NBA games postponed today p14 Players decide to resume Playoffs

[League Circles]

If you're asking me then you've either not watched the video or you are just trolling.

Standard procedure should always be to assess risk and detain.

There were THEEE cops.

The level of incompetence they displayed in not assessing the danger first and then over-reacting to compensate ...is hilariously tragic.

I've watched two different videos and listened to the police scanner.

So, tell me why he wasnt detained ?

Why is he not in a jail cell?

Musiq, this isn't that complicated. This is what we know (besides his criminal status which isn't crucial but is notable):

1. He was in a physical altercation with the cops on the other side of the vehicle before the main video started.

2. The cops tried to taze him. It didn't stop him.

3. They were pointing their guns at him. I have to guess they ordered him to stop.

4. We have NO IDEA what HE might have said. It very well may have included "I'm gonna kill you all right now"

IF he said something like that, it should be obvious that the shooting was probably justified. If he didn't, it probably wasn't.

You don't continue to attempt to detain someone if they're repeatedly physically evading arrest and threatening to kill people right then and there and are reaching into their vehicle against orders at gunpoint.

We DON'T KNOW if this was a terrible injustice yet or sad but necessary and justified police work.

[Red8911]

Why would they boycott?

If you don't know why, you're either incredibly dense or racist.

Of course whoever disagrees is automatically a racist. Tell me the reason they are boycotting today? What did they accomplish by not playing a basketball game? The way I see its all a publicity stunt. They can be mad about what happened that’s totally understandable but to boycott a playoff game is total bs.

If you guys agree with this boycott then whenever a police officer shoots anyone of any color in a similar situation then the NBA should always stop the league. Would you guys like that? It doesn’t make any sense . The NBA players have been using their platform for BLM but apparently that’s not enough.I love the Bulls and the NBA but all of this is going to hurt them in the long run.

[musiqsoulchild]

So, tell me why he wasnt detained ?

Why is he not in a jail cell?

I'm not a cop. I don't know what procedure is. Maybe their training sucked. There are absolutely bad cops out there.

But there hasn't been a full investigation, and we haven't seen the full video.

It seems they were trying to arrest him, and he resisted.

That's literally what I wrote. That the cops were INCOMPETENT in detaining him.

And overcompensated by then shooting him.

That's the ISSUE that is in the public court of trial.

You want to put Blake's character, his rap sheet on the public court of trial.

Just think about that.

When people make mistakes/break the law, they should face due process of law. When cops make mistakes, they just double down and shoot???

[Shill]

That's NOT where the escalation started.

What's the desired outcome beyond platitudes and nebulous statements like "change"?

What reforms should be implemented?

I have some ideas for what could potentially help, but I'm not hearing a lot of cogent arguments.

[Shill]

You may, however, strike a nerve with the apolitical person that doesn't normally vote but also doesn't condone racist.

So I guess we're in the head-counting phase of the revolution.

What point are you trying to make?

That we're beyond fact-finding and robust discussion.

[musiqsoulchild]

I've watched two different videos and listened to the police scanner.

So, tell me why he wasnt detained ?

Why is he not in a jail cell?

Musiq, this isn't that complicated. This is what we know (besides his criminal status which isn't crucial but is notable):

1. He was in a physical altercation with the cops on the other side of the vehicle before the main video started.

2. The cops tried to taze him. It didn't stop him.

3. They were pointing their guns at him. I have to guess they ordered him to stop.

4. We have NO IDEA what HE might have said. It very well may have included "I'm gonna kill you all right now"

IF he said something like that, it should be obvious that the shooting was probably justified. If he didn't, it probably wasn't.

You don't continue to attempt to detain someone if they're repeatedly physically evading arrest and threatening to kill people right then and there and are reaching into their vehicle against orders at gunpoint.

We DON'T KNOW if this was a terrible injustice yet or sad but necessary and justified police work.

I am going to assume that he said " I am going to kill all 3 of you".

Ok.

Now, what does the cop do? 2 of them just watch. And the 3rd follows him to his car.

Where there are 2 CHILDREN.

And then shoots this heinous monster next to those children.

Do you not see how grossly incompetent this act of policing was?

[musiqsoulchild]

That's NOT where the escalation started.

What's the desired outcome beyond platitudes and nebulous statements like "change"?

What reforms should be implemented?

I have some ideas for what could potentially help, but I'm not hearing a lot of cogent arguments.

Heres the deal...when people are angry and grieving..you let them be.

Dont try to solve the problem then.

Give it time.

More importantly, dont tell them that their grief is not really that valid or that it's an over-reaction.

[Shill]

Heres the deal...when people are angry and grieving..you let them be.

Dont try to solve the problem then.

Give it time.

More importantly, dont tell them that their grief is not really that valid or that it's an over-reaction.

How many more years should we wait?

This obviously isn't the first publicized police incident, and it won't be the last.

