Coby's Next Contract

[Jcool0]

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

Yes. For about 20 games every season Coby plays better than Zach. For the other 62 Zach plays better than Coby. It's why I call Coby Lavine lite.

I guess we’ll see next season. I expect us to better. Same roster with younger guys continuing to improve and build chemistry.

You're the reason Jerry wants the play in game every year.

[Stratmaster]

I said that he has been playing like one. Not that he is one.

But he isn't playing like one. The Bulls haven't had a top 15 players at any point since Rose. Scoring doesn't make you a top player. Like i posted Zach was a 24-27 ppg guy the entire time here and as much as i waned him to be a top 20 players in reality he didn't do enough other things to break through.

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

That's just not true. His usage has been at 30٪ during this streak. That is dominating the ball. He doesn't have any less, or more, turnovers than Lavine with the same usage.

[Stratmaster]

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

Yes. For about 20 games every season Coby plays better than Zach. For the other 62 Zach plays better than Coby. It's why I call Coby Lavine lite.

I guess we’ll see next season. I expect us to better. Same roster with younger guys continuing to improve and build chemistry.

The Bulls should have been better THIS season. And the season before. And the one before that. Will they be better next season? Maybe. That's a completely different discussion than the topic of this thread.

[DuckIII]

The beauty of this situation is unlike Giddey he is doing this a year before we have to decide. His next contract will not be decided by this latest streak, which absolutely cannot be trusted until proven otherwise. It will be decided based on what he does next year. And if he can maintain this, that’s great news for us because even though he’ll get paid he’ll be worth it.

[WindyCityBorn]

Yes. For about 20 games every season Coby plays better than Zach. For the other 62 Zach plays better than Coby. It's why I call Coby Lavine lite.

I guess we’ll see next season. I expect us to better. Same roster with younger guys continuing to improve and build chemistry.

You're the reason Jerry wants the play in game every year.

I’m talking 45 plus wins next season. Not aiming for .500. I’d rather not make the playoffs this season. You clearly have no idea about what I want from this team are just salty that I’m not down on the players as you are.

[MrSparkle]

Small sample size or not, Coby looks better than ever. If he signs the max he’s eligible as a Bull (which doesn’t sound like a lot), seems like a win-win. Otherwise, will have to wait for next summer to see.

I don’t see why he wouldn’t want to be the face of the Bulls if they can offer him his market value. This FO stuck with him longer than anybody - the lone remaining GarPax piece.

I’m not seeing a $40M+ market for him in 2026, but we’ll see. He’d have to play like a top-10 guard all season.

[Jcool0]

I guess we’ll see next season. I expect us to better. Same roster with younger guys continuing to improve and build chemistry.

You're the reason Jerry wants the play in game every year.

I’m talking 45 plus wins next season. Not aiming for .500. I’d rather not make the playoffs this season. You clearly have no idea about what I want from this team are just salty that I’m not down on the players as you are.

I guess we will agree to disagree. You see Coby as a borderline top 10 players. I dont, its more likely top 50 (Which was better then being a 6th man a month before). You see a 45 win team... i see a 40 win team when they dont play half the league tanking.

[CROBulls]

It's not in Coby's (or his reps) best interest to extend sadly, so Bulls gonna have to roll the dice on UFA. They may have to trade him because if a better team with money has a spot available, he's probably walking por nada.

I am talking as someone who is not willing for Bulls to extend Coby at any price. It actually should be in his best interest to stay with Bulls because I dont see one organization in NBA who would give Coby White for 5 years since he was drafted a starting role and minutes he got. It took a lot of f time for him to start playing worthy of his draft pick position. Usually it's bigs who take this much time let alone guards with raptor arms.

And unless he continues playing this way, I still see him not changing a team just due CBA reasons while getting big money and not many teams in same time having free cap. You would rather use that money on deficit position than team adding another guard to their roster.

Coby White numbers by NBA guard standards are 20.5 pts per game (21st in NBA between just guards, 10th if speaking just shooting guard) and that's his best attribute, being microwave scorer. He averages 4.5 assists per game, which doesnt even qualify him between first 30 overall guards in NBA. He only qualify for assists between shooting guards leaders at 13th spot. He doesnt qualify between overall top 30 guards in FG percentage either, but between just shooting guards he ranks at 10th.

So in reality he is 10th best shooting guard at best around the league. I think he should be paid as much as that person. Which is Jordan Poole 30M, Anfernee Simmons 25M, Derrick White 29M. You dont want him be paid Desmond Bane money. Otherwise you might as well keep Lavine.

