OT: Illinois fair tax: yes or no?

[Chicago-Bull-E]

If anyone still believes trickle down economics works, yikes.

What an amazing trick, the rich of the world convincing the poor and middle class to fight for them. It’s mind boggling, the notion that people would rather have more money in the hands of the rich than in the government. You guys want a Plutocracy, not a democracy.

[Jcool0]

is there any polling data on this?

Two-thirds (65%) of respondents said they favored a constitutional change "to allow a graduated income tax — that is, tax rates would be lower for lower-income taxpayers and higher for upper-income taxpayers," according to a news release from the institute. The release said 32% of people polled opposed the proposal.

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/simon-poll-illinois-voters-support-graduated-income-tax-by-2-to-1-margin/article_9e1a1eda-8391-57a4-8db6-056e5cac2e83.html

[dice]

If anyone still believes trickle down economics works, yikes.

What an amazing trick, the rich of the world convincing the poor and middle class to fight for them. It’s mind boggling, the notion that people would rather have more money in the hands of the rich than in the government. You guys want a Plutocracy, not a democracy.

we've had a plutocracy for a long, long time. and a civically uneducated populace is essential for its existence. there's a reason why the candidate that raises the most money wins significantly more often: because more money = greater ability to sway impressionable minds

[Chicago-Bull-E]

If anyone still believes trickle down economics works, yikes.

What an amazing trick, the rich of the world convincing the poor and middle class to fight for them. It’s mind boggling, the notion that people would rather have more money in the hands of the rich than in the government. You guys want a Plutocracy, not a democracy.

we've had a plutocracy for a long, long time. and a civically uneducated populace is essential for its existence. there's a reason why the candidate that raises the most money wins significantly more often: because more money = greater ability to sway impressionable minds

Very true, unfortunately. Any step that is possible to push the country further from a Plutocracy should be widely cheered for by the populous. But the corporations are tricky, they’ll get people to support them based on less significant aspects of life, like identity politics or religion.

And then those people wonder why their grandparents and parents could afford a house and raise 3 kids on one income with a high school diploma, and why they have 2 college degrees and are still living with said parents. The battle against the wealthy is being lost, badly.

[chitownsalesmen]

is there any polling data on this?

Two-thirds (65%) of respondents said they favored a constitutional change "to allow a graduated income tax — that is, tax rates would be lower for lower-income taxpayers and higher for upper-income taxpayers," according to a news release from the institute. The release said 32% of people polled opposed the proposal.

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/simon-poll-illinois-voters-support-graduated-income-tax-by-2-to-1-margin/article_9e1a1eda-8391-57a4-8db6-056e5cac2e83.html

Thanks, but that is from march I wonder if the polling would look different today.

[dice]

is there any polling data on this?

Two-thirds (65%) of respondents said they favored a constitutional change "to allow a graduated income tax — that is, tax rates would be lower for lower-income taxpayers and higher for upper-income taxpayers," according to a news release from the institute. The release said 32% of people polled opposed the proposal.

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/simon-poll-illinois-voters-support-graduated-income-tax-by-2-to-1-margin/article_9e1a1eda-8391-57a4-8db6-056e5cac2e83.html

Thanks, but that is from march I wonder if the polling would look different today.

my guess is that the margin has shrunk due to the marketing battle

and by the way, 60% is required

[dice]

illinois has a mandated flat income tax that is currently set at 5%. social services aren't gonna get cut in a pandemic that has made the budget deficit that much worse (and will across the nation unless the feds step in, which they should but probably won't). so...taxes WILL BE raised. which leaves 2 options:

1) rate remains at 5% for almost everyone, but jumps to 8% for the wealthy, or
2) rate raised to 6-7% across the board

your choice

[Michael Jackson]

If anyone still believes trickle down economics works, yikes.

What an amazing trick, the rich of the world convincing the poor and middle class to fight for them. It’s mind boggling, the notion that people would rather have more money in the hands of the rich than in the government. You guys want a Plutocracy, not a democracy.

I absolutely get your arguement but in politics... usually the ones who placate to the masses are just smarter at pulling emotional heart strings and are also the rich and sell an agenda that they don’t have any real interest in upholding. I think a guy like Bernie for instance did but we see what the DNC did to him. A Plutocracy might be more effective in the most horrible way, kind of an incidental fallout from it. It’s just more a testament to how untrustworthy I feel the government is. No politicians seem to be not well off and by the end they have found many ways to make mine through their position. Why would guys like Pritzker or Trump ever want to be in politics? The on paper pay makes no sense vs the responsibility. I surely don’t trust that either of those men have my best interest at heart.

Also I just reread 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and Brave New World in the past two months or so lol so I distrust any government. Yet all those futures truly do have large scale benefits in many ways, just not very aligned with our current human nature.

