From Chicago: the AYO Thread

[Chi town]

Ayo will be in the rotation the rest of the season and probably become our 7th man. No way Coby will be taking his mins by the time he knocks off the rust.

I think the Bulls are going to play mostly 4 guards the whole season. Vuc and Bradley will be the C at all times and DJJ and Green will split PF mins but I think that will only go down.

There is a role for Coby but it will require making 3s, playing D and playing fast. I anticipate it will take him awhile but he will catch on and be a key contributor in different games much like Ayo has. Coby when he catches fire can win you games. Also think DDR Zach and even Lonzo will play less moving fwd once we start gelling. There will be lots of blowouts where they sit too.

[sco]

Of course Ayo could end up having a better rookie season than those guys (except for Lauri). But I wonder what will happen when Coby comes back? Ayo has to cement himself as a critical bench piece now while he can if he wants to have a rookie year like that. Coby is coming for his minutes.

That said, I have been predicting since this summer that Ayo will end up causing Coby’s departure. And indeed - a lot of people will laugh at this - I have always considered Ayo to be the better prospect, period. Regardless of where they were drafted.

I think Ayo has knocked TBj out of the rotation. Pat Williams injury has opened up minutes as well.

I think one of Green, DJj, Ayo, or Coby is going to be the loser here, but it wouldn't surprise me if that changes based on the night and matchup.

I think the Ayo/Coby battle for minutes will be good for both guys. Ayo's got to become a reliable 3pt shooter and Coby has to (regain his game and) become a better defender. Barring a trade, I think Green and DJJ are needed to defend bigger guys and are likely in a time-split at PF.

[Brothaman33]

As an Illinois fan I've been on cloud 9 watching him. It's been awesome to see him play well. I have noticed a few things...

1. His main knock was that he was good at everything but not elite at anything...except transition play. I know he has struggled a bit finishing so far because of the length and athleticism of the NBA, but he was a KILLER on the fastbreak, going down hill at Illinois. His straightline speed was/is elite and I think once he figures out angles and gets used to where he needs to be to finish over bigger defenders, he is going to be very good at finishing in transition.

2. He is a better passer then he gets credit for. He was around 5 assists at Illinois, he gets spacing and finding the open man. He had great chemistry with Kofi at Illinois and knows how to work with a big man. They ran a ton of pick and roll down there, so he is used to it. His vision and passing ability will be better then you think.

3. He is a scorer at heart. He was the guy at Illinois. I watched him score 36 against Missouri when they had no one else who look like they could get a shot off. His offensive arsenal is advanced, but I do think putting length on him will cause him challenges. My point is, he has been great defensively, but the offense is in there...we just have to wait and see if he can maintain that against NBA length and athleticism.

4. He will get to the tip top of his potential. From people I know and have talked to who are around him, it's basketball and that's it. His mindset is ball and he believes in everything he is doing, Billy alluded to that in the press conference. He's a student of the game with a calm, ultra competitive mindset. His God given body may not let him get to star status because of some of his athletic limitations, but he is gonna reach to the absolute ceiling of his potential.

5. With ALL that said, (yes, I'm an Ayo stan)...I think we gotta be reasonable about what he is. The comps have been interesting. The Kris Dunn one, I guess makes the most sense, but Dunn was a better athlete coming out...but if Ayo can play at the level Dunn did when he first got here, while shooting a liiiiitle bit better, that's a fine, fine basketball player. Maybe not a starter on a great team, but a guy you want all day.

Even as an Illinois nut, I had him pegged as a first round talent, anywhere from pick 20-30 who would be an awesome combo guard off the bench. He may be even better then that.

Here's hoping.

[23-7]

So I've been convinced forever you need 2/3 of these things to be a good finisher as guard at the rim in the NBA: length, explosion, body control. The most important is actually body control and then probably explosion but if you don't have that length is a good thing as well. Some examples.

Kris Dunn: great length, horrible body control, decent explosion overall trash tier finisher.

Kyrie Irving: mediocre length, mediocre explosion, world class body control overall incredible finisher.

Ayo: great length, below average explosion, average body control and average or so so finisher.

If he can hit his threes and finish at an average NBA clip at the rim for a PG he'll have a very long career. His defense is his "carrying tool" as they say in baseball so he just has to be mediocre on offense to have a role. If he's average offensively he'll be a solid starter. Maybe he can get there, maybe he doesn't but early on it looks like Chicago has found a great 2nd round asset.

