Bears 12.0

[Dresden]

I agree, it doesn’t have to be Caleb V the coaching staff. Apparently it is though. For a bevy of reasons legit or not. But the Waldron guy isn’t exactly unemployed. According to Twitter he can’t coach HS football. Let’s just say that it’s hard to place blame on players and the roster because fans ride the players. That’s their hope horse.

Who said it is Caleb v. the coaching staff? Everyone is searching for answers, and most of the posters are saying it was likely a mix of a lot of things- coaching be one of them. The real question is, now that we've revamped the O line, brought in a whole new staff, beefed up the receiving corps even more, how will the offense look in 2025? There's every reason to be excited about it. And there's every reason to believe in Caleb Williams. More than one analyst said that he was the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck. Until proven otherwise, you have to believe he's got what it takes to be an excellent NFL QB.

[TheJordanRule]

I agree, it doesn’t have to be Caleb V the coaching staff. Apparently it is though. For a bevy of reasons legit or not. But the Waldron guy isn’t exactly unemployed. According to Twitter he can’t coach HS football. Let’s just say that it’s hard to place blame on players and the roster because fans ride the players. That’s their hope horse.

Who said it is Caleb v. the coaching staff? Everyone is searching for answers, and most of the posters are saying it was likely a mix of a lot of things- coaching be one of them. The real question is, now that we've revamped the O line, brought in a whole new staff, beefed up the receiving corps even more, how will the offense look in 2025? There's every reason to be excited about it. And there's every reason to believe in Caleb Williams. More than one analyst said that he was the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck. Until proven otherwise, you have to believe he's got what it takes to be an excellent NFL QB.

Agreed. The importance of a great O-line can't be overstated, Dres. Here's the goat talking about it: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qYbART3ReYU

[TheJordanRule]

We've gone from a mid OL to a good OL. Get ready to reap massive rewards from this major change. No way we don't! Say it with me, CW IS KOBE!

[jnrjr79]

Caleb has this fear of interceptions, which isn’t a bad thing mind you but it manifests in bad ways. Holding the ball too long and taking a sack, overthrowing deep routes, throwing too hard with out the touch on the ball. Fleet said it too he wants to USC it and make a play but at the same time when he does NFL defenses are much better and he is scared of a turnover. He either has to change that mindset or change the way he plays and not let it be hero ball.

This specific issue - Caleb being scared to throw b/c he wanted to avoid picks - seems very much to be a coaching thing.

It'll be interesting to see how that changes, because Johnson has noted specifically that modern thinking has evolved to focus on Expected Points Added. For EPA, sacks are generally viewed as more damaging than picks, so theoretically the priorities may shift.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/ben-johnson-shared-forward-thinking-234247627.html

[TheJordanRule]

Caleb has this fear of interceptions, which isn’t a bad thing mind you but it manifests in bad ways. Holding the ball too long and taking a sack, overthrowing deep routes, throwing too hard with out the touch on the ball. Fleet said it too he wants to USC it and make a play but at the same time when he does NFL defenses are much better and he is scared of a turnover. He either has to change that mindset or change the way he plays and not let it be hero ball.

This specific issue - Caleb being scared to throw b/c he wanted to avoid picks - seems very much to be a coaching thing.

It'll be interesting to see how that changes, because Johnson has noted specifically that modern thinking has evolved to focus on Expected Points Added. For EPA, sacks are generally viewed as more damaging than picks, so theoretically the priorities may shift.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/ben-johnson-shared-forward-thinking-234247627.html

The goat didn't do hero ball and he better be the model moving forward. CW needs to give up on that failed strategy. This kid will adjust appropriately because he's too smart not to. Don't try to be Mahomes too fast, CW! We **** love you! Even Mahomes wasn't Mahomes until he adjusted appropriately. CW IS KOBE!!!!

[Dresden]

Caleb has this fear of interceptions, which isn’t a bad thing mind you but it manifests in bad ways. Holding the ball too long and taking a sack, overthrowing deep routes, throwing too hard with out the touch on the ball. Fleet said it too he wants to USC it and make a play but at the same time when he does NFL defenses are much better and he is scared of a turnover. He either has to change that mindset or change the way he plays and not let it be hero ball.

This specific issue - Caleb being scared to throw b/c he wanted to avoid picks - seems very much to be a coaching thing.

It'll be interesting to see how that changes, because Johnson has noted specifically that modern thinking has evolved to focus on Expected Points Added. For EPA, sacks are generally viewed as more damaging than picks, so theoretically the priorities may shift.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/ben-johnson-shared-forward-thinking-234247627.html

How can a sack be worse than a pick? Sometimes sacks are just a loss of a few yards, which can be overcome easily. With a pick, you lose possession.