I don't disagree for the most part. But let's say Bulls low-ball him, why would he not just want to go to a more competitive franchise if the money was basically on par? I'd say this is pretty easy since he will be an UFA. Either you overpay him or be prepared to lose him for nothing.

You let him walk. We went through this story many times before. Remember guy called Lavine? Overpay or lose. I bet you now wanted him not extended? Coby White is replacable at NBA level. He does nothing elite to be worthy of 32M+ money. I just pulled numbers for you so many people as you can see that what Coby does is replacable from non All-Star calibre players. Easily obtained. Or traded for more important reasons.

You dont want cap your team for this team talent and for level talent Coby gives you from numbers standpoint. Given he is UFA he can leave team. That's why I like new CBA. It makes teams hesitant to just go in FA and make a offer. It makes guys like Coby White worthless at market. Because they are not stars. Nobody in NBA is in bidding war for guy called Coby White. Guy doesnt have single All-Star appearance. You could argue for Lavine that he is worth that money because at minimum he is All-Star who could get better but thats his minimum ceiling. But Coby, Coby will not sniff anything to All-Star at any moment of his career unless he continues playing month after month of this kind of game. And we know after 5 years he doesnt have it, he is streak shooter.

Bulls will have enough time to see how long can keep this game to make a decent UFA offer. But I dont see a single team in NBA saying oh Coby White is on market. We need that we need to go get him.

[DuckIII]

But he isn't playing like one. The Bulls haven't had a top 15 players at any point since Rose. Scoring doesn't make you a top player. Like i posted Zach was a 24-27 ppg guy the entire time here and as much as i waned him to be a top 20 players in reality he didn't do enough other things to break through.

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

That's just not true. His usage has been at 30٪ during this streak. That is dominating the ball. He doesn't have any less, or more, turnovers than Lavine with the same usage.

I don’t know how you guys use the phrase “dominating the ball.” To me it means possessing the ball. That is measured by time of possession, not usage. Zach is in the top 25 in the NBA for time of possession. I did not see Coby’s ranking because statmuse makes you pay outside of the top 25.

Usage is whether a team possession ends with you taking a FGA, FTAs or a turnover. It does not calculate how long you possess it.

Eyeball test tells me Coby and Zach do not “possess” the ball in the same way at all. Coby seems to drive, shoot or pass pretty quickly. Which is not a comparison of them as over all offensive players.

[League Circles]

The beauty of this situation is unlike Giddey he is doing this a year before we have to decide. His next contract will not be decided by this latest streak, which absolutely cannot be trusted until proven otherwise. It will be decided based on what he does next year. And if he can maintain this, that’s great news for us because even though he’ll get paid he’ll be worth it.

It's a beautiful catastrophe. On one hand having next year to more fully evaluate him prevents us from having to take the same risk in overpaying him that we would if he was a UFA this summer. On the other, he'll be a young UFA, and if he even has a healthy season similar to this to date, let alone like he's played since the trade, we might have to pay a ton. Guys like him don't very often become UFAs at his age. Though maybe we'll be saved by not enough teams having true cap space then, but I have no idea if that's true like it is this summer with Giddey where it seems it's probably Brooklyn or bust.

[Jcool0]

Eye test says Coby is playing better than Zach. Raw numbers don’t tell the full story. Better decision making, less turnovers, better handles, significantly better pressure in situations(the biggest difference he isn’t a choker like Zach). And he is doing it without needing to dominate the ball.

If he does this for a full season I’ll be convinced he’s a foundational piece.

That's just not true. His usage has been at 30٪ during this streak. That is dominating the ball. He doesn't have any less, or more, turnovers than Lavine with the same usage.

I don’t know how you guys use the phrase “dominating the ball.” To me it means possessing the ball. That is measured by time of possession, not usage. Zach is in the top 25 in the NBA for time of possession. I did not see Coby’s ranking because statmuse makes you pay outside of the top 25.

Usage is whether a team possession ends with you taking a FGA, FTAs or a turnover. It does not calculate how long you possess it.

Eyeball test tells me Coby and Zach do not “possess” the ball in the same way at all. Coby seems to drive, shoot or pass pretty quickly. Which is not a comparison of them as over all offensive players.

Are you looking at season numbers or for the last 20 games? Those numbers are going to look different. Coby and Zach are not the same player. Zach is like 2 levels above Coby athletically. So how they score is not going to be exactly the same. The who point is what they are ultimately contributing to the team is the same even if they aren't doing it 100% the same.