You also need touch otherwise simone biles has body control and explosiveness.

touch is part of body control imo. the english you can put on the ball as it leaves your hands is part of it. anyways, didn't want to derail this ayo thread he showed on that driving layup the other night that he has good body control and touch as he floated it up over the defender it was great to see Dunn was never able to do that stuff.

We can agree to disagree. Touch to me is like shooting touch. Duncan robinson has touch, but he's not doing switch hand layups

[sco]

Happy to see Ayo make a 3 tonight. Our 2nd unit with Caruso, Ayo, DD, DJJ and Bradley is really missing 3pt shooting.

[chicago paxsons]

Happy to see Ayo make a 3 tonight. Our 2nd unit with Caruso, Ayo, DD, DJJ and Bradley is really missing 3pt shooting.

Coby should fit well if his defense isn't horrendous.

[FecesOfDeath]

Happy to see Ayo make a 3 tonight. Our 2nd unit with Caruso, Ayo, DD, DJJ and Bradley is really missing 3pt shooting.

Aside from that, it was a pretty bad game for him. He redeemed himself a little in the fourth quarter, but in the first half his closeout defense on shooters was horrible, and he passed up two or three wide open shooting opportunities late in the shot clock, probably thinking he might get blocked. He needs to put those up, at the very least, to test his limits against NBA defenses, because those would've been good shots regardless of outcome.

[SHO'NUFF]

Hope he keeps this up & stays in rotation even when Coby comes back. It’s fun watching a Chicago kid succeed.

[sco]

Hope he keeps this up & stays in rotation even when Coby comes back. It’s fun watching a Chicago kid succeed.

I sorta like the line-up of Caruso, White, Ayo, Derozan, Bradley

[madvillian]

He is a wing in today's NBA and a secondary ballhandler. I even think he could eventually become a Derozan type PF. He plays with a lot of toughness on both ends and after a few years in an NBA weight program he's going to start bouncing guys off him like Demar.

I'm impressed with how he attacks the glass that's where he reminds me of Luol who also didn't have a super vertical but was really long and had a knack for knowing where the ball would come off.

His shot, well, it's a WIP. For now he should probably just keep shooting the corner three and only taking them otherwise when forced into it late clock. Billy does a good job playing him with the shot makers so he doesn't have much pressure on him other then to defend, rebound and get out in transition. It helps every other player on the court to have a legit 1st option in Zach and Demar out there at all times and in a way I would have liked to see what WCJR could have done in this squad as well. Oh well.

[sco]

I am surprised by his handle (given his long arms) and ability to finish through traffic at the rim (which, IMO, is the biggest difference with TBJ and why he's in the rotation).

[madvillian]

I am surprised by his handle (given his long arms) and ability to finish through traffic at the rim (which, IMO, is the biggest difference with TBJ and why he's in the rotation).

I give him a lot of credit his handle is so much better than it was at Illinois. It reminds me of THJR who could barely dribble in a straight line at Michigan and then once he got into the league became a solid ballhandler. The behind the back move he put on was a legit scorers' move and one that Demar looks to pull out once and awhile as well. Hell, maybe Demar has been working on it with him in practice.

[DuckIII]

I am surprised by his handle (given his long arms) and ability to finish through traffic at the rim (which, IMO, is the biggest difference with TBJ and why he's in the rotation).

I give him a lot of credit his handle is so much better than it was at Illinois. It reminds me of THJR who could barely dribble in a straight line at Michigan and then once he got into the league became a solid ballhandler. The behind the back move he put on was a legit scorers' move and one that Demar looks to pull out once and awhile as well. Hell, maybe Demar has been working on it with him in practice.

This is going to be so short that it will sound condescending and I don’t mean it that way. But he could do all of this already at Illinois. Same handle. Same finishing. Same everything. Indeed, we are just barely scratching the surface of everything he already showed at Illinois.

The only thing even remotely surprising is how quickly he became a high end defender.

Lastly, and in general, it’s time to stop talking about his athletic limitations. Some players have “alone in a gym with some cones” athleticism and some players have in-game athleticism (which implicates a heavy dose of your brain’s ability to process constantly changing information and reacting to it). Ayo’s in-game athleticism has proven to be not a downside, but actually a positive attribute.

[dabig3]

Posted this in the Coby thread, but Ayo in this bench mob unit is pure production

Read on Twitter

Not much more to say about how much he's shattering expectations, and getting better every game. He already took TBJ out of the rotation, and if he continues to work on improving his shot and finishing ability, Coby needs to watch out too, lol.

[FriedRise]

Kid just keeps getting better. In his postgame interview last night, he said he saw Zach do a layup and put it high up the glass so it doesn't get blocked, so then he tried it and it worked. You can tell how hungry he is to improve and he's just absorbing everything from watching the guys around him.