[LateNight]

When survival is the number one priority taught in present-day LEO training, I don't think the Kenosha LEOs, in real-time, were thinking, as Mr. Blake reached into his car, "What would this look like on the news if I didn't take the risk and shot this man?"

Then change their training because it’s not f**king working.

The police are not able to do their job as it is because the communities they police don’t trust them anymore. There are riots because the communities do not support them anymore - this also means the police cannot do their job.

This shouldn’t be political - the system isn’t working for either side, so fix the system.

[musiqsoulchild]

Heres the deal...when people are angry and grieving..you let them be.

Dont try to solve the problem then.

Give it time.

More importantly, dont tell them that their grief is not really that valid or that it's an over-reaction.

How many more years should we wait?

This obviously isn't the first publicized police incident, and it won't be the last.

Are you the victim? Are you the oppressed?

It's not going to happen on your clock.

It's going to happen on the time and space that the community that has been victimized repeatedly decide they need.

[Shill]

This shouldn’t be political - the system isn’t working for either side, so fix the system.

What would be your fix?

I'm not asking to be antagonistic. I genuinely would like to hear potential solutions.

[Shill]

Are you the victim? Are you the oppressed?

It's not going to happen on your clock.

It's going to happen on the time and space that the community that has been victimized repeatedly decide they need.

I guess it depends on how you define "oppressed."

[musiqsoulchild]

Are you the victim? Are you the oppressed?

It's not going to happen on your clock.

It's going to happen on the time and space that the community that has been victimized repeatedly decide they need.

I guess it depends on how you define "oppressed."

In this situation, if you dont feel pain...then you are not the oppressed.

You may feel pain in some other situation but in the issue of systemic inequalities you are probably not the oppressed.

Either you are more evolved with your pain or you dont know what kind of pain the oppressed are feeling.

[Shill]

In this situation, if you dont feel pain...then you are not the oppressed.

You may feel pain in some other situation but in the issue of systemic inequalities you are probably not the oppressed.

Either you are more evolved with your pain or you dont know what kind of pain the oppressed are feeling.

So oppression is a psychological construct?

I actually don't entirely disagree, but probably for different reasons.

[League Circles]

So, tell me why he wasnt detained ?

Why is he not in a jail cell?

Musiq, this isn't that complicated. This is what we know (besides his criminal status which isn't crucial but is notable):

1. He was in a physical altercation with the cops on the other side of the vehicle before the main video started.

2. The cops tried to taze him. It didn't stop him.

3. They were pointing their guns at him. I have to guess they ordered him to stop.

4. We have NO IDEA what HE might have said. It very well may have included "I'm gonna kill you all right now"

IF he said something like that, it should be obvious that the shooting was probably justified. If he didn't, it probably wasn't.

You don't continue to attempt to detain someone if they're repeatedly physically evading arrest and threatening to kill people right then and there and are reaching into their vehicle against orders at gunpoint.

We DON'T KNOW if this was a terrible injustice yet or sad but necessary and justified police work.

I am going to assume that he said " I am going to kill all 3 of you".

Ok.

Now, what does the cop do? 2 of them just watch. And the 3rd follows him to his car.

Where there are 2 CHILDREN.

And then shoots this heinous monster next to those children.

Do you not see how grossly incompetent this act of policing was?

The presence of his children is incredibly tragic but utterly irrelevant to what they should have done. As is the fact that they were unable to restrain him.

Just listen to yourself man, you're suggesting that they should just let him kill them all (the cops, the other people and his kids) because "geez, this guy is way better at wrestling than us donut eaters so I guess we should let him follow through with his imminent and believable death threats".

Btw at least 2 of the cops followed him around the car at gunpoint/"tazer point". The third is out of the video frame but may have just been coming around the other side.

[musiqsoulchild]

Musiq, this isn't that complicated. This is what we know (besides his criminal status which isn't crucial but is notable):

1. He was in a physical altercation with the cops on the other side of the vehicle before the main video started.

2. The cops tried to taze him. It didn't stop him.

3. They were pointing their guns at him. I have to guess they ordered him to stop.

4. We have NO IDEA what HE might have said. It very well may have included "I'm gonna kill you all right now"

IF he said something like that, it should be obvious that the shooting was probably justified. If he didn't, it probably wasn't.

You don't continue to attempt to detain someone if they're repeatedly physically evading arrest and threatening to kill people right then and there and are reaching into their vehicle against orders at gunpoint.

We DON'T KNOW if this was a terrible injustice yet or sad but necessary and justified police work.

I am going to assume that he said " I am going to kill all 3 of you".

Ok.

Now, what does the cop do? 2 of them just watch. And the 3rd follows him to his car.

Where there are 2 CHILDREN.

And then shoots this heinous monster next to those children.

Do you not see how grossly incompetent this act of policing was?

The presence of his children is incredibly tragic but utterly irrelevant to what they should have done. As is the fact that they were unable to restrain him.

