NBA Trade Thread #13

[sco]

Noa doesn't even have good strength compared to other wings. I'm not sure how you can project him being a big in the future when he may never have the functional strength to play the 5.

Things can change a lot in a year, less alone two or more.. dont know whats the point of that post

Giannis didn't start playing minutes at the 5 consistently until year 6-7, and he had one of the most ridiculous physical transformations in league history. Giannis also still plays most of his minutes at the 4.

Noa is years away from this happening if it ever does, which is highly unlikely. Way too much, he's a future 5 stuff. Just because things can change doesn't mean we should expect things with a low probability to happen. He's a 3/4.

Yeah, can someone explain why we want him playing the 5? Is it because he's bad and we want good players at the 3/4? I do agree that the 5 position is suited for guys who can't score off the dribble and aren't good 3pt shooters, but I feel like once you go 5 you can never go back (because you generally need to bulk up and slow down). I'd much rather see if he can be a 4...it may take a few years.

[WesPeace]

Noa doesn't even have good strength compared to other wings. I'm not sure how you can project him being a big in the future when he may never have the functional strength to play the 5.

Things can change a lot in a year, less alone two or more.. dont know whats the point of that post

Giannis didn't start playing minutes at the 5 consistently until year 6-7, and he had one of the most ridiculous physical transformations in league history. Giannis also still plays most of his minutes at the 4.

Noa is years away from this happening if it ever does, which is highly unlikely. Way too much, he's a future 5 stuff. Just because things can change doesn't mean we should expect things with a low probability to happen. He's a 3/4.

Yes, he is very likely to be 4.. but I dont see him as SF in future, more of a small ball C

[Infinity2152]

Lot depends on what people are calling a center, or the necessity for a traditional "center" at all. Seems like teams are looking for shot blocking, rebounding and shooting in centers nowadays, and prioritizing that over size. So if you have Matas and Noa starting, would the best lineup have another 6'10-7' guy, or would we be better running a smaller wing player? We have a 260 lb center now everybody wants gone, lol. Centers are asked to switch on guards nowadays. 7 footers get killed a LOT on those switches.

Don't see how that question could be answered without seeing it in action. What are you really giving up playing Noa at center besides weight, really? He's 18, likely to gain some weight. He'll probably be better guarding perimeter players than most centers. Likely a better shooter too, most traditional centers are not good three point shooters. We're going to miss Vucevic's three point shooting volume.

So let's not call him "center". Can we play with those two 6'10 players as our bigs if Noa's a good-great player? Think Noa could end up a better perimeter defender, shot blocker and rim protector than Naz Reid, who a lot of us were pretty high on. Massive defensive upgrade on Vucevic and Collins in every way.

[2weekswithpay]

I look at the 2022-23 Raptors and their experiment to play a bunch of 6'7-6'9 guys with mixed results, and ultimately traded for Poeltl at the deadline because they needed an actual center. Now, this doesn't mean that these experiments don't work, with the right coaching, scheming, and personnel, you can benefit from these wonky adjustments. Like OKC putting Caruso on Jokic or their micro ball lineups.

I'm not against playing him at the 5. I think we give up quite a bit playing Noa at the 5 right now. He doesn't set good screens, I'm not sure he can finish over NBA bigs, and he can't take them off the dribble either. Maybe he'll be able to do these things in the future. What competitive advantages do we gain from playing him at the 5? We can switch, but this isn't 2015, NBA teams know how to attack switches. The Raptors' experiment showed that sometimes you need someone to do big man stuff.

[Infinity2152]

I look at the 2022-23 Raptors and their experiment to play a bunch of 6'7-6'9 guys with mixed results, and ultimately traded for Poeltl at the deadline because they needed an actual center. Now, this doesn't mean that these experiments don't work, with the right coaching, scheming, and personnel, you can benefit from these wonky adjustments. Like OKC putting Caruso on Jokic or their micro ball lineups.

