2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th!

[Andi Obst]

I'm speaking on the spur of the moment here, but I think Poku might be worth considering at 7...

[Jvaughn]

Now, this wasn't based on any actual rumors, but Bleacher Report just posted their trade ideas for every lottery team. One of the ideas they raised if Phoenix got the top pick was for them to trade us the pick plus Ty Jerome and Frank Kaminsky for Lauri and our first round pick. I'm not even sure Phoneix would do that, but I'd jump on that deal.

[Grodoboldo]

Now, this wasn't based on any actual rumors, but Bleacher Report just posted their trade ideas for every lottery team. One of the ideas they raised if Phoenix got the top pick was for them to trade us the pick plus Ty Jerome and Frank Kaminsky for Lauri and our first round pick. I'm not even sure Phoneix would do that, but I'd jump on that deal.

I don't know, man. That's the stuff you do when you think a sure fire prospect is available, which I don't think is the case this year.
I'd do something centered around Lauri for their pick if they stay put on the lottery, though.

[CoreyVillains]

Just dropped my Aaron Nesmith breakdown. Dude is a sniper. 52% on over 8 attempts a game this season (14 games played). Brilliant off movement shooter with good size and length. Good team defender and average on ball. Hard to see him not being really productive.

Watch on YouTube

[Dresden]

Tyrese Halliburton would not be a bad pick for us. He may not have star potential, but he does a lot of things well, and fills a big need for a PG who can make plays for others. In fact that's probably the thing he does best. But he can also defend, had 2.5 steals per game, rebounds very well for a pg due to his size, has shot very well from 3- he checks most of the boxes. He needs to bulk up, and he's not a great iso scorer, and his release is a little slow. Plus he's from Iowa State, which has not done much to help the Bulls.

If he's still on the table when we pick, I would not mind one bit if we took a chance on him.

[drosereturn]

I really don’t see the appeal of Okoro at 7. His defense is tauter as his calling card, but is it better than Vassel, an excellent shooter with better size? I understand he’s a good athlete, but among NBA wings I don’t think he really stands out in that regard. Also get the sense he will measure about 6’5. He’s probably the player that would excite me the least.

im not content with Vassell. Def going to give up if they get Okoro. Literally nobody you want him to be Kawhi.
Literally does nothing well skill wise. I dont think he even has a surprise factor like Lauri proved everyone wrong.

Its either Deni, Hali, Okongwu, Toppin which are all good players in this range or I am trading down for Bostons 3 picks.

[drosereturn]

I'm speaking on the spur of the moment here, but I think Poku might be worth considering at 7...

As much as I think he has the highest ceiling, no at 7. He is not going to picked in this range, so its better to buy him cheap which is why AK has been one of the greatest value drafters getting studs in teens or even 40s.
The Bulls really need to get rid of scrubs which is like one third of the roster and replace them with these potential players.

Wouldnt mind dealing no-long term core players in WCJ, Hutch and draft like 5 players that can be starters.
Yeah its terrible to develop that many players at once with Lavine still figuring out, but its better than having a rotten core.

[LateNight]

I am very intrigued by Vassell and Nesmeth. They might be my favs right now.

Also really liked what I saw from Isiaha Mike. Seems to have a lot of potential as a roleplayer.

[TheSuzerain]

Do people not realize how abysmal this team is in terms of passing/playmaking?

What's the appeal of adding a perimeter player who can't do much of anything other than catch/shoot? Seems like lipstick on a pig.

Give me Haliburton or Hayes. We need to change the offensive identity of this team, and that involves new primary and secondary playmakers.

[Jvaughn]

Now, this wasn't based on any actual rumors, but Bleacher Report just posted their trade ideas for every lottery team. One of the ideas they raised if Phoenix got the top pick was for them to trade us the pick plus Ty Jerome and Frank Kaminsky for Lauri and our first round pick. I'm not even sure Phoneix would do that, but I'd jump on that deal.