[DuckIII]

The beauty of this situation is unlike Giddey he is doing this a year before we have to decide. His next contract will not be decided by this latest streak, which absolutely cannot be trusted until proven otherwise. It will be decided based on what he does next year. And if he can maintain this, that’s great news for us because even though he’ll get paid he’ll be worth it.

It's a beautiful catastrophe. On one hand having next year to more fully evaluate him prevents us from having to take the same risk in overpaying him that we would if he was a UFA this summer. On the other, he'll be a young UFA, and if he even has a healthy season similar to this to date, let alone like he's played since the trade, we might have to pay a ton. Guys like him don't very often become UFAs at his age. Though maybe we'll be saved by not enough teams having true cap space then, but I have no idea if that's true like it is this summer with Giddey where it seems it's probably Brooklyn or bust.

It’s a concern because our FO is bad and may overpay him for basketball like he played earlier this year which would be a mistake.

But there are legitimate reasons to believe that post-trade deadline Coby is a real, sustainable thing. And if next season proves that out you can’t really overpay because that is a max quality shooting guard.

The only downside to having the extra year is that AK has been really terrible so far. It casts a shadow over all strategies discussed.

[DuckIII]

That's just not true. His usage has been at 30٪ during this streak. That is dominating the ball. He doesn't have any less, or more, turnovers than Lavine with the same usage.

I don’t know how you guys use the phrase “dominating the ball.” To me it means possessing the ball. That is measured by time of possession, not usage. Zach is in the top 25 in the NBA for time of possession. I did not see Coby’s ranking because statmuse makes you pay outside of the top 25.

Usage is whether a team possession ends with you taking a FGA, FTAs or a turnover. It does not calculate how long you possess it.

Eyeball test tells me Coby and Zach do not “possess” the ball in the same way at all. Coby seems to drive, shoot or pass pretty quickly. Which is not a comparison of them as over all offensive players.

Are you looking at season numbers or for the last 20 games? Those numbers are going to look different. Coby and Zach are not the same player. Zach is like 2 levels above Coby athletically. So how they score is not going to be exactly the same. The who point is what they are ultimately contributing to the team is the same even if they aren't doing it 100% the same.

I’m not talking about any particular time period at all. The sole stat I cited for Zach - TOP - was for this season.

[League Circles]

The beauty of this situation is unlike Giddey he is doing this a year before we have to decide. His next contract will not be decided by this latest streak, which absolutely cannot be trusted until proven otherwise. It will be decided based on what he does next year. And if he can maintain this, that’s great news for us because even though he’ll get paid he’ll be worth it.

It's a beautiful catastrophe. On one hand having next year to more fully evaluate him prevents us from having to take the same risk in overpaying him that we would if he was a UFA this summer. On the other, he'll be a young UFA, and if he even has a healthy season similar to this to date, let alone like he's played since the trade, we might have to pay a ton. Guys like him don't very often become UFAs at his age. Though maybe we'll be saved by not enough teams having true cap space then, but I have no idea if that's true like it is this summer with Giddey where it seems it's probably Brooklyn or bust.

It’s a concern because our FO is bad and may overpay him for basketball like he played earlier this year which would be a mistake.

But there are legitimate reasons to believe that post-trade deadline Coby is a real, sustainable thing. And if next season proves that out you can’t really overpay because that is a max quality shooting guard.

The only downside to having the extra year is that AK has been really terrible so far. It casts a shadow over all strategies discussed.

Agreed on the risk that AK overpays. I don't think there is any realistic scenario where Coby can be a true max guy on a contender. IMO, if he's making a max contract, that pretty much assures that the team won't be much above average. That's why the entire concept of max contract sucks. Though maybe I'm traumatized by seeing 30% and 35% "max" guys on nba teams not living up to that pay. Coby could maybe possibly be OK at 25% max if this is the real him. But isn't he going to be eligible for 30% or even more?

[MrSparkle]

It's a beautiful catastrophe. On one hand having next year to more fully evaluate him prevents us from having to take the same risk in overpaying him that we would if he was a UFA this summer. On the other, he'll be a young UFA, and if he even has a healthy season similar to this to date, let alone like he's played since the trade, we might have to pay a ton. Guys like him don't very often become UFAs at his age. Though maybe we'll be saved by not enough teams having true cap space then, but I have no idea if that's true like it is this summer with Giddey where it seems it's probably Brooklyn or bust.