I'm not against playing him at the 5. I think we give up quite a bit playing Noa at the 5 right now. He doesn't set good screens, I'm not sure he can finish over NBA bigs, and he can't take them off the dribble either. Maybe he'll be able to do these things in the future. What competitive advantages do we gain from playing him at the 5? We can switch, but this isn't 2015, NBA teams know how to attack switches. The Raptors' experiment showed that sometimes you need someone to do big man stuff.

Yeah, definitely not hoping for him to play the 5 right now full time. But I don't think its a bad idea if he gets some minutes there. The NBA is changing, I wouldn't look at Noa's build right now and say he couldn't be a very effective modern center in a few years. Think Matas and Pat Will will eat a lot of PF minutes. With a Vucevic trade, some minutes will open up. Noa will need to get minutes wherever he can year 1.

OKC signed Hartenstein and won a championship. He only played 22 minutes/gm. They played small ball center a LOT, unless you're counting Holgrem at center. We have a 6'8" PG. With two 6'10 players on the court with him, we're not a small team by most standards.

And I think most teams switch all the time, regardless on NBA teams knowing how to attack switches. In every situation guarding any player other than a big center, Noa is probably better than all our current centers right now. Faster and more capable of rim running/back dooring than any of our centers by far. Probably a better shot blocker. How could it hurt? Take minutes away from Vuc or Collins? Even in blowouts?

The though is we want to be a running team. A lighter weight, athletic, fast center is almost a must in that type of offense anyway.

[Chi town]

I look at the 2022-23 Raptors and their experiment to play a bunch of 6'7-6'9 guys with mixed results, and ultimately traded for Poeltl at the deadline because they needed an actual center. Now, this doesn't mean that these experiments don't work, with the right coaching, scheming, and personnel, you can benefit from these wonky adjustments. Like OKC putting Caruso on Jokic or their micro ball lineups.

I'm not against playing him at the 5. I think we give up quite a bit playing Noa at the 5 right now. He doesn't set good screens, I'm not sure he can finish over NBA bigs, and he can't take them off the dribble either. Maybe he'll be able to do these things in the future. What competitive advantages do we gain from playing him at the 5? We can switch, but this isn't 2015, NBA teams know how to attack switches. The Raptors' experiment showed that sometimes you need someone to do big man stuff.

Yeah, definitely not hoping for him to play the 5 right now full time. But I don't think its a bad idea if he gets some minutes there. The NBA is changing, I wouldn't look at Noa's build right now and say he couldn't be a very effective modern center in a few years. Think Matas and Pat Will will eat a lot of PF minutes. With a Vucevic trade, some minutes will open up. Noa will need to get minutes wherever he can year 1.

OKC signed Hartenstein and won a championship. He only played 22 minutes/gm. They played small ball center a LOT, unless you're counting Holgrem at center. We have a 6'8" PG. With two 6'10 players on the court with him, we're not a small team by most standards.

And I think most teams switch all the time, regardless on NBA teams knowing how to attack switches. In every situation guarding any player other than a big center, Noa is probably better than all our current centers right now. Faster and more capable of rim running/back dooring than any of our centers by far. Probably a better shot blocker. How could it hurt? Take minutes away from Vuc or Collins?

Yeah I see us getting a young C that rim protects and Noa playing the 4 next to him with Buz at the 3. Noa would be the backup smallball C and split his mins at the 4 and 5 with Buz playing the 4 with is at the 5 at times.

[Infinity2152]

I'm basically looking at if Giddey, Matas, Noa are all starters. Expecting us to either re-sign Coby and add one starter or sign two new starters. We don't know what size or positions those guys will be. If we add a star SG and/or SF, Noa and Matas are playing 4 and 5 basically. The SF could be 6'8, 6'9 too. With the overall length in the lineup, don't think sacrificing a little weight will outweigh the potential advantages. I still haven't heard any real argument against Noa playing center other than weight.

