)
-get in the top 6 in the next 2 drafts, which both should be loaded
-build around White, Lauri, Edwards, Carter, Gafford, Hutch
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#63 » by League Circles » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:45 pm

Lavine isn't great but given his age, ability, production, contract, attitude and possible contraction of cap space due to the economy, I think a beneficial trade is unlikely.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#64 » by League Circles » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:09 pm

Lavine is the kind of player that might not become great until he's like 29 years old, when he still has pretty great physical ability but has had many years to improve gradually on decision making and consistency through experience and hopefully good coaching.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#65 » by JohnnyTapwater » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:03 pm

That package better be huge.

Pause.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#66 » by nitetrain8603 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:07 pm

He is a lowkey superstar who has gotten better every year and he's a value contract. You would be stupid to trade him unless you got a haul. The Nets have nothing I'm interested in. LaVert is an okay player, but he's really overhyped. Only package I would take from the Knicks would be 2 of the following 3 - 1st round pick this year, Mitchell Robinson(should've just drafted him), RJ Barrett.

Otherwise, just continue to bottom out with Boylen and hope to position yourself for Bates in a couple of years because the Bulls aren't signing any superstars anytime soon.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#67 » by Jvaughn » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:14 pm

pipfan wrote:I would think about it, if we moved up with our pick and AK likes Edwards

We could
-get a lottery pick for Lavine, and another asset
-free up cash (for JR), cap space (to swallow bad deals and get more assets)
-get in the top 6 in the next 2 drafts, which both should be loaded
-build around White, Lauri, Edwards, Carter, Gafford, Hutch


So how long do we continue to blow up and rebuild. Because that's a lottery team for the foreseeable future. We're getting dangerously close to being the joke the Sixers were.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#68 » by Michael Jackson » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:30 pm

Jvaughn wrote:
pipfan wrote:I would think about it, if we moved up with our pick and AK likes Edwards

We could
-get a lottery pick for Lavine, and another asset
-free up cash (for JR), cap space (to swallow bad deals and get more assets)
-get in the top 6 in the next 2 drafts, which both should be loaded
-build around White, Lauri, Edwards, Carter, Gafford, Hutch


So how long do we continue to blow up and rebuild. Because that's a lottery team for the foreseeable future. We're getting dangerously close to being the joke the Sixers were.



Without the lottery odds in our favor to land a big fish.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#69 » by cjbulls » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:05 pm

And you wonder why deals never get done.... the offers here are already crazy. Barrett and their own FRP? Levert and Dinwiddie?

Zach doesn't have that value for all the negative reasons sprinkled throughout this thread. And I say this as a Zach fan.

Here is a snippet of what the Knicks board is saying (on top of all the "not interested" comments):

"If Chicago is looking to dump salary, I'll take a pick and send them DSJ."
"I’d kick the tires on Zach and Lauri but not be willing to give up too much at the same time (alternatives are there in FA and neither guy is changing the team’s trajectory enough to get too hype on). But Zach and RJ on the wings can work and Mitch, Lauri, Stretch 4 is a nice big man trio for a rotation."
"Like if the deal is Randle, Knox, and 2 1sts, one of them being the Clippers pick this year, is that a bad deal, from a pure asset standpoint? "
"Randle + Dalas picks + 1 player from Knox/Dennis/Frank would be enough? "

The Nets board didn't even bother to discuss it so far, although I just don't think the Nets have fans.

No one on either side is being realistic about what a trade would look like.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#70 » by Jvaughn » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:13 pm

cjbulls wrote:And you wonder why deals never get done.... the offers here are already crazy. Barrett and their own FRP? Levert and Dinwiddie?

Zach doesn't have that value for all the negative reasons sprinkled throughout this thread. And I say this as a Zach fan.

Here is a snippet of what the Knicks board is saying (on top of all the "not interested" comments):

"If Chicago is looking to dump salary, I'll take a pick and send them DSJ."
"I’d kick the tires on Zach and Lauri but not be willing to give up too much at the same time (alternatives are there in FA and neither guy is changing the team’s trajectory enough to get too hype on). But Zach and RJ on the wings can work and Mitch, Lauri, Stretch 4 is a nice big man trio for a rotation."
"Like if the deal is Randle, Knox, and 2 1sts, one of them being the Clippers pick this year, is that a bad deal, from a pure asset standpoint? "
"Randle + Dalas picks + 1 player from Knox/Dennis/Frank would be enough? "

The Nets board didn't even bother to discuss it so far, although I just don't think the Nets have fans.

No one on either side is being realistic about what a trade would look like.


Well Knicks fans are delusional, so that's not really a good example. If they think we'd give up Zach AND a pick for Dennis Smith Jr. who hasn't even managed to secure the starting PG spot in NY, their opinions don't matter.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#71 » by cjbulls » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:32 pm

Jvaughn wrote:
cjbulls wrote:And you wonder why deals never get done.... the offers here are already crazy. Barrett and their own FRP? Levert and Dinwiddie?