[dice]

If anyone still believes trickle down economics works, yikes.

What an amazing trick, the rich of the world convincing the poor and middle class to fight for them. It’s mind boggling, the notion that people would rather have more money in the hands of the rich than in the government. You guys want a Plutocracy, not a democracy.

I absolutely get your arguement but in politics... usually the ones who placate to the masses are just smarter at pulling emotional heart strings and are also the rich and sell an agenda that they don’t have any real interest in upholding. I think a guy like Bernie for instance did but we see what the DNC did to him. A Plutocracy might be more effective in the most horrible way, kind of an incidental fallout from it. It’s just more a testament to how untrustworthy I feel the government is. No politicians seem to be not well off and by the end they have found many ways to make mine through their position. Why would guys like Pritzker or Trump ever want to be in politics? The on paper pay makes no sense vs the responsibility. I surely don’t trust that either of those men have my best interest at heart.

Also I just reread 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and Brave New World in the past two months or so lol so I distrust any government. Yet all those futures truly do have large scale benefits in many ways, just not very aligned with our current human nature.

what personal benefit does pritzker get from raising taxes on himself? it could even hurt him politically

[chitownsalesmen]

If anyone still believes trickle down economics works, yikes.

What an amazing trick, the rich of the world convincing the poor and middle class to fight for them. It’s mind boggling, the notion that people would rather have more money in the hands of the rich than in the government. You guys want a Plutocracy, not a democracy.

I absolutely get your arguement but in politics... usually the ones who placate to the masses are just smarter at pulling emotional heart strings and are also the rich and sell an agenda that they don’t have any real interest in upholding. I think a guy like Bernie for instance did but we see what the DNC did to him. A Plutocracy might be more effective in the most horrible way, kind of an incidental fallout from it. It’s just more a testament to how untrustworthy I feel the government is. No politicians seem to be not well off and by the end they have found many ways to make mine through their position. Why would guys like Pritzker or Trump ever want to be in politics? The on paper pay makes no sense vs the responsibility. I surely don’t trust that either of those men have my best interest at heart.

Also I just reread 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and Brave New World in the past two months or so lol so I distrust any government. Yet all those futures truly do have large scale benefits in many ways, just not very aligned with our current human nature.

what personal benefit does pritzker get from raising taxes on himself? it could even hurt him politically

taxes are just surface level stuff, pritzker could easily raise taxes and still be profiting from being governor in other unforeseen ways, even legal ways.

In fact I would be surprised if he isn't profiting off of being governor in some manner, not dogging him or even really criticizing him thats just kinda how politics works.

[dice]

I absolutely get your arguement but in politics... usually the ones who placate to the masses are just smarter at pulling emotional heart strings and are also the rich and sell an agenda that they don’t have any real interest in upholding. I think a guy like Bernie for instance did but we see what the DNC did to him. A Plutocracy might be more effective in the most horrible way, kind of an incidental fallout from it. It’s just more a testament to how untrustworthy I feel the government is. No politicians seem to be not well off and by the end they have found many ways to make mine through their position. Why would guys like Pritzker or Trump ever want to be in politics? The on paper pay makes no sense vs the responsibility. I surely don’t trust that either of those men have my best interest at heart.

Also I just reread 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and Brave New World in the past two months or so lol so I distrust any government. Yet all those futures truly do have large scale benefits in many ways, just not very aligned with our current human nature.

what personal benefit does pritzker get from raising taxes on himself? it could even hurt him politically

taxes are just surface level stuff, pritzker could easily raise taxes and still be profiting from being governor in other unforeseen ways, even legal ways.

could well be, but he's also from a prominent, wealthy philanthropic family. he was kinda raised to give back

[TheSuzerain]

what personal benefit does pritzker get from raising taxes on himself? it could even hurt him politically

taxes are just surface level stuff, pritzker could easily raise taxes and still be profiting from being governor in other unforeseen ways, even legal ways.

could well be, but he's also from a prominent, wealthy philanthropic family. he was kinda raised to give back

Lol let's dial it back

Also I call bull **** on them raising everybody's taxes if this doesn't pass.

[chitownsalesmen]

what personal benefit does pritzker get from raising taxes on himself? it could even hurt him politically

taxes are just surface level stuff, pritzker could easily raise taxes and still be profiting from being governor in other unforeseen ways, even legal ways.

could well be, but he's also from a prominent, wealthy philanthropic family. he was kinda raised to give back

I'd say thats a friendly interpretation of Pritzkers motives.