If we add a star PF, Noa could maybe play SF, but he still might be more suited to play 5 than Matas or that star PF. Say it's a Tatum type. Or even Kuminga.

Most of all, I wouldn't say he can't do it before giving him a chance. Caruso wasn't always even close to that good on defense, and he's guarding PF's now. Javonte Green too. There's a lot more to basketball than physical build. Don't know about anyone else, but I'm more hopeful about his defensive upside than offensive, whatever position he's called. It's always just 5 guys on the court, regardless of what we call them.

If he becomes a lockdown defender in the next couple years, think he could play 3, 4, or 5 and be just fine depending on the rest of the roster. Most centers don't post up nowadays anyway. Mostly talking about in blowouts, injuries, etc year 1. Get him some extra on the court minutes. Billy seems to like to run small.

[Moon]

A lot of focus on Simons....Could he be flipped for Walter Kessler or Derrick Lively3?
Boston gets Vuc.....Utah gets Simons...Chicago gets Kessler....
Boston gets a rental with Vuc, Utah gets a guard, a sign and trade for Kessler and Chicago gets a young rim protector for going forward.

[Andi Obst]

A lot of focus on Simons....Could he be flipped for Walter Kessler or Derrick Lively3?
Boston gets Vuc.....Utah gets Simons...Chicago gets Kessler....
Boston gets a rental with Vuc, Utah gets a guard, a sign and trade for Kessler and Chicago gets a young rim protector for going forward.

Pretty sure Utah didn't dump Sexton and buy out Clarkson to take on the next score-first, no-defense guard. They want to play their young guys (and/or it seems like they're very serious about tanking from day 1 this year).

[ChettheJet]

I'm basically looking at if Giddey, Matas, Noa are all starters. Expecting us to either re-sign Coby and add one starter or sign two new starters. We don't know what size or positions those guys will be. If we add a star SG and/or SF, Noa and Matas are playing 4 and 5 basically. The SF could be 6'8, 6'9 too. With the overall length in the lineup, don't think sacrificing a little weight will outweigh the potential advantages. I still haven't heard any real argument against Noa playing center other than weight.

If we add a star PF, Noa could maybe play SF, but he still might be more suited to play 5 than Matas or that star PF. Say it's a Tatum type. Or even Kuminga.

Most of all, I wouldn't say he can't do it before giving him a chance. Caruso wasn't always even close to that good on defense, and he's guarding PF's now. Javonte Green too. There's a lot more to basketball than physical build. Don't know about anyone else, but I'm more hopeful about his defensive upside than offensive, whatever position he's called. It's always just 5 guys on the court, regardless of what we call them.

If he becomes a lockdown defender in the next couple years, think he could play 3, 4, or 5 and be just fine depending on the rest of the roster. Most centers don't post up nowadays anyway. Mostly talking about in blowouts, injuries, etc year 1. Get him some extra on the court minutes. Billy seems to like to run small.

Were you around when there was a group around here who thought Lauri Markkanen should have been played at the center? Thay had all kinds of rationalizations for it, and refused to be told otherwise and to this day probably think the NBAand the teams he's been on are so wrong. I remember those posters who saw 7-1 tall and refused to get it out of their heads that he should be the 5.

[Celts17Pride]

A lot of focus on Simons....Could he be flipped for Walter Kessler or Derrick Lively3?
Boston gets Vuc.....Utah gets Simons...Chicago gets Kessler....
Boston gets a rental with Vuc, Utah gets a guard, a sign and trade for Kessler and Chicago gets a young rim protector for going forward.

As a Celtics fan, I can tell you Vucevic is exactly the type of player the Celtics don't want for many reasons. The biggest reason is Vucevic might help the Celtics win games this season (which they don't necessarily want to do because of their draft pick) and the Celtics won't resign him. Celtics have the same problem with Simons. If they are forced to go with one, they will pick the younger Simons and give him a look.

