People were interested in these podcasts
Image ImageImage Image

Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett (UPDATE OP POST)

Moderators: HomoSapien, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23

User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 58,060
And1: 18,333
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#61 » by dougthonus » Tue May 27, 2025 6:43 pm

MGB8 wrote:I’m not worried about the TS. Like I wrote, the biggest hit was an awful year from the line (over 7% worse than career average). Also, it was another year where he had a lot of time playing without a true point (Barnes isn’t good at it). Even when he was playing without a point or quasi point (not a believer in Mitchell), he had a number of lineups where he was the default “4” (Mitchell/IQ-Agbaji-Dick-RJ-Poetl) - and per 82 games, those were when his game suffered the most.


You aren't worried about the efficiency of a volume scorer whom is 5% below the league average for his career, and not sure he's hit league average even once (he was certainly right about average in 23/24 at 58%). I feel like that's a thing you should be worried about.

It’s a gamble, sure. But there is enough there in terms of skillset and production to make it a reasonable gamble - that playing with a PG, not playing the default “4” where he is very undersized will return his numbers to what was seen after he arrived in TO (with IQ healthy to start), possibly improve from there (youth / trajectory / better fit).


I don't see much of a case that this is a reasonable gamble. Part of that would be based on agreeing to how good he is now. I'd say he is a negative asset today and is paid more than his value. I'd also say given the total number of minutes he has played that more than iterative improvements forward are unlikely. I don't think he's an iterative improvement away from being a valuable player on his deal.

If you are dumping Patrick / Carter for him and we're doing a trash for trash trade, sure. He's not a guy I'd give up a draft pick for, especially considering the broader context of this team and its position.
http://linktr.ee/bullsbeat - links to the bullsbeat podcast
@doug_thonus on twitter
User avatar
dawhizz
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,302
And1: 593
Joined: May 11, 2007

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#62 » by dawhizz » Tue May 27, 2025 6:45 pm

bullskokie wrote:Hard pass! Id keep Pat for another year… i can feel he will break out next season. Its now or never for Pat!


Searching for a gif of Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown . . .
"I'd go with Tyrus Thomas at small forward." - Sam Smith
User avatar
DuckIII
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 71,256
And1: 36,537
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
Location: On my high horse.
     

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#63 » by DuckIII » Tue May 27, 2025 6:47 pm

boozapalooza wrote:
Quote tweeting every sentence doesn’t mean you’re right.


Correct. But it means I respected the discussion enough to address each point you tried to make. So what's the problem?

Retaining our pick without protection was the key asset we got back in the Zach trade. Do you honestly think AK is gonna immediately give that up to acquire a RJ Barrett??? Regardless of what you think of AK, that’s absurd.


Its absurd to call him doing exactly what he has done repeatedly (Vuc and DDR) absurd. Of course its not only entirely possible that AK made sure he got that pick back so he could trade it for a veteran, its supported by his own history. What are you talking about? He's done this over and over.

Its also why he opted for a plug and play guy like Giddey over draft picks. Everything he does (until he has no options left) is for short term gains.

He just nailed the Matas at 11 pick and surely thinks he will be able to do it again, based on public comments he has made. He has also stressed maintaining financial flexbility. So why would we give up #12 and more for the luxury of committing $30M/year to RJ Barrett?


To compete at a higher level with veterans as quickly as possible and thereby avoid the lottery next year. I.e., what he has told us repeatedly he prefers as a team building strategy and then acted accordingly.

I don’t mind Barrett but he isn’t being traded for an unprotected lotto pick.


Hopefully not.
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
MGB8
RealGM
Posts: 18,831
And1: 3,543
Joined: Jul 20, 2001
Location: Philly

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#64 » by MGB8 » Tue May 27, 2025 7:01 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MGB8 wrote:I’m not worried about the TS. Like I wrote, the biggest hit was an awful year from the line (over 7% worse than career average). Also, it was another year where he had a lot of time playing without a true point (Barnes isn’t good at it). Even when he was playing without a point or quasi point (not a believer in Mitchell), he had a number of lineups where he was the default “4” (Mitchell/IQ-Agbaji-Dick-RJ-Poetl) - and per 82 games, those were when his game suffered the most.