[nomorezorro]

one sack isn't worse than one pick. taking many sacks because you're overly precious about protecting the ball is worse than constantly getting the ball out of your hands and occasionally throwing interceptions, presuming you can limit the turnovers to a reasonable number

[biggestbullsfan]

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[biggestbullsfan]

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[TheJordanRule]

I agree, it doesn’t have to be Caleb V the coaching staff. Apparently it is though. For a bevy of reasons legit or not. But the Waldron guy isn’t exactly unemployed. According to Twitter he can’t coach HS football. Let’s just say that it’s hard to place blame on players and the roster because fans ride the players. That’s their hope horse.

I lived out this reality with my guy Justin, Fleet. I kept blaming the OL, and the coach. The coach was at least my second favorite target, even though the coach didn't ask Justin to do that lame ass patented spin move out of the pocket and then race down the field one of out of every four times. I kept expecting Justin to become the juggernaut we watched in college, and hated anyone or anything that contradicted that narrative. I went full delulu

[fleet]

I agree, it doesn’t have to be Caleb V the coaching staff. Apparently it is though. For a bevy of reasons legit or not. But the Waldron guy isn’t exactly unemployed. According to Twitter he can’t coach HS football. Let’s just say that it’s hard to place blame on players and the roster because fans ride the players. That’s their hope horse.

I lived out this reality with my guy Justin, Fleet. I kept blaming the OL, and the coach. The coach was at least my second favorite target, even though the coach didn't ask Justin to do that lame ass patented spin move out of the pocket and then race down the field one of out of every four times. I kept expecting Justin to become the juggernaut we watched in college, and hated anyone or anything that contradicted that narrative. I went full delulu

in the last number of my sports watching years, I have built a rubric for myself where I began to believe in the numbers and the results more than my own projections. It has served well as far as more accurately regarding the quality of sports people, from the players on up through the ownership. If you take your own projections and hopes out of it as much as possible, that tends to end up as the problem with the accuracy. Very easy to say though. We are fans and we like to compromise on standards.

The easiest and most fair compromise comes early for the careers of these people. All you may have are projections and internal hype to go on. Until. The. Games. Begin. Believe in the games. Letting my own projections go quicker is my goal. And I want to form new perceptions based on game performances more than indulging in explanations for mediocrity.

Not to say there are not late bloomers, and circumstances which influence careers negatively, and the reasons bad outcomes happen are valid excuses. But realize that most of the time, if you are truly good, you are good quickly, and no one can stop you from being good.

[Peelboy]

Based on the fact that CW is the anti-Justin, I'm willing to bet the farm on CW's processing skills. We don't have a RB who can throw. We have a QB who can run, but prefers to pass when given the option. Justin never gave us any sign of the natural cerebral skills this kid has. CW IS Kobe!

Yeah, IMO CW has the yips (vs. a processing problem), but that doesn't mean you can cure the yips easily. It ended many a high pick QB career.

If it isn’t slower processing, it is indecision. When you watch Jayden Daniels, Daniels’ decision-making is leagues better and more decisive. Caleb’s decisions, if you want to call it a yips thing, I always thought yips were a lack of confidence at the point of pulling the trigger on a putt causing a miss. But you do pull the trigger. Caleb was more like Maverick in Top Gun after Goose died. Fails to engage, and he pulls the ball down.

Arm chair analysis here is that at his height, Caleb was shocked at the size and speed of the people rushing him up the middle, and he didn’t have enough time for receivers to get USC open before the scramble drill began. If he gets a little more room to operate between the tackles, that’s may help his confidence. But BJ is less likely to anllow extra time to scheme people wide open for Caleb to pull the trigger. No more of that. BJ wants Caleb to let it go on time, and let the receivers be the playmakers after catch.

I can't claim to have done some kind of thorough analysis of game tape, but to my eye, especially as the season went on, I could see Caleb's eyes dropping at the snap looking for pressure up the middle and then reorienting to scan the field. That jives with the fairly consistent pressure up the middle and then later on from the blind side (i.e., all spots but RT). So I attribute a reasonable portion of the "processing time" to getting battered and developing bad habits. QB processing and quick decisionmaking requires a constant eye focus on the field rather than the line.

That combined with no one working with him on tape (i.e., resulting in him being less prepared for what he's going to face) seems like a huge issue. And that's on top of a guy who was known to hold the ball in college, so kind of taking an uber talented guy with a weakness and then building a coaching and line designed to maximize that weakness.

I suspect/hope/expect that between Ben and the line upgrade, he's going to be MUCH better at maintaining focus downfield and show significantly improved decisionmaking and processing. We shall see.

[chitowndish]

I'm not too worried about the deep ball because he was good at it in college and I think one of the effects of our offense was DJ was half a$$ing it and you never know if he's going to be trying on a particular play and Keenan was extremely slow for a good part of the year with that injury and couldn't get open it's tough to have good timing. I also see the long pass as something that depends on a lot of other things to be working in an offense and there wasn't much that was functioning well in our offense last year. If he had issues with this previously yeah I'd start to be concerned but last year was the anomaly.