Just listen to yourself man, you're suggesting that they should just let him kill them all (the cops, the other people and his kids) because "geez, this guy is way better at wrestling than us donut eaters so I guess we should let him follow through with his imminent and believable death threats".

Btw at least 2 of the cops followed him around the car at gunpoint/"tazer point". The third is out of the video frame but may have just been coming around the other side.

I live in Chicago. A civilian.

I am always looking and assessing situations.

These are cops ...they are supposed to assess things. They are supposed to take in all the peripheral information as quickly as possible.

They are supposed to have a plan before they show up. And a plan for what they do when they show up. And an exit strategy.

This is gross incompetence by the cops.

[LateNight]

This shouldn’t be political - the system isn’t working for either side, so fix the system.

What would be your fix?

I'm not asking to be antagonistic. I genuinely would like to hear potential solutions.

Their are thousands of more qualified people who literally dedicated their lives to solving this problem (but they get stonewalled by politicians and bureaucrats). Still - since you asked - I’ll do my best.

Acknowledging the problem publicly and accepting responsibility for their own part in it is probably a good start.

Addressing the issues with qualified immunity would help. Changing quota systems would help limit the number of officers selectively enforcing “broken windows” tactics.

Training officers in deescalation tactics as aggressively as you train them in self defense would also help. Since they’re already over-extended, adding actual social workers to respond to certain domestic situations might be helpful.

One of the most important things is changing the “blue wall of silence”. This requires internal policy shifts that start at the academy. The police should hold themselves to a higher standard and police themselves and stringently as they police the outside world. They could also benefit from changes in how they assess threats - various military strategist have suggested changing the rules of engagement (I posted about that later in this thread).

Civilian review boards can also help.

These are just a few places to start. I’m not a professional or an academic. And I’m not a cop. I understand it’s a tough job. But letting this continue is not making it easier. So step one is probably saying: this is clearly an issue and we are going to begin the process of addressing it. Today.

[League Circles]

I am going to assume that he said " I am going to kill all 3 of you".

Ok.

Now, what does the cop do? 2 of them just watch. And the 3rd follows him to his car.

Where there are 2 CHILDREN.

And then shoots this heinous monster next to those children.

Do you not see how grossly incompetent this act of policing was?

The presence of his children is incredibly tragic but utterly irrelevant to what they should have done. As is the fact that they were unable to restrain him.

Just listen to yourself man, you're suggesting that they should just let him kill them all (the cops, the other people and his kids) because "geez, this guy is way better at wrestling than us donut eaters so I guess we should let him follow through with his imminent and believable death threats".

Btw at least 2 of the cops followed him around the car at gunpoint/"tazer point". The third is out of the video frame but may have just been coming around the other side.

I live in Chicago. A civilian.

I am always looking and assessing situations.

These are cops ...they are supposed to assess things. They are supposed to take in all the peripheral information as quickly as possible.

They are supposed to have a plan before they show up. And a plan for what they do when they show up. And an exit strategy.

This is gross incompetence by the cops.

None of these truths you mention shed any light on what the right thing to do in the moment was. You're evading the important question. Which is that regardless of whatever mistakes they may have made if he was threatening to kill everyone right then and there why should they not shoot him?

[Shill]

This shouldn’t be political - the system isn’t working for either side, so fix the system.

What would be your fix?

I'm not asking to be antagonistic. I genuinely would like to hear potential solutions.

Their are thousands of more qualified people who literally dedicated their lives to solving this problem (but they get stonewalled by politicians and bureaucrats). Still - since you asked - I’ll do my best.

Acknowledging the problem publicly and accepting responsibility for their own part in it is probably a good start.

Addressing the issues with qualified immunity would help. Changing quota systems would help limit the number of offices selectively enforcing “broken tail light” tactics.

Training officers in deescalation tactics as aggressively as you train them in self defense would also help. Since their already over-extended, adding actual social workers to respond to certain domestic situations might be a solution.

One of the most important things is changing the “blue wall of silence”. This require internal policy shifts that start at the academy. The police should hold themselves to a higher standard and police themselves and stringently as they police the outside world.

Civilian review boards can also help.

These are just a few places to start. I’m not a professional or an academic. And I’m not a cop. I understand it’s a tough job. But letting this continue is not making it easier. So step one is probably saying: this is clearly an issue and we are going to begin the process of addressing it. Today.

IMO, it has to start with ending the war on drugs.

Without doing that, most reforms will be fruitless.

[dougthonus]

Dont spout venom. No ones coming for anyone's head.

People absolutely come for people's heads now. If you discuss any issue related to race that doesn't state you wholeheartedly and 100% agree that African American's are targeted and murdered by police on the regular, then you are deemed a racist regardless of the truth behind your statement.

On this particular topic, people have lost the willingness to have discourse, and maybe that is required to affect change, but I find it pretty scary that you can't have reasonable discourse anymore.