You aren't worried about the efficiency of a volume scorer whom is 5% below the league average for his career, and not sure he's hit league average even once (he was certainly right about average in 23/24 at 58%). I feel like that's a thing you should be worried about.

It’s a gamble, sure. But there is enough there in terms of skillset and production to make it a reasonable gamble - that playing with a PG, not playing the default “4” where he is very undersized will return his numbers to what was seen after he arrived in TO (with IQ healthy to start), possibly improve from there (youth / trajectory / better fit).


I don't see much of a case that this is a reasonable gamble. Part of that would be based on agreeing to how good he is now. I'd say he is a negative asset today and is paid more than his value. I'd also say given the total number of minutes he has played that more than iterative improvements forward are unlikely. I don't think he's an iterative improvement away from being a valuable player on his deal.

If you are dumping Patrick / Carter for him and we're doing a trash for trash trade, sure. He's not a guy I'd give up a draft pick for, especially considering the broader context of this team and its position.


Not particularly concerned given context. For SG and SF, per statmuse the league average TS% was right around 57%. RJ was an admittedly poor 55%. But you know who else was at 54-56%? Banchero at 55. Klay at 55. CJ McCullom at 55. Vassell at 55.. Franz Wagner at 56. Fox at 56. Bam at 56 (and a big). Maxey at 56. Morant at 56. Jaylen Brown at 56. Jalen Green and Paul George and Brandon Miller at 54. Scottie Barnes at 52. Nembhard at 55 (just below RJ).

Great lead scorers like Donovan Mitchell and James Harden at 58. Cade Cunningham at (rounding all way up) 57.

So, no, 55 given situation in TO doesn't worry me particularly. The low FT% that contributed a good chunk to the low TS actually worries me a touch more - why has he been a 63% FT shooter in TO when was over 70% and trending up in NY?
User avatar
DuckIII
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 71,256
And1: 36,537
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
Location: On my high horse.
     

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#65 » by DuckIII » Tue May 27, 2025 7:05 pm

Those guys all do other stuff. Barrett is a "scorer" who scores inefficiently and does virtually nothing else that any other guard cannot do. He's an extremely poor man's Lavine making $30 million a year.
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
League Circles
RealGM
Posts: 35,202
And1: 9,871
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#66 » by League Circles » Tue May 27, 2025 7:12 pm

DuckIII wrote:Those guys all do other stuff. Barrett is a "scorer" who scores inefficiently and does virtually nothing else. He's an extremely poor man's Lavine making $30 million a year.


This. And, also, frankly, a number of the guys listed aren't really the type of players that we should be looking to to help launch us into serious contention.

Further, I'm sure a bunch of those guys spent plenty of time scoring at higher efficiency. Whereas Barrett has been remarkably consistently below average.
https://august-shop.com/ - sneakers and streetwear
boozapalooza
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,575
And1: 952
Joined: Jun 26, 2013

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#67 » by boozapalooza » Tue May 27, 2025 7:16 pm

DuckIII wrote:
boozapalooza wrote:
Quote tweeting every sentence doesn’t mean you’re right.


Correct. But it means I respected the discussion enough to address each point you tried to make. So what's the problem?

Retaining our pick without protection was the key asset we got back in the Zach trade. Do you honestly think AK is gonna immediately give that up to acquire a RJ Barrett??? Regardless of what you think of AK, that’s absurd.


Its absurd to call him doing exactly what he has done repeatedly (Vuc and DDR) absurd. Of course its not only entirely possible that AK made sure he got that pick back so he could trade it for a veteran, its supported by his own history. What are you talking about? He's done this over and over.

Its also why he opted for a plug and play guy like Giddey over draft picks. Everything thing he does (until he has no options left) is for short term gains.

He just nailed the Matas at 11 pick and surely thinks he will be able to do it again, based on public comments he has made. He has also stressed maintaining financial flexbility. So why would we give up #12 and more for the luxury of committing $30M/year to RJ Barrett?


To compete at a higher level with veterans as quickly as possible and thereby avoid the lottery next year. I.e., what he has told us repeatedly he prefers as a team building strategy and then acted accordingly.