I don't know, man. That's the stuff you do when you think a sure fire prospect is available, which I don't think is the case this year.
I'd do something centered around Lauri for their pick if they stay put on the lottery, though.

Well for me, I'm not a big Lauri fan, so I don't have any issue with trading him away. I'd much rather a Deni, Hayes, Wiseman or even Ball in his place.

[PaKii94]

Do people not realize how abysmal this team is in terms of passing/playmaking?

What's the appeal of adding a perimeter player who can't do much of anything other than catch/shoot? Seems like lipstick on a pig.

Give me Haliburton or Hayes. We need to change the offensive identity of this team, and that involves new primary and secondary playmakers.

The other way to look at the lack of playmaking is maybe we need a vet for that instead of throwing a rookie (from a weak draft) into the fire to lead the team.

I wouldn't mind Hali, no to hayes, he looks very mediocre

[PaKii94]

Vassell is my guy then Wiseman, deni. I am half hoping we don't move up so we aren't cornered into taking ball/edwards/hayes

[Grodoboldo]

Do people not realize how abysmal this team is in terms of passing/playmaking?

What's the appeal of adding a perimeter player who can't do much of anything other than catch/shoot? Seems like lipstick on a pig.

Give me Haliburton or Hayes. We need to change the offensive identity of this team, and that involves new primary and secondary playmakers.

This team is abysmal PERIOD. We need talent, the most we can get. I hope we can get a playmaker, but I'm not sure we'll be able to do it depending on the lottery results.
Having said that, I'm more optimistic in Nesmith developing a handle than Ball developing a shot, at least right now, but I do agree that ball handling and creation are scarcer than shooting.

[TheSuzerain]

Do people not realize how abysmal this team is in terms of passing/playmaking?

What's the appeal of adding a perimeter player who can't do much of anything other than catch/shoot? Seems like lipstick on a pig.

Give me Haliburton or Hayes. We need to change the offensive identity of this team, and that involves new primary and secondary playmakers.

The other way to look at the lack of playmaking is maybe we need a vet for that instead of throwing a rookie (from a weak draft) into the fire to lead the team.

I wouldn't mind Hali, no to hayes, he looks very mediocre

Yeah but then what's the point? You're going to acquire your playmaker via the MLE? That's a stupid plan on its face.

Our core + a veteran playmaker = garbage team

GarPax isn't here anymore. Let's aim a bit higher than a garbage team that maybe makes the playoffs as first-round fodder if things break right.

[PaKii94]

Do people not realize how abysmal this team is in terms of passing/playmaking?

What's the appeal of adding a perimeter player who can't do much of anything other than catch/shoot? Seems like lipstick on a pig.

Give me Haliburton or Hayes. We need to change the offensive identity of this team, and that involves new primary and secondary playmakers.

The other way to look at the lack of playmaking is maybe we need a vet for that instead of throwing a rookie (from a weak draft) into the fire to lead the team.

I wouldn't mind Hali, no to hayes, he looks very mediocre

Yeah but then what's the point? You're going to acquire your playmaker via the MLE? That's a stupid plan on its face.

Our core + a veteran playmaker = garbage team

GarPax isn't here anymore. Let's aim a bit higher than a garbage team that maybe makes the playoffs as first-round fodder if things break right.

Our core + a rookie playmaker + vet 3/D = garbage team
Our core + a vet playmaker + rookie 3/D = slightly less garbage team

That vet playmaker will still be better than Hayes/Hali/Ball. These guys aren't young/Ja/Luka caliber players who can be relied on as "engines" of the team (and even then they had their rookie struggles). I would rather have a vet PG + shore up the lack of reliable SFs (I Like OPJ and hutch but damn stay on the floor!) with vassell/nesmith.


But I guess my dream is some trade for a legit vet playmaker (CP3 pleaseeeee come for free ) otherwise bulls are f*cked either way.

