Lets talk Zach Lavine

[jordanwilliams6]

I’m coming around to trading Zach. I absolutely love him but I’m moving closer to blowing up the entire team. I’ll keep Williams and Coby for now and gut the entire roster.

I don’t want to do this yet, but unless we see a drastic improvement in the next 20 games then this is way I’ll go.

[PhilLeotardo]

Better scorer than Zach in Bulls history (you need to count eras,rules,way of officiating games,skills not only stats) 1.Jordan 2.Pippen 3.Derrick Rose 4.Toni Kukoc 5.Jimmy Butler 6.Jamal Crawford/Lavine/B.Gordon. Lavine is not so great scorer because he cannot finish at rim at will, cannot finish at high rate through contact, best dunker who never dunk on somebody in actuall game to put pressure on the rim or to play above the rim, doesent have go to move to relay he is chuker, lives and dies with shooting, not having neck to earn fouls and free throws, no back to basket game (even today that is not so neccessary,but Kawhi buys some buckets that way). Tbh he is also as Coby more wired to be bench scoring punch not centerpiece of offense.

[PhilLeotardo]

As far as Bulls who were scorers on ZLVs level, it’s probably only you know who, Woolridge, & maybe Gilmore, right? Am I forgetting anyone?

Yeah trade the guy. It’s time. The rebuild got compromised & sabotaged by the previous regime, everyone has had their confidence shattered & their games are all wonky now from so many negative habits

ZLV is literally the only one still somewhat “in tact”. Problem is, I dunno who can give a worthy return for him right now. The most obvious answers are Boston, Denver, the Clippers, & maybe NOLA. Boston is probably the safest bet. Denver really don’t need anyone else, they’re coming along just fine & will roll forward with their core

[dice]

As far as Bulls who were scorers on ZLVs level, it’s probably only you know who, Woolridge, & maybe Gilmore, right? Am I forgetting anyone?

Yeah trade the guy. It’s time. The rebuild got compromised & sabotaged by the previous regime, everyone has had their confidence shattered & their games are all wonky now from so many negative habits

ZLV is literally the only one still somewhat “in tact”. Problem is, I dunno who can give a worthy return for him right now. The most obvious answers are Boston, Denver, the Clippers, & maybe NOLA. Boston is probably the safest bet. Denver really don’t need anyone else, they’re coming along just fine & will roll forward with their core

boston didn't want to give up much for jimmy. doubt they're pining for lavine, particularly when they're solid at the starting guard position

[PhilLeotardo]

Keep Lavine. Why? I posted this somewhere else but OPJ, Lauri and Felicio to Detroit for Rose and Blake. However, afterast night, let Rose start. Rose > Lavine > PWill > Blake > ??? would be fun to watch. Let Coby be 6th man.


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

For the love of f****....

Wut? Why? I don’t even....huh!??!?

[netduri2]

Better scorer than Zach in Bulls history (you need to count eras,rules,way of officiating games,skills not only stats) 1.Jordan 2.Pippen 3.Derrick Rose 4.Toni Kukoc 5.Jimmy Butler 6.Jamal Crawford/Lavine/B.Gordon. Lavine is not so great scorer because he cannot finish at rim at will, cannot finish at high rate through contact, best dunker who never dunk on somebody in actuall game to put pressure on the rim or to play above the rim, doesent have go to move to relay he is chuker, lives and dies with shooting, not having neck to earn fouls and free throws, no back to basket game (even today that is not so neccessary,but Kawhi buys some buckets that way). Tbh he is also as Coby more wired to be bench scoring punch not centerpiece of offense.

Scoring wise Lavine is Rose with a real 3 point shot.

Pippen was an elite player, and while a great scorer he wasn't elite.

As far as the rest. They aren't even in the same league.

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Rose with a real 3 point shot.... Are you serious? If his scoring ability is that good then why the hell didn't he make any single all-star apperance?

LaVine is a great athlete but he is much worse driver than prime DRose due to his poor ball-handling. No need to say that DRose is much better passer when he drives to the basket.

People often forget the fact that LaVine is not a good mid-range shooter because his 3pt% is decent. Actually his mid-range FG% is below average. DRose is a much better mid-range shooter than LaVine.

The bottom line is that LaVine is NOT DRose with a real 3 point shot in terms of scoring. If he was that good people wouldn't call him "empty calories stats guy".