I don’t mind Barrett but he isn’t being traded for an unprotected lotto pick.


Hopefully not.


My view on it is AK pushed his chips all in back in 2020/2021 with the Vuc/DDR trades. He fully went for it and the plan backfired. Clearly, we are not in the same place now, AK has said as much. I don’t think its in AK’s DNA to give away 1st rounders like they’re candy on Halloween. Though he for sure views 2nd rounders that way. He hasn’t traded a 1st rounder since DDR trade 4 years ago.

I can get behind trading #12 (plus much more) for a Giannis, Ja, Zion type. Maybe even with Vuc for Sabonis. But certainly not for RJ. I just don’t think RJ’s value is there nowadays, even coming off of a decent season.
User avatar
DuckIII
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 71,256
And1: 36,537
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
Location: On my high horse.
     

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#68 » by DuckIII » Tue May 27, 2025 7:47 pm

boozapalooza wrote:He hasn’t traded a 1st rounder since DDR trade 4 years ago.



We've only had 2. Because he traded the other ones. And he traded this year's too. We just were able to get it back in a horribly inefficient Lavine trade. That's 3 of our last 5 first rounders that he traded for "cheap vet stars to help us win now." Its a very real risk he does it again.
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
MGB8
RealGM
Posts: 18,831
And1: 3,543
Joined: Jul 20, 2001
Location: Philly

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#69 » by MGB8 » Tue May 27, 2025 7:52 pm

DuckIII wrote:Those guys all do other stuff. Barrett is a "scorer" who scores inefficiently and does virtually nothing else that any other guard cannot do. He's an extremely poor man's Lavine making $30 million a year.


RJ put up 23.6 pts, 7 rebounds, 6 assists per 36 (he plays a bit over 32 mpg). It’s not as if he doesn’t provide secondary creation (a la LaVine) or team rebounding.

Meanwhile, many of the guys I listed with similar poor to mid efficiency are just “scorers”, often providing little on D, from the best of them in Mitchell to guys like Warner, CJ, Jalen Green, Brandon Miller.

He is in the LaVine role, and not as efficient… but also younger, cheaper, and without the boneheaded-in-the-clutch tendencies that really doomed Zach. He is a (somewhat) better ball handler than Zach, which helps.

If LaVine was 5 1/2 years younger and getting paid around 28.5 for the next 2 years rather than just over 48 M on average for the next 2… well, put it this way, Coby is likely to get more than what RJ is making for the same “scoring and little else” role, with less consistency, actually less in assists per 36 (and less rebounding, too), and less defensive potential (which may never be realized by RJ, sure).

If RJ were more efficient and/or a better defender, then the notion of getting him with the #12 pick and basically null value salary wise would be laughable. He’d be worth a lot more. It is a gamble that he can get the efficiency up (and improves on D).
pipfan
RealGM
Posts: 12,223
And1: 4,202
Joined: Aug 07, 2010

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#70 » by pipfan » Tue May 27, 2025 7:53 pm

PWill/Ayo/Port pick is best I would do
User avatar
DuckIII
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 71,256
And1: 36,537
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
Location: On my high horse.
     

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#71 » by DuckIII » Tue May 27, 2025 7:57 pm

MGB8 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Those guys all do other stuff. Barrett is a "scorer" who scores inefficiently and does virtually nothing else that any other guard cannot do. He's an extremely poor man's Lavine making $30 million a year.


RJ put up 23.6 pts, 7 rebounds, 6 assists per 36 (he plays a bit over 32 mpg). It’s not as if he doesn’t provide secondary creation (a la LaVine) or team rebounding.

Meanwhile, many of the guys ai listed are just “scorers”, often providing little on D, from the best of them in Mitchell to guys like Warner, CJ, Jalen Green, Brandon Miller.

He is in the LaVine role, and not as efficient… but also younger, cheaper, and without the boneheaded-in-the-clutch tendencies that really doomed Zach. He is a (somewhat) better ball handler than Zach, which helps.

If LaVine was 5 1/2 years younger and getting paid around 28.5 for the next 2 years rather than just over 48 M on average for the next 2… well, put it this way, Coby is likely to get more than what RJ is making for the same “scoring and little else” role, with less consistency, actually less in assists per 36 (and less rebounding, too), and less defensive potential (which may never be realized by RJ, sure).