[Chi town]

Things can change a lot in a year, less alone two or more.. dont know whats the point of that post

Giannis didn't start playing minutes at the 5 consistently until year 6-7, and he had one of the most ridiculous physical transformations in league history. Giannis also still plays most of his minutes at the 4.

Noa is years away from this happening if it ever does, which is highly unlikely. Way too much, he's a future 5 stuff. Just because things can change doesn't mean we should expect things with a low probability to happen. He's a 3/4.

Yes, he is very likely to be 4.. but I dont see him as SF in future, more of a small ball C

Noa has nearly the same measurements as Giannis coming in while being younger and weighing ten more pounds.

He will add weight. Hopefully it’s athletic muscle and dead weight like Pat.

[Chi town]

A lot of focus on Simons....Could he be flipped for Walter Kessler or Derrick Lively3?
Boston gets Vuc.....Utah gets Simons...Chicago gets Kessler....
Boston gets a rental with Vuc, Utah gets a guard, a sign and trade for Kessler and Chicago gets a young rim protector for going forward.

As a Celtics fan, I can tell you Vucevic is exactly the type of player the Celtics don't want for many reasons. The biggest reason is Vucevic might help the Celtics win games this season (which they don't necessarily want to do because of their draft pick) and the Celtics won't resign him. Celtics have the same problem with Simons. If they are forced to go with one, they will pick the younger Simons and give him a look.

You really think Celts can tank in the awful East with Brown and White?

I don’t. They’d need an injury riddled season like Sixers had.

[Chi town]

I'm basically looking at if Giddey, Matas, Noa are all starters. Expecting us to either re-sign Coby and add one starter or sign two new starters. We don't know what size or positions those guys will be. If we add a star SG and/or SF, Noa and Matas are playing 4 and 5 basically. The SF could be 6'8, 6'9 too. With the overall length in the lineup, don't think sacrificing a little weight will outweigh the potential advantages. I still haven't heard any real argument against Noa playing center other than weight.

If we add a star PF, Noa could maybe play SF, but he still might be more suited to play 5 than Matas or that star PF. Say it's a Tatum type. Or even Kuminga.

Most of all, I wouldn't say he can't do it before giving him a chance. Caruso wasn't always even close to that good on defense, and he's guarding PF's now. Javonte Green too. There's a lot more to basketball than physical build. Don't know about anyone else, but I'm more hopeful about his defensive upside than offensive, whatever position he's called. It's always just 5 guys on the court, regardless of what we call them.

If he becomes a lockdown defender in the next couple years, think he could play 3, 4, or 5 and be just fine depending on the rest of the roster. Most centers don't post up nowadays anyway. Mostly talking about in blowouts, injuries, etc year 1. Get him some extra on the court minutes. Billy seems to like to run small.

Were you around when there was a group around here who thought Lauri Markkanen should have been played at the center? Thay had all kinds of rationalizations for it, and refused to be told otherwise and to this day probably think the NBAand the teams he's been on are so wrong. I remember those posters who saw 7-1 tall and refused to get it out of their heads that he should be the 5.

We won’t be adding any more 3/4s. It will be a big 5 imo.

I remember Lauri. I was interested in seeing him at the 5 but not bulked up. Purely stretch 5 chucking 3s. He bulked up and slowed down and had a hard time moving and scoring. He’s def not a 5. Can’t protect the rim at all.

[Celts17Pride]

A lot of focus on Simons....Could he be flipped for Walter Kessler or Derrick Lively3?
Boston gets Vuc.....Utah gets Simons...Chicago gets Kessler....
Boston gets a rental with Vuc, Utah gets a guard, a sign and trade for Kessler and Chicago gets a young rim protector for going forward.

As a Celtics fan, I can tell you Vucevic is exactly the type of player the Celtics don't want for many reasons. The biggest reason is Vucevic might help the Celtics win games this season (which they don't necessarily want to do because of their draft pick) and the Celtics won't resign him. Celtics have the same problem with Simons. If they are forced to go with one, they will pick the younger Simons and give him a look.