[pipfan]

I like Lavine a lot, but the issue is-he is going to win games for us this year. I think he is a good 2nd option and an elite 3rd option. We should tank out. I would trade Lavine, Carter, Porter and see what we have with the young guys. Let this COVID season be a wash (no fans to lose ticket sales anyway) and pray for Cade/Suggs. If the NBA is fixed with its lottery, Cade to Bulls would help the league!!

Imagine starting next year with this lineup
White
Cade
Williams
Lauri
Gafford
Plus whatever assets we get from Lavine and the other vets. We would also have cap space, and the 2022 draft is supposed to be the "double draft"

If we ride Lavine even to the deadline, that's 5-7 more games we win, and lose in the lottery standings

[DroseReturnChi]

9-19 22pts Lavine is the real Lavine he has shown for the past 6yrs. The preseason Lavine pro fans claim he has evolved is what will appear every 10th game like Wiggins. Even to this day, he is all potential and no substance even compared to Booker who is barely allstar grossly overpaid.

Useless on defense as usual getting destroyed by midget Young with his buddy White in a single quarter, terrible leader losing 40pts to Hawks team, and still looks lost. Even a one man team Rose couldnt win anything and Lavine is a cheap knock off version shouldnt bother to gamble on. Once he gets traded and Williams becomes the number 1 option, he will realize how terrible he was and costed hundreds of millions for his lack of maturity. Special players like Rose, Williams have the ability to change a franchise within their rookie contract bc these guys care about bringing titles, not about making all stars, being number 1option, making max money.

Even in a 20win team, shouldnt get more than 15 attempts. Whoever defies Williams are all fired and shot distribution should be Williams-20 shots, Lavine/Lauri 15shots max, White 10 max. Nobody touches the ball until the rook passes it and allow to shoot.

[Stratmaster]

jimmy butler was ABSOLUTELY as good a scorer as lavine...once he became a scorer

Not with the Bulls.

huh? he hasn't gotten better as a scorer since he left the bulls. per 100 poss.:'

29.4p on 57.7% ts (3.5% over league average) - last 3 seasons w/ bulls
28.2p on 57.8% ts (1.8% over) - since

zach lavine as a bull (excluding first season):

34.3p on 57.1% (0.9% over)

Ok. So in what way do those stats show Butler is as good a scorer as Lavine? That's 6 freaking points per 100 possessions difference.

But my point is, before you start talking about trading a scorer like Lavine for a draft pick, be sure you understand what you are trading. Scorers like him are not a dime a dozen. You likely won't have another scorer like him for a long time.

I am not saying don't trade him. Or that he is untouchable. But you better get a haul back for him. If the biggest piece of that trade is a top 10 draft pick that is a crazy mistake.

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[Stratmaster]

Better scorer than Zach in Bulls history (you need to count eras,rules,way of officiating games,skills not only stats) 1.Jordan 2.Pippen 3.Derrick Rose 4.Toni Kukoc 5.Jimmy Butler 6.Jamal Crawford/Lavine/B.Gordon. Lavine is not so great scorer because he cannot finish at rim at will, cannot finish at high rate through contact, best dunker who never dunk on somebody in actuall game to put pressure on the rim or to play above the rim, doesent have go to move to relay he is chuker, lives and dies with shooting, not having neck to earn fouls and free throws, no back to basket game (even today that is not so neccessary,but Kawhi buys some buckets that way). Tbh he is also as Coby more wired to be bench scoring punch not centerpiece of offense.

Scoring wise Lavine is Rose with a real 3 point shot.

Pippen was an elite player, and while a great scorer he wasn't elite.

As far as the rest. They aren't even in the same league.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Rose with a real 3 point shot.... Are you serious? If his scoring ability is that good then why the hell didn't he make any single all-star apperance?

LaVine is a great athlete but he is much worse driver than prime DRose due to his poor ball-handling. No need to say that DRose is much better passer when he drives to the basket.

People often forget the fact that LaVine is not a good mid-range shooter because his 3pt% is decent. Actually his mid-range FG% is below average. DRose is a much better mid-range shooter than LaVine.

The bottom line is that LaVine is NOT DRose with a real 3 point shot in terms of scoring. If he was that good people wouldn't call him "empty calories stats guy".

That's easy. Rose went to the all star game because he was not only a great player but was on a decent team.

But please note, I said all time Bulls "scorer". I didn't say all time bulls "player".

And most people don't call him "empty calories stat guy". Just a couple on this board do.