The thing that worries me is he spent I think just about all of his snaps in shotgun in college where you get a better view of the field and the average player is likely shorter but in the NFL he has to play under center a lot so I wonder if he's having issues seeing the middle of the field when he's under center. He seems to miss a lot of throws and notice open guys over the middle and usually close and a lot of the long throws he connects on are along the sidelines so this has me worried a bit. He's 6' 3" so I think he should be fine but maybe he more needs to get used to playing that close to the line.

The processing thing I don't think you can process the game well when you are running for your life back there and our interior offensive line was especially bad on obvious passing downs. The run game never really took pressure off etc. I don't think there are a lot of QB that are going to look good in that situation. Maybe he's not able to process the game well but I wouldn't come to that conclusion after last season. We'll see it should be apparent this year they did a good job with the coaching the IOL and the speed I think we needed so it's sink or swim for him.

[Dresden]

I think that with this O line, and these WR/TE's, Bagent should be able to be successful if for whatever reason Williams doesn't seem to be getting it.

[dice]

Caleb has this fear of interceptions, which isn’t a bad thing mind you but it manifests in bad ways. Holding the ball too long and taking a sack, overthrowing deep routes, throwing too hard with out the touch on the ball. Fleet said it too he wants to USC it and make a play but at the same time when he does NFL defenses are much better and he is scared of a turnover. He either has to change that mindset or change the way he plays and not let it be hero ball.

This specific issue - Caleb being scared to throw b/c he wanted to avoid picks - seems very much to be a coaching thing.

It'll be interesting to see how that changes, because Johnson has noted specifically that modern thinking has evolved to focus on Expected Points Added. For EPA, sacks are generally viewed as more damaging than picks, so theoretically the priorities may shift.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/ben-johnson-shared-forward-thinking-234247627.html

The goat didn't do hero ball and he better be the model moving forward. CW needs to give up on that failed strategy. This kid will adjust appropriately because he's too smart not to. Don't try to be Mahomes too fast, CW! We **** love you! Even Mahomes wasn't Mahomes until he adjusted appropriately. CW IS KOBE!!!!

mahomes sat his rookie year and was MVP his 2nd

[fleet]

Brisker, yes. Can do without more Toast

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[chitowndish]

I’d also say the reasons I’m hopeful for Caleb as a processor is he did spread the ball around well to different options and didn’t get hyper focused on one guy like Fields. He also did a decent job of feeding the hot hand so if someone was having a good game he got them the ball so these are things that I think of as almost good PG skills it isn’t just random he’s trying to dictate and manage the offense. The other was he did progress throughout the season against tougher competition his trajectory continued to improve even while the coaching was chaotic.

Then one thing I liked that is unrelated to processing is through all of those sacks he still stood in the pocket took hits and tried to deliver the ball. Maybe he shouldn’t have so much but he’s tough and is willing to put it on the line for the team so it’s a good thing to see out of a player. Especially when you have a WR walking off the field while it’s happening.

[Hold That]

I’d also say the reasons I’m hopeful for Caleb as a processor is he did spread the ball around well to different options and didn’t get hyper focused on one guy like Fields. He also did a decent job of feeding the hot hand so if someone was having a good game he got them the ball so these are things that I think of as almost good PG skills it isn’t just random he’s trying to dictate and manage the offense. The other was he did progress throughout the season against tougher competition his trajectory continued to improve even while the coaching was chaotic.

Then one thing I liked that is unrelated to processing is through all of those sacks he still stood in the pocket took hits and tried to deliver the ball. Maybe he shouldn’t have so much but he’s tough and is willing to put it on the line for the team so it’s a good thing to see out of a player. Especially when you have a WR walking off the field while it’s happening.

This right here is what sold me on Caleb that so many people are not mentioning.

A rookie QB goes into the toughest part of the schedule with a new OC and head coach, and still performs well and keeps the bears in the game and competitive against 3 top 10 teams.

That sold me. He was supposed to have played some of his worst ball of the year when you factor in the coaching changes and the elite defenses he was going against.

It just amazes me how high the expectations are for this kid. Almost unattainable. You look at his stats and coaching situation and don’t walk away impressed? Nothing will impress you unless it’s record breaking.

[chitowndish]

This right here is what sold me on Caleb that so many people are not mentioning.

A rookie QB goes into the toughest part of the schedule with a new OC and head coach, and still performs well and keeps the bears in the game and competitive against 3 top 10 teams.

That sold me. He was supposed to have played some of his worst ball of the year when you factor in the coaching changes and the elite defenses he was going against.

It just amazes me how high the expectations are for this kid. Almost unattainable. You look at his stats and coaching situation and don’t walk away impressed? Nothing will impress you unless it’s record breaking.

The progression thing is even more impressive after what came out about the coaching. Nobody is going over film with the kid, DJ was basically in open revolt at the incompetence of the OC and all through the year Caleb was getting better and better. I remember saying earlier during the season Waldron looks like a crappy coach but I'm impressed about the progress I was seeing with Caleb so maybe he's just not a good in game play caller but it seems like Caleb was doing that completely on his own having to go through his own tape.

[Susan]

Caleb's a finger pointer.