Zach doesn't have that value for all the negative reasons sprinkled throughout this thread. And I say this as a Zach fan.

Here is a snippet of what the Knicks board is saying (on top of all the "not interested" comments):

"If Chicago is looking to dump salary, I'll take a pick and send them DSJ."
"I’d kick the tires on Zach and Lauri but not be willing to give up too much at the same time (alternatives are there in FA and neither guy is changing the team’s trajectory enough to get too hype on). But Zach and RJ on the wings can work and Mitch, Lauri, Stretch 4 is a nice big man trio for a rotation."
"Like if the deal is Randle, Knox, and 2 1sts, one of them being the Clippers pick this year, is that a bad deal, from a pure asset standpoint? "
"Randle + Dalas picks + 1 player from Knox/Dennis/Frank would be enough? "

The Nets board didn't even bother to discuss it so far, although I just don't think the Nets have fans.

No one on either side is being realistic about what a trade would look like.


Well Knicks fans are delusional, so that's not really a good example. If they think we'd give up Zach AND a pick for Dennis Smith Jr. who hasn't even managed to secure the starting PG spot in NY, their opinions don't matter.


I agree. But we get pretty close on the other side. Barrett was the #3 pick in the draft and now you're asking for a second top 10 selection (both on rookie contracts) for Zach. Seems almost as delusional to me.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#72 » by Michael Jackson » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:09 pm

cjbulls wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:
cjbulls wrote:And you wonder why deals never get done.... the offers here are already crazy. Barrett and their own FRP? Levert and Dinwiddie?

Zach doesn't have that value for all the negative reasons sprinkled throughout this thread. And I say this as a Zach fan.

Here is a snippet of what the Knicks board is saying (on top of all the "not interested" comments):

"If Chicago is looking to dump salary, I'll take a pick and send them DSJ."
"I’d kick the tires on Zach and Lauri but not be willing to give up too much at the same time (alternatives are there in FA and neither guy is changing the team’s trajectory enough to get too hype on). But Zach and RJ on the wings can work and Mitch, Lauri, Stretch 4 is a nice big man trio for a rotation."
"Like if the deal is Randle, Knox, and 2 1sts, one of them being the Clippers pick this year, is that a bad deal, from a pure asset standpoint? "
"Randle + Dalas picks + 1 player from Knox/Dennis/Frank would be enough? "

The Nets board didn't even bother to discuss it so far, although I just don't think the Nets have fans.

No one on either side is being realistic about what a trade would look like.


Well Knicks fans are delusional, so that's not really a good example. If they think we'd give up Zach AND a pick for Dennis Smith Jr. who hasn't even managed to secure the starting PG spot in NY, their opinions don't matter.


I agree. But we get pretty close on the other side. Barrett was the #3 pick in the draft and now you're asking for a second top 10 selection (both on rookie contracts) for Zach. Seems almost as delusional to me.



RJ is arguably worth more than any pick in this years draft. Going into college was ranked higher than Zion IIRC (it was thought Duke might have the top 3 draft selections going into last season (still 3 top 10 which is wow)). This years draft is not Ja dropping by any means. This is the 2000 draft feeling to it.

That all being said LaVine is a proven commodity at a good value. He is no too 10 team changer but he also isn’t all that far off from a Beal either and with contract considered he is a really really good add for most any team. At the dollars even a team like GS or Houston would find a way to use him. Not saying those guys would be ideal but you get the point. He is a great trade asset right now without a doubt. The problem is we have to downgrade on winning (like we did with Jimmy) unless there is a star who wants out and we can package Zach in a deal with picks WCJ Lauri etc... For the Bulls he is the on,y marketable player and most importantly cheap so he is good ROI and they would be unlikely to deal him. Who makes the Bulls more money OPJ or Zach... Zach for sure. He also costs less so.... he is a way way way way better investment than a Harrison Barnes. So yes he could net something decent for sure if you are patient but at this point unless the player coming in makes you more money (ie a young player who is on a rookie contract who can put butts in the seats) then you don’t trade him.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#73 » by Southpaw » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:22 pm

I like LaVine and I think he can be a great 2nd/3rd option on a contender with some games where he's in the zone he can carry a team to a win but I'd be willing to listen to offers for him. Reason being we currently have no one on the roster who projects to be a superstar / top 15 NBA player who you can build around and he's due for a huge extension soon. If we can flip him for a young prospect, a high lotto pick and some salary maneuverings, I'd be in on it.

