Stratmaster wrote:jnrjr79 wrote:Stratmaster wrote:
I gave the pros and cons of the players.  I was responding to a post that portrayed 3 all-stars as trash without citing a single positive.  But mine is the one-sided one.  Sure.  Whatever you say.  And if you think Billy wasn't consulted as to the types of players he wanted, you are being foolish.  Or...maybe that's why they keep extending him.  Because he is a weak mealy-mouthed simp who won't speak out for himself.
Well, it’s disingenuous to call Vooch an All-Star.  He’s never made an All-Star team here.  His contributions to Orlando, which were limited to putting up big numbers on bad teams, aren’t really relevant to his quality as a Bull.
I have no idea how much Billy was “consulted” about acquisitions, but NBA coaches typically have way less say-so on personnel than in, say, football.  I have no particular reason to believe that Billy has had a lot of influence on free agent acquisitions, trades, and the draft.
The thing you didn’t respond to that is pretty telling is that Zach and DeMar now exist on the same team, and have a better third wheel than Vooch in Sabonis, and yet the team still sucks.  These guys may have positive attributes, but a team built around them is not likely to be good.
In any event, I know nobody is ever going to convince you that Billy is good, despite the fact that he consistently drags this bad roster to better-than-expected results.
 
Vuc came to Billy Donovan off all-star credentials.  that isn't relevant to how Billy may have affected the performance of his players?  And Demar and Zach have existed in Sac for less than half a season.  I'll bet you a pizza that Sac has a better record, playing against tougher competition, than the Bulls this season.  
 
No, I don’t think it’s particularly relevant.  Vooch is the same guy.  But when he’s a third wheel, you see him for what he is.  He sucks, the whole board knows he sucks, we have been complaining for years about how much he sucks, and literally nobody else seems to think “Vooch is great and Billy is holding him back.”  This is, to put it mildly, an outlier opinion.
But again.  I keep stating facts.  You and others don't respond to any of them.  You just keep making excuses for Billy.  And then have the ironic gall to think you are somehow "calling me out" because I didn't respond to comments about the Kings.  Is Billy coaching the Kings?  Nope.  Just "whataboutism". And in no way, in overall performance since Billy came here, have the Bulls outperformed expectations.  Are you saying your expectations when Billy got here were that the Bulls would get to 1 playoff series in 5 seasons?  And if I had told you that the day after he was hired, and also told you that he would get 2 extensions for that effort, what would your response have been?
None of this really makes any sense.  It’s not “whataboutism” to note that when the two key pieces of this team ended up on a different team, that team was not good, because it shows you that coaching is not the issue here.  Heck, coaching isn’t the issue most places, because NBA coaches just don’t have a huge impact on wins and losses.  It’s a talent league.
Your question about what my “expectations” were when Billy got here is also absurd.  Nobody has “expectations” for a coach in isolation.  My expectations for how the team will perform is based upon how much talent the team has.  The Bulls have performed better than my expectations based on the roster.  And my view here is the consensus view, so it’s weird to have it framed like you have where it’s somehow crazy.  It’d be one thing if you were saying “I know this isn’t a popular opinion, but I think Billy has been the problem,” but you act like it’s everyone else that holds the odd view.  
As to your question about what I would have said after he was hired, this is again pointless and silly.  I’d have been surprised, but not if you also told me what players he’d have during that time.  Then, I’d have gone “ah, ok, I get it.  Coaching wasn’t the problem.”
I get it.  Billy is a likeable guy. A great college coach. He makes you want to like him.  But he is a poor NBA coach.  He will be fine for the next couple seasons because the Bulls will be more like a college team anyway.  I have already come to terms with that and it is fine.  But don't act like he has shown anything in Chicago that would indicate he is a good head coach in the NBA
He, in fact, has shown that.  I don’t think he’s an elite coach, but he’s perfectly solid and a good fit for where the Bulls are right now.  
If the Bulls fired Billy, the overwhelming likelihood is his replacement would be worse.