You really think Celts can tank in the awful East with Brown and White?

I don’t. They’d need an injury riddled season like Sixers had.

It's not a matter of tanking, if Vucevic wins 3-4 more games for the Celtics next year, what exactly does that do for the Celtics?

[sco]

Giannis didn't start playing minutes at the 5 consistently until year 6-7, and he had one of the most ridiculous physical transformations in league history. Giannis also still plays most of his minutes at the 4.

Noa is years away from this happening if it ever does, which is highly unlikely. Way too much, he's a future 5 stuff. Just because things can change doesn't mean we should expect things with a low probability to happen. He's a 3/4.

Yes, he is very likely to be 4.. but I dont see him as SF in future, more of a small ball C

Noa has nearly the same measurements as Giannis coming in while being younger and weighing ten more pounds.

He will add weight. Hopefully it’s athletic muscle and dead weight like Pat.

The Giannis comp IMO is like saying "If it walks like a duck and snorts like a pig, it's a duck"

[Infinity2152]

I'm basically looking at if Giddey, Matas, Noa are all starters. Expecting us to either re-sign Coby and add one starter or sign two new starters. We don't know what size or positions those guys will be. If we add a star SG and/or SF, Noa and Matas are playing 4 and 5 basically. The SF could be 6'8, 6'9 too. With the overall length in the lineup, don't think sacrificing a little weight will outweigh the potential advantages. I still haven't heard any real argument against Noa playing center other than weight.

If we add a star PF, Noa could maybe play SF, but he still might be more suited to play 5 than Matas or that star PF. Say it's a Tatum type. Or even Kuminga.

Most of all, I wouldn't say he can't do it before giving him a chance. Caruso wasn't always even close to that good on defense, and he's guarding PF's now. Javonte Green too. There's a lot more to basketball than physical build. Don't know about anyone else, but I'm more hopeful about his defensive upside than offensive, whatever position he's called. It's always just 5 guys on the court, regardless of what we call them.

If he becomes a lockdown defender in the next couple years, think he could play 3, 4, or 5 and be just fine depending on the rest of the roster. Most centers don't post up nowadays anyway. Mostly talking about in blowouts, injuries, etc year 1. Get him some extra on the court minutes. Billy seems to like to run small.

Were you around when there was a group around here who thought Lauri Markkanen should have been played at the center? Thay had all kinds of rationalizations for it, and refused to be told otherwise and to this day probably think the NBAand the teams he's been on are so wrong. I remember those posters who saw 7-1 tall and refused to get it out of their heads that he should be the 5.

We won’t be adding any more 3/4s. It will be a big 5 imo.

I remember Lauri. I was interested in seeing him at the 5 but not bulked up. Purely stretch 5 chucking 3s. He bulked up and slowed down and had a hard time moving and scoring. He’s def not a 5. Can’t protect the rim at all.

You realize the main player we were linked to in FA outside our own Giddey this summer is Kuminga, right? Nobody knows what the Bulls are adding, lol. Everybody saw the 6'5 Okoro addition coming, right? We don't have enough guys around that height? Tre Jones? 3 players here already to play backup PG. Who's sending a playable center in a Vucevic or Collins trade? The other player we're linked to is Anfernee Simons, a 6'3 guard.

People are exaggerating what I said to biblical proportions. The original question was would anyone like to see Noa get some minutes at center this year. Pros and cons list:

Pro: Our forward rotation is crazy, with Okoro and Matas likely to start and get 30+ mins. Pat Will likely gets 12 mins, maybe more. That leaves 24 minutes at forward. Guys who might play forward at any time: Huerter, Ayo, Phillips, Terry, Noa. Expect Huerter and Ayo to get at least 10-15 minutes apiece. Maybe more. Where does Noa's minutes come in at all? I don't think Terry and Phillips get zero minutes this season.