I'm intrigued by the idea of the Knicks lotto pick + one of Barret or Robinson + some salary relief, provided that the pick is high enough or you can get your target player with the pick.
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Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#74 » by Paradise » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:27 pm

cjbulls wrote:And you wonder why deals never get done.... the offers here are already crazy. Barrett and their own FRP? Levert and Dinwiddie?

Zach doesn't have that value for all the negative reasons sprinkled throughout this thread. And I say this as a Zach fan.

Here is a snippet of what the Knicks board is saying (on top of all the "not interested" comments):

"If Chicago is looking to dump salary, I'll take a pick and send them DSJ."
"I’d kick the tires on Zach and Lauri but not be willing to give up too much at the same time (alternatives are there in FA and neither guy is changing the team’s trajectory enough to get too hype on). But Zach and RJ on the wings can work and Mitch, Lauri, Stretch 4 is a nice big man trio for a rotation."
"Like if the deal is Randle, Knox, and 2 1sts, one of them being the Clippers pick this year, is that a bad deal, from a pure asset standpoint? "
"Randle + Dalas picks + 1 player from Knox/Dennis/Frank would be enough? "

The Nets board didn't even bother to discuss it so far, although I just don't think the Nets have fans.


No one on either side is being realistic about what a trade would look like.

We have but it’s not much to talk about yet. It’s kind of Beal or bust for us IMO. That’s the only trade worth dealing both Dinwiddie and LeVert plus picks for.

I like Lavine but I’m not sure any deal for him makes sense that gives up Dinwiddie, LeVert, Claxton. Three guys with borderline all-star potential on a team with more touches in Chicago isn’t going to sit well in Brooklyn. It probably would turn into a Melo-NYK situation or Billy King situation. The good thing about him is age and the ability to carry possibly more of the load when KD begins to age.

It would be Dinwiddie/2020 1st/2023 1st/Prince/Kurucs/Musa for the most part as our first offer.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#75 » by drosereturn » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:38 pm

Paradise wrote:
cjbulls wrote:And you wonder why deals never get done.... the offers here are already crazy. Barrett and their own FRP? Levert and Dinwiddie?

Zach doesn't have that value for all the negative reasons sprinkled throughout this thread. And I say this as a Zach fan.

Here is a snippet of what the Knicks board is saying (on top of all the "not interested" comments):

"If Chicago is looking to dump salary, I'll take a pick and send them DSJ."
"I’d kick the tires on Zach and Lauri but not be willing to give up too much at the same time (alternatives are there in FA and neither guy is changing the team’s trajectory enough to get too hype on). But Zach and RJ on the wings can work and Mitch, Lauri, Stretch 4 is a nice big man trio for a rotation."
"Like if the deal is Randle, Knox, and 2 1sts, one of them being the Clippers pick this year, is that a bad deal, from a pure asset standpoint? "
"Randle + Dalas picks + 1 player from Knox/Dennis/Frank would be enough? "

The Nets board didn't even bother to discuss it so far, although I just don't think the Nets have fans.


No one on either side is being realistic about what a trade would look like.

We have but it’s not much to talk about yet. It’s kind of Beal or bust for us IMO. That’s the only trade worth dealing both Dinwiddie and LeVert plus picks for.

I like Lavine but I’m not sure any deal for him makes sense that gives up Dinwiddie, LeVert, Claxton. Three guys with borderline all-star potential on a team with more touches in Chicago isn’t going to sit well in Brooklyn. It probably would turn into a Melo-NYK situation or Billy King situation. The good thing about him is age and the ability to carry possibly more of the load when KD begins to age.

It would be Dinwiddie/2020 1st/2023 1st/Prince/Kurucs/Musa for the most part as our first offer.


What not just end at Din/Levert/garbage guy? you keep your picks and 2 prospects. As much as Din and Levert are great, they dont complement the core which is why Irving said they need to upgrade the parts.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#76 » by drosereturn » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:43 pm

League Circles wrote:Lavine is the kind of player that might not become great until he's like 29 years old, when he still has pretty great physical ability but has had many years to improve gradually on decision making and consistency through experience and hopefully good coaching.


What kind of projection is this? Lavine is the type to rely on athleticism and he will have meltdown like Drose once he tears his ACL.
He is not like CP3 where he gets better as he ages into his 30s. In fact, Lavine is the anti Paul.
He is already 25 yrs old, 6yr veteran and AK already knows this is his ceiling. He will not achieve anything greater than his potential which he had already met. I view him as a final missing piece for a championship team like the Lakers, Clippers but not a championship core.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#77 » by drosereturn » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:47 pm

cjbulls wrote:And you wonder why deals never get done.... the offers here are already crazy. Barrett and their own FRP? Levert and Dinwiddie?

Zach doesn't have that value for all the negative reasons sprinkled throughout this thread. And I say this as a Zach fan.