[Andi Obst]

Vassell is my guy then Wiseman, deni. I am half hoping we don't move up so we aren't cornered into taking ball/edwards/hayes

I don't see how moving up restricts us in any way. The mocks and big boards are all over the place, there is no clear top 5, top 3 or an obvious can't-miss first pick. Just take who you feel like is the best player and move on. I never got why so many people (and apparently many GMs) care so much about mocks. Brandon Clarke was mocked to go in the 20s the entire time, everyone with eyes knew that wasn't right, he still went there and surprise, surprise...he should have been picked top 10 easily.

The thing I'm most afraid of should we move up is how often I will have to read Wiseman's name.

[PaKii94]

Vassell is my guy then Wiseman, deni. I am half hoping we don't move up so we aren't cornered into taking ball/edwards/hayes

I don't see how moving up restricts us in any way. The mocks and big boards are all over the place, there is no clear top 5, top 3 or an obvious can't-miss first pick. Just take who you feel like is the best player and move on. I never got why so many people (and apparently many GMs) care so much about mocks. Brandon Clarke was mocked to go in the 20s the entire time, everyone with eyes knew that wasn't right, he still went there and surprise, surprise...he should have been picked top 10 easily.

The thing I'm most afraid of should we move up is how often I will have to read Wiseman's name.

Ideally yeah it should just be who the FO thinks is the best player available. However, the higher we are, it's just human nature to take the "safer" pick due to optics. If ball busts at #1, noone will bat an eye. If vassell busts at #1, fans will be demanding AK's head

[MrSparkle]

Vassell is my guy then Wiseman, deni. I am half hoping we don't move up so we aren't cornered into taking ball/edwards/hayes

I don't see how moving up restricts us in any way. The mocks and big boards are all over the place, there is no clear top 5, top 3 or an obvious can't-miss first pick. Just take who you feel like is the best player and move on. I never got why so many people (and apparently many GMs) care so much about mocks. Brandon Clarke was mocked to go in the 20s the entire time, everyone with eyes knew that wasn't right, he still went there and surprise, surprise...he should have been picked top 10 easily.

The thing I'm most afraid of should we move up is how often I will have to read Wiseman's name.

Yeah. It's funny how a mock board distorts the value of players. It's ridiculous in many ways. 20 years deep into internet analytics and every year, you still get at least 10 busts / no-impact rookies in the top-20. If Poku ends up translating to the NBA, everyone will bemoan how 15-20 teams were idiots for passing up on a 7-foot PG. For all his decent chances of becoming an all-star, there is every reason to think Anthony Edwards has a career as impressive as Terrance Ross or Ben McLemore.

A lot of the mock board trends seem to be political/agent posturing. Where GarPax had it wrong, IMO they used the draft to address roster needs even if they claimed they were looking for the BPA. Look at Denver's (or Toronto's) style, and they clearly swung for the fences (BPA), trying to get a potential high-ceiling, skilled and physically-gifted star with almost every pick, in many cases disregarding injury history or rawness.

If no. 1 option playmaking is your main concern out of this draft, it's a very tall-order for any player. You are looking at a long development cycle and rebuild - there is no Luka in this draft. Poku is pretty interesting, though admittedly a tooth pick and perhaps unfit for the NBA. But his agility and point-skills at 7-ft are unique to this draft.

I think elite shooting is the quickest recipe for plug-and-play. I'm warming up to Nesmith. Looks like Buddy H. with more height and wingspan. Vassell will probably have a good NBA career. Like I've said, Haliburton looks interesting cause he's a legitimate shooter with vision and length.

I think people would be a surprised how much a run-of-the-mill role-player center could help this team with playmaking, running an offensive system. Plumlee, Baynes are hitting the market - hello MLE. We have high-usage talent in Coby and Zach; Coby needs the ball to develop, so I'm not crazy at all about getting a guy like Hayes, LaMelo or Deni to "run the offense." If we had a center like that who could run a 2-man PnR, it would dramatically improve Coby and Zach's development, even if they played 15-20 mpg as backup centers.