We're trying to move one of our centers. That would leave us with two. Starter and backup. Any injury, Noa could get minutes. Blowouts, Noa could get minutes. There are 8 guys who can play forward in blowouts.

He could be great. Despite all the prognosticators in here, everybody is just guessing. Every player is individual, but people just want to compare them to players of similar build. Most players Caruso's or Javonte Green's size cant play PF. Glad you brought up Lauri. Clearly size isn't everything. Gafford and Lauri are about the same size and weight. Both athletic and long. Gafford's a good center, Lauri is not. Lebron and Draymond are around the same size, Lebron a little bigger. Bron's never playing center, Dray will never play SF.

There's no way it could hurt getting Noa additional minutes his first season, whether it's at PF or center. I'll acknowledge he looks like a natural PF. So what? Jalen Williams and other small guys played center in the Finals. Chet is barely bigger than Noa. But Noa can't play in blowouts?

What are the cons to him getting some center minutes his first year? Name any. Not you specifically, anybody saying he shouldn't get a single minute at backup center to get him NBA minutes. I've been waiting for a logical reason.

[Muzbar]

A lot of focus on Simons....Could he be flipped for Walter Kessler or Derrick Lively3?
Boston gets Vuc.....Utah gets Simons...Chicago gets Kessler....
Boston gets a rental with Vuc, Utah gets a guard, a sign and trade for Kessler and Chicago gets a young rim protector for going forward.

As a Celtics fan, I can tell you Vucevic is exactly the type of player the Celtics don't want for many reasons. The biggest reason is Vucevic might help the Celtics win games this season (which they don't necessarily want to do because of their draft pick) and the Celtics won't resign him. Celtics have the same problem with Simons. If they are forced to go with one, they will pick the younger Simons and give him a look.

You think Vucevic will help you win games? That's funny.

[jordanwilliams6]

A lot of focus on Simons....Could he be flipped for Walter Kessler or Derrick Lively3?
Boston gets Vuc.....Utah gets Simons...Chicago gets Kessler....
Boston gets a rental with Vuc, Utah gets a guard, a sign and trade for Kessler and Chicago gets a young rim protector for going forward.

As a Celtics fan, I can tell you Vucevic is exactly the type of player the Celtics don't want for many reasons. The biggest reason is Vucevic might help the Celtics win games this season (which they don't necessarily want to do because of their draft pick) and the Celtics won't resign him. Celtics have the same problem with Simons. If they are forced to go with one, they will pick the younger Simons and give him a look.

You really think Celts can tank in the awful East with Brown and White?

I don’t. They’d need an injury riddled season like Sixers had.

Absolutely I can.

They’ll probably hover around 0.500 for the first half of the season before shutting down their key guys to end up with a top 8-10 pick. This will be a gap year for Boston.

They know they aren’t contending. Why would they want Vuc (who may not even be a positive player at all) who at best might raise the ceiling to a first round exit.

[T_chandlerfan]

Scenario
Congratulations on a successful trade
Due to Chicago being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Chicago could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.
Due to Utah being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Utah could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.
This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
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Trade ID #8872986
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Chicago Bulls Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Lauri Markkanen
28 year old, 7-0, 240 lb SF from Arizona
No games yet played in 2025-2026
Outgoing Players
Nikola Vucevic
34 year old, 6-10, 260 lb PF from USC
No games yet played in 2025-2026
Patrick Williams
23 year old, 6-7, 215 lb G from Florida State
No games yet played in 2025-2026
Utah Jazz Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Nikola Vucevic
34 year old, 6-10, 260 lb PF from USC
No games yet played in 2025-2026
Patrick Williams
23 year old, 6-7, 215 lb G from Florida State
No games yet played in 2025-2026
Outgoing Players
Lauri Markkanen
28 year old, 7-0, 240 lb SF from Arizona
No games yet played in 2025-2026
C:Lauri Markkanen
PF:Matus Buzelis
SF:Noa Essungue
SG:Josh Giddy
PG:Cody White