[madvillian]

I am surprised by his handle (given his long arms) and ability to finish through traffic at the rim (which, IMO, is the biggest difference with TBJ and why he's in the rotation).

I give him a lot of credit his handle is so much better than it was at Illinois. It reminds me of THJR who could barely dribble in a straight line at Michigan and then once he got into the league became a solid ballhandler. The behind the back move he put on was a legit scorers' move and one that Demar looks to pull out once and awhile as well. Hell, maybe Demar has been working on it with him in practice.

This is going to be so short that it will sound condescending and I don’t mean it that way. But he could do all of this already at Illinois. Same handle. Same finishing. Same everything. Indeed, we are just barely scratching the surface of everything he already showed at Illinois.

The only thing even remotely surprising is how quickly he became a high end defender.

Lastly, and in general, it’s time to stop talking about his athletic limitations. Some players have “alone in a gym with some cones” athleticism and some players have in-game athleticism (which implicates a heavy dose of your brain’s ability to process constantly changing information and reacting to it). Ayo’s in-game athleticism has proven to be not a downside, but actually a positive attribute.

Not condescending but a bit homerish for the Illini. Ayo had some limits in college that haven't shown up much in the league yet. There is a reason Illinois left the dance early and part of if was his lack of scoring and finishing as a lead guard in that Loyola game.

It helps playing with ballers like Zach and Demar and PGs that can get out in transition with him. AKME just did a masterful job putting the puzzle pieces together and creating roles for the supporting players that they can thrive in.

[DuckIII]

I give him a lot of credit his handle is so much better than it was at Illinois. It reminds me of THJR who could barely dribble in a straight line at Michigan and then once he got into the league became a solid ballhandler. The behind the back move he put on was a legit scorers' move and one that Demar looks to pull out once and awhile as well. Hell, maybe Demar has been working on it with him in practice.

This is going to be so short that it will sound condescending and I don’t mean it that way. But he could do all of this already at Illinois. Same handle. Same finishing. Same everything. Indeed, we are just barely scratching the surface of everything he already showed at Illinois.

The only thing even remotely surprising is how quickly he became a high end defender.

Lastly, and in general, it’s time to stop talking about his athletic limitations. Some players have “alone in a gym with some cones” athleticism and some players have in-game athleticism (which implicates a heavy dose of your brain’s ability to process constantly changing information and reacting to it). Ayo’s in-game athleticism has proven to be not a downside, but actually a positive attribute.

Not condescending but a bit homerish for the Illini. Ayo had some limits in college that haven't shown up much in the league yet. There is a reason Illinois left the dance early and part of if was his lack of scoring and finishing as a lead guard in that Loyola game.

It helps playing with ballers like Zach and Demar and PGs that can get out in transition with him. AKME just did a masterful job putting the puzzle pieces together and creating roles for the supporting players that they can thrive in.

Who is around him and how that helps him in the NBA has nothing to do with what skills he did and did not show at Illinois. He showed literally every single thing he’s shown so far, plus more he has not yet shown. Nothing is new.

Also, obviously Ayo is not a franchise player you build an offense around. He’s the compliment, not the other way around. So any team in which he would not have been required to shoulder the load would have been a good fit. In fact one could argue Chicago is a less than ideal fit due to pretty obvious roster redundancies. But he’s played so well as to make them irrelevant.

P.S. Citing one game against one team as proving he lacked scoring and finishing ability in college is pretty shaky considering he spent the entire season up to that point carving up the Big Ten’s meat grinder defenses as his team’s primary scorer and ball handler.

[madvillian]

Will have to agree to disagree on this. If he was a better player in college he wouldn't have lasted until where he was in the draft that seems pretty obvious. It's not just me saying that it's literally 30 or so NBA GMs and all their scouts.

[Jcool0]

I am just glad we aren't debating whether he should be in the starting lineup and needing him to be a 14/3 guy. He can just be that 7th guy and not be forced into a role he isn't ready for. Which you know would of happened in the past.

[DuckIII]

Will have to agree to disagree on this. If he was a better player in college he wouldn't have lasted until where he was in the draft that seems pretty obvious. It's not just me saying that it's literally 30 or so NBA GMs and all their scouts.

All we were discussing is whether or not he showed isolation scoring ability with a handle and finish while in college.

Those things don’t guarantee even getting drafted at all. Him slipping doesn’t constitute evidence that he did not have handles or finishing ability in college.

Regardless, Ayo slipped through the cracks. The GMs, as many predicted at the time, were wrong as they have been countless times. It happens. Thank god.