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[coldfish]

Just have to note that Zach will be an unrestricted free agent in two years at age 27. If you aren't comfortable giving him a full max contract, then he is going to leave because someone else will. His value is going to tank after this trade deadline.

I don't want to trade Zach because I don't think he is easily replaceable but IMO, he is gone in two years and this upcoming draft is stacked.

The team that looks interesting is the Knicks. They have two picks this upcoming draft. Lavine and Thibs get along. IMO, he would fit next to Barrett pretty well. Knicks would have no issue with his salary.

Trade 1:
Lavine for Randle (expiring), Knicks pick and Dallas pick

Trade 2:
Lavine and Markkanen for Randle, Toppin, Knicks pick and Dallas pick

[netduri2]

Scoring wise Lavine is Rose with a real 3 point shot.

Pippen was an elite player, and while a great scorer he wasn't elite.

As far as the rest. They aren't even in the same league.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Rose with a real 3 point shot.... Are you serious? If his scoring ability is that good then why the hell didn't he make any single all-star apperance?

LaVine is a great athlete but he is much worse driver than prime DRose due to his poor ball-handling. No need to say that DRose is much better passer when he drives to the basket.

People often forget the fact that LaVine is not a good mid-range shooter because his 3pt% is decent. Actually his mid-range FG% is below average. DRose is a much better mid-range shooter than LaVine.

The bottom line is that LaVine is NOT DRose with a real 3 point shot in terms of scoring. If he was that good people wouldn't call him "empty calories stats guy".

That's easy. Rose went to the all star game because he was not only a great player but was on a decent team.

But please note, I said all time Bulls "scorer". I didn't say all time bulls "player".

And most people don't call him "empty calories stat guy". Just a couple on this board do.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Not only “just a couple on this board” are using the term but also notable reporters like Zach Lowe of ESPN used “empty calories” several times to describe LaVine’s game.

And if you can fetch top10 pick by trading LaVine then you must trade him. Very simple.

[netduri2]

[url][/url]

Just have to note that Zach will be an unrestricted free agent in two years at age 27. If you aren't comfortable giving him a full max contract, then he is going to leave because someone else will. His value is going to tank after this trade deadline.

I don't want to trade Zach because I don't think he is easily replaceable but IMO, he is gone in two years and this upcoming draft is stacked.

The team that looks interesting is the Knicks. They have two picks this upcoming draft. Lavine and Thibs get along. IMO, he would fit next to Barrett pretty well. Knicks would have no issue with his salary.

Trade 1:
Lavine for Randle (expiring), Knicks pick and Dallas pick

Trade 2:
Lavine and Markkanen for Randle, Toppin, Knicks pick and Dallas pick

I would do both without a second thought but my fear is that the Bulls couldn't find someone offering lottery pick in 2021 draft to trade for LaVine since this draft is known for having many top-talented prospects.

[coldfish]

[url][/url]

Just have to note that Zach will be an unrestricted free agent in two years at age 27. If you aren't comfortable giving him a full max contract, then he is going to leave because someone else will. His value is going to tank after this trade deadline.

I don't want to trade Zach because I don't think he is easily replaceable but IMO, he is gone in two years and this upcoming draft is stacked.

The team that looks interesting is the Knicks. They have two picks this upcoming draft. Lavine and Thibs get along. IMO, he would fit next to Barrett pretty well. Knicks would have no issue with his salary.

Trade 1:
Lavine for Randle (expiring), Knicks pick and Dallas pick

Trade 2:
Lavine and Markkanen for Randle, Toppin, Knicks pick and Dallas pick

I would do both without a second thought but my fear is that the Bulls couldn't find someone offering lottery pick in 2021 draft to trade for LaVine since this draft is known for having many top-talented prospects.

I highly doubt that the Bulls are getting a lottery pick in this draft. Knicks might sneak into the playoffs after that kind of trade. Dallas will make the playoffs. Chicago would end up with a top 5 pick.

IMO, the Bulls should be able to use the Jrue Holiday trade as a baseline and get a lot of mediocre stuff for Lavine. In my above trades, you might be able to add some future picks or swaps.

[dougthonus]

Just have to note that Zach will be an unrestricted free agent in two years at age 27. If you aren't comfortable giving him a full max contract, then he is going to leave because someone else will. His value is going to tank after this trade deadline.

This is really it in a nutshell.

My position on Zach was offer him a max extension this off-season (which due to weird extension rules is based on his current contract and well below the max contract) and if he takes it then you keep him. If he passes then you trade him for as much as you can get.