It’s a concern because our FO is bad and may overpay him for basketball like he played earlier this year which would be a mistake.

But there are legitimate reasons to believe that post-trade deadline Coby is a real, sustainable thing. And if next season proves that out you can’t really overpay because that is a max quality shooting guard.

The only downside to having the extra year is that AK has been really terrible so far. It casts a shadow over all strategies discussed.

Agreed on the risk that AK overpays. I don't think there is any realistic scenario where Coby can be a true max guy on a contender. IMO, if he's making a max contract, that pretty much assures that the team won't be much above average. That's why the entire concept of max contract sucks. Though maybe I'm traumatized by seeing 30% and 35% "max" guys on nba teams not living up to that pay. Coby could maybe possibly be OK at 25% max if this is the real him. But isn't he going to be eligible for 30% or even more?

TBF, a DNP David Lee and Bogut were max guys on a contender. One of the best teams ever. Wiggins in the next iteration of that team.

Not saying your points suck, but the grandiose statement of being handicapped by contracts… you’re only handicapped by bad players on big contracts. We literally improved by trading Zach Lavine for 3 “scrubs.”

I’d work backwards with this one, and evaluate by the end of next season how many playoff teams would covet Coby as a starter. If the answer is “most” , you have to seriously consider the weight of his marginal under-performance (to salary) against his value as a prime top-20 guard.

[WindyCityBorn]

You're the reason Jerry wants the play in game every year.

I’m talking 45 plus wins next season. Not aiming for .500. I’d rather not make the playoffs this season. You clearly have no idea about what I want from this team are just salty that I’m not down on the players as you are.

I guess we will agree to disagree. You see Coby as a borderline top 10 players. I dont, its more likely top 50 (Which was better then being a 6th man a month before). You see a 45 win team... i see a 40 win team when they dont play half the league tanking.

Saying his playing like one and is one are two totally different things. He’s literally averaging right at a highly efficient 30 ppg. If he sustains that you are damn right he is in argument for top 15. Any other player would be too.

[Jcool0]

I’m talking 45 plus wins next season. Not aiming for .500. I’d rather not make the playoffs this season. You clearly have no idea about what I want from this team are just salty that I’m not down on the players as you are.

I guess we will agree to disagree. You see Coby as a borderline top 10 players. I dont, its more likely top 50 (Which was better then being a 6th man a month before). You see a 45 win team... i see a 40 win team when they dont play half the league tanking.

Saying his playing like one and is one are two totally different things.

However you want to phrase it. its not true.

[League Circles]

It’s a concern because our FO is bad and may overpay him for basketball like he played earlier this year which would be a mistake.

But there are legitimate reasons to believe that post-trade deadline Coby is a real, sustainable thing. And if next season proves that out you can’t really overpay because that is a max quality shooting guard.

The only downside to having the extra year is that AK has been really terrible so far. It casts a shadow over all strategies discussed.

Agreed on the risk that AK overpays. I don't think there is any realistic scenario where Coby can be a true max guy on a contender. IMO, if he's making a max contract, that pretty much assures that the team won't be much above average. That's why the entire concept of max contract sucks. Though maybe I'm traumatized by seeing 30% and 35% "max" guys on nba teams not living up to that pay. Coby could maybe possibly be OK at 25% max if this is the real him. But isn't he going to be eligible for 30% or even more?

TBF, a DNP David Lee and Bogut were max guys on a contender. One of the best teams ever. Wiggins in the next iteration of that team.

Not saying your points suck, but the grandiose statement of being handicapped by contracts… you’re only handicapped by bad players on big contracts. We literally improved by trading Zach Lavine for 3 “scrubs.”

I’d work backwards with this one, and evaluate by the end of next season how many playoff teams would covet Coby as a starter. If the answer is “most” , you have to seriously consider the weight of his marginal under-performance (to salary) against his value as a prime top-20 guard.

Good points. If we could magically get an additional player who also makes the max but is worth much more than the max like Steph Curry, maybe Coby on a kax wouldn't prevent us from being a contender. I just think that's super unlikely. I'm proceeding with all decisions based around the idea that we will not have an elite star on the contender we're trying to build.

[CROBulls]

Curry was playing like superstar on MLE money for almost half a decade. And then when his extension kicked in he got max out of that MLE money. So he was still underpaid while being superstar. When he signed his 3rd extension he actually got first superstar money.

That franchise basically give him pennies for almost decade of superstar performance.

[HoopsterJones]

Trade Coby to the highest bidder this offseason. That is the absolute best option going forward.