[dice]

taxes are just surface level stuff, pritzker could easily raise taxes and still be profiting from being governor in other unforeseen ways, even legal ways.

could well be, but he's also from a prominent, wealthy philanthropic family. he was kinda raised to give back

Lol let's dial it back

Also I call bull **** on them raising everybody's taxes if this doesn't pass.

unlike the federal government, states are required by law to balance their budgets. it's either raise everyone's taxes or cut services. so in order for your call of bull**** to fly you have to think they would make major cuts to services. is that what you predict? if the "fair tax" doesn't pass they're just going to hang the needy out to dry during and in the aftermath of a pandemic? after costing many of them their jobs with government shutdowns to begin with?

[dice]

taxes are just surface level stuff, pritzker could easily raise taxes and still be profiting from being governor in other unforeseen ways, even legal ways.

could well be, but he's also from a prominent, wealthy philanthropic family. he was kinda raised to give back

I'd say thats a friendly interpretation of Pritzkers motives.

and suggesting that he's been interested in politics since he was a kid as a means to add to his already immense wealth is a very unfriendly one

typically wealthy people become political donors in order to benefit themselves, not politicians. in order to secure business-friendly policies while avoiding the public backlash. of course, there are high ego exceptions

[chitownsalesmen]

could well be, but he's also from a prominent, wealthy philanthropic family. he was kinda raised to give back

I'd say thats a friendly interpretation of Pritzkers motives.

and suggesting that he's been interested in politics since he was a kid in order to add to his already immense wealth is a very unfriendly one

I didn't say it was the only thing he's looking to accomplish, or that he's a flat out crook I'm saying being as wealthy and well connected as Pritzker is and how much weight his name carries I'd be surprised if he's hasn't found a new method of generating personal revenue.

[Mbrahv0528]

I don't see how anything other than flat tax is fair for all. I think a flat tax already proportionally takes more from billionaires vs working class

Wait, what? That's quite literally, wrong. How you came to that conclusion is baffling. It's a basic math equation. A flat tax disproportionately affects lower income earners.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[TheSuzerain]

could well be, but he's also from a prominent, wealthy philanthropic family. he was kinda raised to give back

Lol let's dial it back

Also I call bull **** on them raising everybody's taxes if this doesn't pass.

unlike the federal government, states are required by law to balance their budgets. it's either raise everyone's taxes or cut services. so in order for your call of bull**** to fly you have to think they would make major cuts to services. is that what you predict?

No. They'll just have a deficit and (rightly) point to COVID to indicate this is not the time for a tax hike or for austerity.

If Dems win Senate and Presidency at the Federal level there will be funds available. Even if the Repubs holds the Senate, there will be probably be funds available.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I absolutely get your arguement but in politics... usually the ones who placate to the masses are just smarter at pulling emotional heart strings and are also the rich and sell an agenda that they don’t have any real interest in upholding. I think a guy like Bernie for instance did but we see what the DNC did to him. A Plutocracy might be more effective in the most horrible way, kind of an incidental fallout from it. It’s just more a testament to how untrustworthy I feel the government is. No politicians seem to be not well off and by the end they have found many ways to make mine through their position. Why would guys like Pritzker or Trump ever want to be in politics? The on paper pay makes no sense vs the responsibility. I surely don’t trust that either of those men have my best interest at heart.

Also I just reread 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and Brave New World in the past two months or so lol so I distrust any government. Yet all those futures truly do have large scale benefits in many ways, just not very aligned with our current human nature.

what personal benefit does pritzker get from raising taxes on himself? it could even hurt him politically

taxes are just surface level stuff, pritzker could easily raise taxes and still be profiting from being governor in other unforeseen ways, even legal ways.

In fact I would be surprised if he isn't profiting off of being governor in some manner, not dogging him or even really criticizing him thats just kinda how politics works.

So you have anything rooted in reality? This is vague, boogeyman kind of stuff, talking points that the anti-government rich republicans push onto the middle class.

I’m kind of surprised at the anti Pritzker rhetoric. I know people didn’t like him before he was elected. Legalizing marijuana quickly, a strong and effective Covid-19 response, raising the minimum wage, and now a tax on the rich, what is actually happening that has many people speaking this way? Like, actual facts? I’m not a political savant, so am more curious as to the thought process of many in this board.

[dice]

Lol let's dial it back

Also I call bull **** on them raising everybody's taxes if this doesn't pass.

unlike the federal government, states are required by law to balance their budgets. it's either raise everyone's taxes or cut services. so in order for your call of bull**** to fly you have to think they would make major cuts to services. is that what you predict?

No. They'll just have a deficit and (rightly) point to COVID to indicate this is not the time for a tax hike or for austerity.

If Dems win Senate and Presidency at the Federal level there will be funds available. Even if the Repubs holds the Senate, there will be probably be funds available.

hope you're right about the federal assistance. for comparison's sake, during the great recession, when obama took over and there were big democratic majorities in congress, states had combined budget deficits of over $600 billion. the feds helped out some, but spending cuts accounted for nearly half of the shortfall and state tax/fee increases raised another $100 bil