Why? You probably don't want to pay him a max deal starting at over 35M per year, and thats what you will have to do in two years, and his value will go down as he gets closer to that. A team that has legitimate aspirations now but is missing a scorer / creator and has luxury tax concerns would be a great fit. I would have loved to swap Zach into that deal the Bucks gave to the Pelicans for Holiday.

I don't know if there is a good destination for Zach left and a team willing to give up quite a bit for him, but I'd be all over it if there were.

I don't want to trade Zach because I don't think he is easily replaceable but IMO, he is gone in two years and this upcoming draft is stacked.

This is my view too. You won't likely get a future Zach in return for him. You'll most likely be worse off, but if you aren't going to keep him long term, then now gets you a better return than later.

The team that looks interesting is the Knicks. They have two picks this upcoming draft. Lavine and Thibs get along. IMO, he would fit next to Barrett pretty well. Knicks would have no issue with his salary.

Trade 1:
Lavine for Randle (expiring), Knicks pick and Dallas pick

Trade 2:
Lavine and Markkanen for Randle, Toppin, Knicks pick and Dallas pick

Would do both those trades.

[sco]

Just have to note that Zach will be an unrestricted free agent in two years at age 27. If you aren't comfortable giving him a full max contract, then he is going to leave because someone else will. His value is going to tank after this trade deadline.

This is really it in a nutshell.

My position on Zach was offer him a max extension this off-season (which due to weird extension rules is based on his current contract and well below the max contract) and if he takes it then you keep him. If he passes then you trade him for as much as you can get.

Why? You probably don't want to pay him a max deal starting at over 35M per year, and thats what you will have to do in two years, and his value will go down as he gets closer to that. A team that has legitimate aspirations now but is missing a scorer / creator and has luxury tax concerns would be a great fit. I would have loved to swap Zach into that deal the Bucks gave to the Pelicans for Holiday.

I don't know if there is a good destination for Zach left and a team willing to give up quite a bit for him, but I'd be all over it if there were.

I don't want to trade Zach because I don't think he is easily replaceable but IMO, he is gone in two years and this upcoming draft is stacked.

This is my view too. You won't likely get a future Zach in return for him. You'll most likely be worse off, but if you aren't going to keep him long term, then now gets you a better return than later.

The team that looks interesting is the Knicks. They have two picks this upcoming draft. Lavine and Thibs get along. IMO, he would fit next to Barrett pretty well. Knicks would have no issue with his salary.

Trade 1:
Lavine for Randle (expiring), Knicks pick and Dallas pick

Trade 2:
Lavine and Markkanen for Randle, Toppin, Knicks pick and Dallas pick

Would do both those trades.

The Dallas pick will be in the 20's, the Knick's pick could be top 5, as would, likely the Bulls. Adding in Toppin for Markkanen doesn't excite me because Toppin looks very mediocre, but I guess Lauri is essentially worthless, and it helps the tank. I started thinking I wouldn't do it, but I guess I would, push comes to shove.

That said, I am of the opinion that Zach will be worth a MAX deal from us, after this season, but I guess we'll see.

[TheSuzerain]

I think the very obvious tear down trade is Lavine and Thad or Sato to Golden State for Wiggins, the Minny pick, and 2 future GSW 1sts.

Pelicans also a sensible trade partner. Lavine for Redick and picks.

I prefer Golden State. There is going to be desperation there.

[Chi town]

Lavine is going to bring a lot more than a non lottery 1st.

Will be interesting to see if AK will want picks into the future or young players.

[coldfish]

I think the very obvious tear down trade is Lavine and Thad or Sato to Golden State for Wiggins, the Minny pick, and 2 future GSW 1sts.

Pelicans also a sensible trade partner. Lavine for Redick and picks.

I prefer Golden State. There is going to be desperation there.

Wiggins is an unimaginably bad contract. I can't believe they took him. I'm not sure that even 3 first round picks would be enough to convince me to pay him that much money for that long.

[Chi town]

I think the very obvious tear down trade is Lavine and Thad or Sato to Golden State for Wiggins, the Minny pick, and 2 future GSW 1sts.

Pelicans also a sensible trade partner. Lavine for Redick and picks.

I prefer Golden State. There is going to be desperation there.

No way you take Wiggins. Take Oubre as an expiring. Lavine Curry Wiggins Draymond would be a playoff team.