Here is a snippet of what the Knicks board is saying (on top of all the "not interested" comments):

"If Chicago is looking to dump salary, I'll take a pick and send them DSJ."
"I’d kick the tires on Zach and Lauri but not be willing to give up too much at the same time (alternatives are there in FA and neither guy is changing the team’s trajectory enough to get too hype on). But Zach and RJ on the wings can work and Mitch, Lauri, Stretch 4 is a nice big man trio for a rotation."
"Like if the deal is Randle, Knox, and 2 1sts, one of them being the Clippers pick this year, is that a bad deal, from a pure asset standpoint? "
"Randle + Dalas picks + 1 player from Knox/Dennis/Frank would be enough? "

The Nets board didn't even bother to discuss it so far, although I just don't think the Nets have fans.

No one on either side is being realistic about what a trade would look like.


Theres all kinds of homers in every team but Knicks are little bit notorious wouldnt take them seriously.
Would also ignore people saying wanting RJ+pick, Robinson because they are clear homers. Just keep it to yourself and talk to your friends, co workers.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#78 » by dougthonus » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:52 pm

MikeDC wrote:It's obvious why the Nets would be interested. Zach would make a nearly ideal fit as a 3rd option with Durant and KD. However, there's really nothing we should want from the Nets. Their pick won't be worth Zach by himself.


Not sure that's really true. Irving is a poor defender and KD coming back from an achilles will likely also be a poor defender. Both those guys can shoot and create their own shots, so I don't know that you need even more of that ability. I think they'd need a 3&D guy a lot more than a volume scorer.

The players they can offer back aren't obviously better, or they wouldn't be open to trading them for Zach. Like, Levert is a lesser player making almost as much as what Zach makes. So that's not a very sensible trade for us. I like Dinwiddie, but he's likewise not a going who's going to change our fortunes.

Point is, the best case scenario of trading with the Nets is we trade a dime for two nickels.


I generally agree, but I could see if they felt Zach was just a bad apple, maybe two nickels is better in their view.

The Knicks are another story. They've assuming they're in the top 3 of the draft, that could be Ball/Edwards/Wiseman/Hayes. A potential difference-making player. But not a sure thing, so I'd ask for more as well. If the pick isn't going to be Wiseman, the obvious diamond in the rough on the Knicks roster is Mitchell Robinson. If we turned Zach into Hayes and Robinson I'd be really happy.


I doubt you'd get the Knicks pick, let alone more, for LaVine. I do think if you traded Zach to the Knicks that future 1st rounders might be amenable if they were unprotected or super lightly protected.

If you think the Bulls need to basically refresh the roster, then moving LaVine for the best package you can get with picks is a somewhat reasonable approach.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#79 » by dougthonus » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:53 pm

Jvaughn wrote:Knicks odds for lottery are barely better than ours, and this isn't really that attractive of a draft for that type of move.


I agree, this isn't a draft I'd want to load up in, but I think you're also thinking a lot more highly of Zach's value around the league than what it is. Think of what prime Kevin Martin would have gotten you in a trade. That's where Zach is. Guy who can score, not defend, and not do much else.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#80 » by sco » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:38 pm

Paradise wrote:
cjbulls wrote:And you wonder why deals never get done.... the offers here are already crazy. Barrett and their own FRP? Levert and Dinwiddie?

Zach doesn't have that value for all the negative reasons sprinkled throughout this thread. And I say this as a Zach fan.

Here is a snippet of what the Knicks board is saying (on top of all the "not interested" comments):

"If Chicago is looking to dump salary, I'll take a pick and send them DSJ."
"I’d kick the tires on Zach and Lauri but not be willing to give up too much at the same time (alternatives are there in FA and neither guy is changing the team’s trajectory enough to get too hype on). But Zach and RJ on the wings can work and Mitch, Lauri, Stretch 4 is a nice big man trio for a rotation."
"Like if the deal is Randle, Knox, and 2 1sts, one of them being the Clippers pick this year, is that a bad deal, from a pure asset standpoint? "
"Randle + Dalas picks + 1 player from Knox/Dennis/Frank would be enough? "

The Nets board didn't even bother to discuss it so far, although I just don't think the Nets have fans.


No one on either side is being realistic about what a trade would look like.

We have but it’s not much to talk about yet. It’s kind of Beal or bust for us IMO. That’s the only trade worth dealing both Dinwiddie and LeVert plus picks for.

I like Lavine but I’m not sure any deal for him makes sense that gives up Dinwiddie, LeVert, Claxton. Three guys with borderline all-star potential on a team with more touches in Chicago isn’t going to sit well in Brooklyn. It probably would turn into a Melo-NYK situation or Billy King situation. The good thing about him is age and the ability to carry possibly more of the load when KD begins to age.

It would be Dinwiddie/2020 1st/2023 1st/Prince/Kurucs/Musa for the most part as our first offer.

There isn't much to like in that offer. Thanks though.
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