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Pax on the score, getting irritated with Mike North

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Post#61 » by theanimal23 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:56 pm

I pretty much feel this way:

http://www.blogabull.com/story/2008/1/14/215745/249

UPDATE: Paxson was interviewed by Mike North (for some reason North gets these assignments) and it's up at WSCR's website.

Not the greatest listen, but some information did come out: Regarding the Noah suspension, Pax made it seem like the 1st suspension was for the altercation with Adams, and the additional game from the players was for an accumulation of other things during the year. He was pretty vague on the details of the 'unanimous' vote, but North did get Pax to explicitly say that the rookies did not vote. Pax also said 'the veterans' made the decision. To me that leaves into question whether guys like Thomas or Sefolosha had a say either.

Regarding trade talks, Pax spent a lot of time whining about bad reporting, but did say that the McGrady reports were completely untrue.


******

Everything's A-Ok:

Bulls general manager John Paxson said today he had no problem with Bulls players voting to make Joakim Noah sit out an extra game as punishment for his run-in with assistant coach Ron Adams.

"Jim and I spoke [Friday] and the one game suspension was warranted," Paxson said. "The fact the players felt they needed to address it is, in my mind, a good thing. As Jim said, it's them taking ownership. I have no problem with that."
I think I would have a problem with this, if I knew what it meant. Wouldn't 'taking ownership' mean more than singling out a rookie who's already been punished? Perhaps not laying a big turd in the game that followed?

Or maybe Pax is hoping the players 'take ownership' so that he doesn't have to.

Paxson cited the fact that his team remains in the playoff race in the Eastern Conference as the reason that Boylan is sticking with a veteran rotation.

"We haven't lived up to any of the expectations we put on ourselves and that is extremely discouraging," Paxson said. "But today is not the day to determine that we just scrap it and do something totally different. Like I said before, there could come a point if things don't turn around and we don't believe we're contending for the playoffs, the experience for our younger players is going to be addressed. But we're not there yet."
Oh, what a pile of garbage.

Only the most dimwitted of fans care about making the playoffs just to make them. Even if the Bulls avoid a no-chance matchup against the Pistons or Celtics in the first round, the fact that this mad dash to the top-8 will be on the old backs of Wallace and Smith is hardly progress.

When Paxson fired Skiles, his subsequent media tour gave the impression that playing the youngsters was a goal. Now Pax is buying into this fallacy that playoffs and playing time for lottery picks is mutually exclusive.

So the only way we see a real change is if this sad bunch bottoms out of the playoff race? Way to make the fans root for losses.

And the final insult: "Paxson stuck to his policy of not answering any questions concerning trades."

Can't even feed the rumor mill because you're afraid it'll hurt your sensitive young team. What's supposed to keep this franchise interesting, watching the awful basketball?
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Post#62 » by kyrv » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:58 pm

I agree with everything there animal, except, Paxson should not be feeding the rumour mill. How does that benefit the Bulls?
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Post#63 » by theanimal23 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:58 pm

Actually I don't care for the Noah deal, it doesn't matter to me. But it's the last half of the Blog-a-Bull blog I totally agree with.
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Post#64 » by Mad Mike » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:58 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Then you need to listen to it again, because thats not what Paxson is saying.

As for Noahs character - it was common knowledge before the draft that he was a bit of a flake. I don't think anything Noah has done has been a huge surprise to anyone, including Pax. Billy Donovan talked about it at length before the draft - and I'm sure Pax spoke with him about it.


what do you want me to listen to again? pax said it himself your not gonna find out everything before the draft and you take a risk....that says right there he didn't find out everything he wanted to about noah and took a risk. you should listen to it again because he said that.
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Post#65 » by theanimal23 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:59 pm

kyrv wrote:I agree with everything there animal, except, Paxson should not be feeding the rumour mill. How does that benefit the Bulls?


I agree. We've seen what it's done with team already. I forgot about that part. I do enjoy hearing rumors, but he shouldn't be letting GM talk out in public.
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Post#66 » by Bulls69 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:03 pm

I just think Mike North is a jack*** but he did made a good point about Big Ben but Pax's is smart enough to wait until this coming offseason to make any deal.
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Post#67 » by kyrv » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:04 pm

The one interesting thing about the Noah thing, and I know it's been overly hashed, but the fact that it was reported as unanimous and it in fact was not. Reporters got that from some place. I also would not be surprised if Tyrus and Thabo either didn't vote or it was one of those open, peer pressure, hands in the air, are you with us or against us, union type votes.

So Wallace gets the who should be playing instead of him, an extra game off, and doesn't let the other guy who should be playing ahead of him (Gray), have a say.

Let me state here too, Noah said, he didn't know players could suspend someone. I didn't know that either. Hey I don't know what happened, but I find it hard to take on faith that Ben Wallace "did the right thing".
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Post#68 » by TB#1 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:06 pm

Now Pax is buying into this fallacy that playoffs and playing time for lottery picks is mutually exclusive.


Can someone explain this line to me, because I don't get it.
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Post#69 » by kyrv » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:10 pm

TB#1 wrote:
Now Pax is buying into this fallacy that playoffs and playing time for lottery picks is mutually exclusive.


Can someone explain this line to me, because I don't get it.


I believe they mean, people pretend that playing the lottery picks equates to 'giving up' and not being any good. Bill Wennington is one person who believes that.
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Post#70 » by Magilla_Gorilla » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:18 pm

Mad Mike wrote:pax said it himself your not gonna find out everything before the draft and you take a risk....


Yeah - thats obvious - you do that with every player you draft. Just like when he drafted Deng, Gordon, Gray, Hinrich, Thabo, Curry, etc...


that says right there he didn't find out everything he wanted to about noah and took a risk.