[Andi Obst]

Ideally yeah it should just be who the FO thinks is the best player available. However, the higher we are, it's just human nature to take the "safer" pick due to optics. If ball busts at #1, noone will bat an eye. If vassell busts at #1, fans will be demanding AK's head

Yeah, Vassell would really be tough to sell to the fans that high. But as high as 3 maybe? Why not? I sure wouldn't love it (even as a pretty big Vassell fan), but a lot seems possible in this class. A potentially elite team defender who can already shoot looks pretty damn good in this class.

[Grodoboldo]

Vassell is my guy then Wiseman, deni. I am half hoping we don't move up so we aren't cornered into taking ball/edwards/hayes

I don't see how moving up restricts us in any way. The mocks and big boards are all over the place, there is no clear top 5, top 3 or an obvious can't-miss first pick. Just take who you feel like is the best player and move on. I never got why so many people (and apparently many GMs) care so much about mocks. Brandon Clarke was mocked to go in the 20s the entire time, everyone with eyes knew that wasn't right, he still went there and surprise, surprise...he should have been picked top 10 easily.

The thing I'm most afraid of should we move up is how often I will have to read Wiseman's name.

Yeah. It's funny how a mock board distorts the value of players. It's ridiculous in many ways. 20 years deep into internet analytics and every year, you still get at least 10 busts / no-impact rookies in the top-20. If Poku ends up translating to the NBA, everyone will bemoan how 15-20 teams were idiots for passing up on a 7-foot PG. For all his decent chances of becoming an all-star, there is every reason to think Anthony Edwards has a career as impressive as Terrance Ross or Ben McLemore.

A lot of the mock board trends seem to be political/agent posturing. Where GarPax had it wrong, IMO they used the draft to address roster needs even if they claimed they were looking for the BPA. Look at Denver's (or Toronto's) style, and they clearly swung for the fences (BPA), trying to get a potential high-ceiling, skilled and physically-gifted star with almost every pick, in many cases disregarding injury history or rawness.

If no. 1 option playmaking is your main concern out of this draft, it's a very tall-order for any player. You are looking at a long development cycle and rebuild - there is no Luka in this draft. Poku is pretty interesting, though admittedly a tooth pick and perhaps unfit for the NBA. But his agility and point-skills at 7-ft are unique to this draft.

I think elite shooting is the quickest recipe for plug-and-play. I'm warming up to Nesmith. Looks like Buddy H. with more height and wingspan. Like I've said, Haliburton looks interesting cause he's a legitimate shooter with vision and length.

I think people would be a surprised how much a run-of-the-mill role-player center could help this team with playmaking, running an offensive system. Plumlee, Baynes are hitting the market - hello MLE. We have high-usage talent in Coby and Zach; Coby needs the ball to develop, so I'm not crazy at all about getting a guy like Hayes, LaMelo or Deni to "run the offense." If we had a center like that who could run a 2-man PnR, it would dramatically improve Coby and Zach's development, even if they played 15-20 mpg as backup centers.

Your comment immediately reminded me of this 3 parts article on Cleaning the Glass.

"Bill Simmons and Malcolm Gladwell were an hour into another one of their freewheeling and entertaining discussions on Simmons’ podcast when Gladwell made a provocative claim: “I have yet to be convinced that there is any great predictability to player selection in any of the professional leagues,” he said. “It is ultimately a roll of the dice. Half the guys — not all of them — at least half of the people who are called wizards of talent evaluation are not wizards of talent evaluation. They got lucky.”

Part 1: https://cleaningtheglass.com/a-roll-of-the-dice-part-1/

Part 2: https://cleaningtheglass.com/a-roll-of-the-dice-part-2/

Part 3: https://cleaningtheglass.com/a-roll-of-the-dice-part-3/

They comment on the decisory process that leads to a draft pick. I really enjoyed reading them back then.