You are pretty clearly on an island here, so there's not much point continuing to debate it. But just looking at the data Coby is a massively better scorer than RJ Barrett and he's actually trending upwards. Why would I give up a lottery pick to get an older, higher paid, worse shooting guard than the one I already have on the roster?
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
SirKaiser
Sophomore
Posts: 197
And1: 97
Joined: Jan 05, 2022

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#72 » by SirKaiser » Tue May 27, 2025 7:58 pm

If it was something like PWill and the Portland pick, I'd be fine but not enthusiastic about it.

But why? I don't see how this would help us considering the guard logjam we already have. Do we make this trade to let Coby go? Unless Coby is demanding more than the 4 year/89 mil, I'd much rather keep him
MGB8
RealGM
Posts: 18,831
And1: 3,543
Joined: Jul 20, 2001
Location: Philly

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#73 » by MGB8 » Tue May 27, 2025 8:02 pm

DuckIII wrote:
MGB8 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Those guys all do other stuff. Barrett is a "scorer" who scores inefficiently and does virtually nothing else that any other guard cannot do. He's an extremely poor man's Lavine making $30 million a year.


RJ put up 23.6 pts, 7 rebounds, 6 assists per 36 (he plays a bit over 32 mpg). It’s not as if he doesn’t provide secondary creation (a la LaVine) or team rebounding.

Meanwhile, many of the guys ai listed are just “scorers”, often providing little on D, from the best of them in Mitchell to guys like Warner, CJ, Jalen Green, Brandon Miller.

He is in the LaVine role, and not as efficient… but also younger, cheaper, and without the boneheaded-in-the-clutch tendencies that really doomed Zach. He is a (somewhat) better ball handler than Zach, which helps.

If LaVine was 5 1/2 years younger and getting paid around 28.5 for the next 2 years rather than just over 48 M on average for the next 2… well, put it this way, Coby is likely to get more than what RJ is making for the same “scoring and little else” role, with less consistency, actually less in assists per 36 (and less rebounding, too), and less defensive potential (which may never be realized by RJ, sure).


You are pretty clearly on an island here, so there's not much point continuing to debate it. But just looking at the data Coby is a massively better scorer than RJ Barrett and he's actually trending upwards. Why would I give up a lottery pick to get an older, higher paid, worse shooting guard than the one I already have on the roster?



Because every time Coby has real pressure on him, he has crapped out, likely because he is an undersized shooting guard with poor length who is inconsistent from 3 and lacks superstar explosiveness, making him have a hard time finishing inside against decent defenses.

Meanwhile RJ is not undersized, has superstar level explosiveness (that is what got him drafted top 2), doesn’t struggle to finish inside, and while he hasn’t had the improvement on a skill in the way Coby has improved his handle, has shown progress on various things that suggests upside.

Massively better? Not at all. RJ has always outproduced Coby, and while Coby is more efficient, he is far less reliable.

As I said before - (1) it would be a gamble (but I don’t value the 12 much, absent KJ falling - Ayo + moving Pat offset and are null value), and (2) I think the Bulls need to hedge on Coby - who IMO is more likely than not unable to be a lead scorer on a good team (where RJ, IMO, has a somewhat better, if not a ton better, chance of being that guy).
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 58,060
And1: 18,333
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#74 » by dougthonus » Tue May 27, 2025 8:50 pm

MGB8 wrote:Not particularly concerned given context. For SG and SF, per statmuse the league average TS% was right around 57%. RJ was an admittedly poor 55%. But you know who else was at 54-56%? Banchero at 55. Klay at 55. CJ McCullom at 55. Vassell at 55.. Franz Wagner at 56. Fox at 56. Bam at 56 (and a big). Maxey at 56. Morant at 56. Jaylen Brown at 56. Jalen Green and Paul George and Brandon Miller at 54. Scottie Barnes at 52. Nembhard at 55 (just below RJ).

Great lead scorers like Donovan Mitchell and James Harden at 58. Cade Cunningham at (rounding all way up) 57.