No, that says right there that you always take a risk everytime you draft, and there are always going to be things you can't find out about a draft prospect. He's talking generalities - not specifically about Noah.

man mike made paxson admit in a way that jokim noah was a bad pick...


So why don't you care to explain this statement - the statement I initially questioned you about before you shifted the argument. Pax nevers says that, he never even alludes to it.
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Post#71 » by Red Larrivee » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:21 pm

It depends on who those lottery picks are, and what the situation is.

If we had a superstar like Lebron James, or Dwayne Wade, you could definitely play the guys, because they'll get better looks, and easier compliments. Daniel Gibson on Cleveland is a recent example of it. Gibson was a solid player in college, and should have been on the radar more, but I don't think he would have been great just by himself in the NBA. With the attention Lebron got, he was getting open looks to do what he does best, Hit 3-Pointers. And now look, he's one of the Top Five 3-Point Shooters in the League.

If we decide to say "Tyrus/Noah/Gray get 30 a piece" then yea we're throwing it away. It's impossible to give such raw players that time, and still expect to do something good, especially in a flawed system like this, and no superstar level talent to enhance the developing process. So in our situation it would mean season over, and eyes on the lottery.
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Post#72 » by AKfanatic » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:25 pm

Pax is going out there himself saying noah is not polished he needs alot of learning when in the past he got rid of players like that in curry, crawford and chandler



And how many years did Curry, Crawford, and Chandler have to "get it"? Saying that Paxson saying a guy is "unpolished" is equal to him saying he messed up in picking the guy is quite a stretch.
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Post#73 » by theanimal23 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:27 pm

TB#1 wrote:
Now Pax is buying into this fallacy that playoffs and playing time for lottery picks is mutually exclusive.


Can someone explain this line to me, because I don't get it.


If we play the vets we make the playoffs. If we play the youngsters we will miss it. Basically the youngsters cannot help lead this team to the playoffs since they are young/raw/whatever.
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Post#74 » by kyrv » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:29 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:It depends on who those lottery picks are, and what the situation is.

If we had a superstar like Lebron James, or Dwayne Wade, you could definitely play the guys, because they'll get better looks, and easier compliments. Daniel Gibson on Cleveland is a recent example of it. Gibson was a solid player in college, and should have been on the radar more, but I don't think he would have been great just by himself in the NBA. With the attention Lebron got, he was getting open looks to do what he does best, Hit 3-Pointers. And now look, he's one of the Top Five 3-Point Shooters in the League.

If we decide to say "Tyrus/Noah/Gray get 30 a piece" then yea we're throwing it away. It's impossible to give such raw players that time, and still expect to do something good, especially in a flawed system like this, and no superstar level talent to enhance the developing process. So in our situation it would mean season over, and eyes on the lottery.


I think the season is just as over with the vets. They have the same problems with the system and no superstar as the reserves.

Also, your sig is an ancient quote, Ben Gordon is not one of the highest scoring fourth quarter players. Probably not even close.
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Post#75 » by Magilla_Gorilla » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:29 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:If we decide to say "Tyrus/Noah/Gray get 30 a piece" then yea we're throwing it away. It's impossible to give such raw players that time, and still expect to do something good, especially in a flawed system like this, and no superstar level talent to enhance the developing process. So in our situation it would mean season over, and eyes on the lottery.


Because trotting Ben Wallace out there 35mpg is helping us win?

Noah is clearly outplaying Wallace, and I'd rather see Gray get minutes than watch Wallace pass up another open layup.
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Post#76 » by richard » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:31 pm

neither the vets nor the youngsters are going to help this team win a lot of games. gray was a 2nd round pick for a reason. he is not very good. noah and thomas will only show flashes from time to time, they will not be consistent producers this season.
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Post#77 » by TB#1 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:36 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Noah is clearly outplaying Wallace, and I'd rather see Gray get minutes than watch Wallace pass up another open layup.


For the record, I will NEVER criticize Wallace for passing up an open layup, since (for him) it is a low percentage shot.

Most times, my criticism will be directed toward the person who passed him the ball.
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Post#78 » by AKfanatic » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:36 pm

richard wrote:neither the vets nor the youngsters are going to help this team win a lot of games. gray was a 2nd round pick for a reason. he is not very good. noah and thomas will only show flashes from time to time, they will not be consistent producers this season.



In other words playing Noah/Thomas (whom will be inconsistent) will be no different than playing the inconsistant Ben Wallace. With one major exception. Both NOah and Thomas have upsided to look forward to as opposed to Wallace who has nothing but downside in his future. Chicago needs to play the young guys regardless of results now.
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Post#79 » by Magilla_Gorilla » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:39 pm

richard wrote:neither the vets nor the youngsters are going to help this team win a lot of games. gray was a 2nd round pick for a reason. he is not very good. noah and thomas will only show flashes from time to time, they will not be consistent producers this season.



Gilbert Arenas was a second round pick for a reason...

Paul Millsap was a second round pick for a reason...

Monta Ellis was a second round pick for a reason...

Luke Walton was a second round pick for a reason...

Michael Redd was a second round pick for a reason...



Carlos Boozer was a second round pick for a reason...


Sorry, but where someone was drafted can mean nothing more than a flawed scouting system. How about we give Gray a chance to show us he sucks - rather than write him off based on his draft position?
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Post#80 » by Magilla_Gorilla » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:41 pm

TB#1 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



For the record, I will NEVER criticize Wallace for passing up an open layup, since (for him) it is a low percentage shot.

Most times, my criticism will be directed toward the person who passed him the ball.



LOL... You're right. There should be a "no passing to Big Ben" rule implemented immediately.

Violators will be suspended...
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