So, no, 55 given situation in TO doesn't worry me particularly. The low FT% that contributed a good chunk to the low TS actually worries me a touch more - why has he been a 63% FT shooter in TO when was over 70% and trending up in NY?


An interesting set of data points, and I appreciate you going through and finding them. When I look through them I generally come up with the idea the problem is all those other guys are either guys I wouldn't want at Barrett's price or guys that offer a lot of other things that Barrett doesn't.

So I guess, I will amend my thoughts to, a guy like Barrett strikes me as homeless man's Zach LaVine. He's a scorer that doesn't feel like he helps me in other ways, except he also isn't a super efficient one like Zach but is known to have a lot of the same other flaws from my understanding (poor decision maker / poor clutch guy / poor defender / easy to stop dude when it matters / non winner). You can argue how many of those things have merit of course, and as someone who admittedly hasn't seen a ton of him, I don't have strong thoughts, but I'm still at a point where I'd lean towards bad contract, no better than Coby, and not a guy I'd give up a draft pick for.
http://linktr.ee/bullsbeat - links to the bullsbeat podcast
@doug_thonus on twitter
User avatar
JohnnyTapwater
Analyst
Posts: 3,188
And1: 1,632
Joined: Nov 06, 2009
Location: Chicago
   

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#75 » by JohnnyTapwater » Tue May 27, 2025 8:51 pm

If this gets Pat off the roster, it's a steal.
User avatar
Repeat 3-peat
RealGM
Posts: 14,887
And1: 15,399
Joined: Nov 02, 2013
 

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#76 » by Repeat 3-peat » Tue May 27, 2025 8:52 pm

No.
Image
WindyCityBorn
RealGM
Posts: 22,109
And1: 11,788
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
     

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#77 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue May 27, 2025 9:31 pm

MGB8 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
League Circles wrote:

High level scorer? Barrett has been quite inefficient for his whole career outside of a 32 game stretch with Toronto the year before last.

Coby was significantly more efficient scoring inside than Barrett last year.

No reason for Barrett unless it gets rid of Patrick's deal and another losable asset. Even then I really question it.


This.

Surpised MG wants Barrett. Didn’t see that one coming. Expecially for 12. His value is nowhere close to that.


You don't think RJ Barrett is worth a late lotto pick in the middle 3rd of the first? At his age?

I think it's a calculated gamble and potential steal. Pat's negative value offset by Ayo's positive, plus a late lotto pick that may well be nothing, for a guy who has proven that he can be a 1st option on a bad team and had stretches where he looked like more. Remember that RJ shot 44% from 3 on mid volume for Canada when playing with SGA and Nembhard. Yeah, tiny sample, but he has had stretches where he shoots at a + level in the league, too. The question is effort and feel on D moreso than shot, and I think that there is room for optimism on that front, too.


I don’t. Barrett has been given every opportunity in the world shine already. He doesn’t have it.
User avatar
Axl Rose
Head Coach
Posts: 6,832
And1: 4,079
Joined: Jul 03, 2013
Location: Superunknown

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#78 » by Axl Rose » Tue May 27, 2025 9:38 pm

I have a feeling they will hold their cards to go after Jaylen Brown.
I don't do the dishes, I throw them in the crib
League Circles
RealGM
Posts: 35,202
And1: 9,871
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#79 » by League Circles » Tue May 27, 2025 9:48 pm

On a related note though, if you go through and look at all the non stars with expiring large deals for guys that probably aren't valued by their teams, the list is very short. These are guys I'd try to trade Vuc in a deal for.

The list is basically Khris Middleton and Terry Rozier. Possibly Anfernee Simmons.
https://august-shop.com/ - sneakers and streetwear
Indomitable
RealGM
Posts: 25,167
And1: 6,293
Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Location: Yelzenbah!
     

Re: Rumor: Bulls Interested in RJ Barrett 

Post#80 » by Indomitable » Tue May 27, 2025 9:52 pm

KissedByaRose1 wrote:Barrett for Williams would be the best move AK has made outside of drafting Matas since he got here. Not holding my breath.

Giddey
White
Matas
Barrett
Maluach

Would definitely get me back watching every night again though.

How are we getting Maliach
:banghead:

Return to Chicago Bulls