Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

Red Larrivee · Post #601 » by **Red Larrivee** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:12 pm

DuckIII wrote:And why on earth would anyone make that assumption?

Lamb has the potential and skill already to be pretty good. I'm not sure about #2 good, but better-than-Deng good? Yes.

But that's not my issue with the deal.

Shill · Post #602 » by **Shill** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:12 pm

DaChozen1 wrote:
Shill4Tyrus24 wrote:
jumpmanjay wrote:to give up our 2013 pick, garpax have to believe that:

1) we will still be a playoff team next year
2) next years draft will be weak (which all signs point to as "yes")

The pick is supposedly protected (my guess would be lottery).

I don't think he was talking about the Bobcats pick..Just our 2013 pick

So was I.

Ralphb07 · Post #603 » by **Ralphb07** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:12 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:This deal doesn't offer that much "cap flexibility" guys. The Bulls will still be in the tax with the team if Asik gets an offer of the MLE. You're only under the cap by about 5-6 million when Harris and Wright expire too.

It'll help shed $$$ long-term, but you still pay the tax this year and don't have the MLE to use.

You've wanted to take Deng and cash him in on a young guy. That's exactly what they are doing.

Also this was just one scenario. Maybe the deal ends up being Harris, #7, #35, #52 for Deng and 29....

Post #604 » by **DuckIII** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:12 pm

dice wrote:
PMONSTER wrote:We get a stop gap pg in Devin Harris and a legit sf in Wright while getting the #7 pick and people aren't happy?

the other thing about it is that we get 3 rotation players for 1. we'd be replacing the depth we're bound to be losing with the bench mob and, for those gung-ho about it, getting more balance O vs D. i gotta think it gives us a better shot at contending THIS COMING YEAR

Oh brother. Its basically trading Deng for Harris and Wright, as far as next year is concerned. And that makes us more of a contender?

Hogwash. This deal, if done, confirms that next year is a nothing year. Just a year of Rose's career to flush. Then hope that actual quality is added the following year, and that the lottery pick is a rapid-developing prodigy or, oops, you've burned two of Rose's precious years.

dice · Post #605 » by **dice** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:13 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:This deal doesn't offer that much "cap flexibility" guys. The Bulls will still be in the tax with the team if Asik gets an offer of the MLE. You're only under the cap by about 5-6 million when Harris and Wright expire too.

It'll help shed $$$ long-term, but you still pay the tax this year and don't have the MLE to use.

nobody's arguing that it helps avoid the tax this year. the benefit is the following year financially. and it probably helps us personnel-wise THIS year

singal3 · Post #606 » by **singal3** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:13 pm

Deng has 2 years left on his contract, assuming he gets the surgery he will miss 1/8 of that contract. Taking that into account, this is as high as you are going to be able to sell him for.

I would package that pick with the Cats pick if it would net you Beal. Rose needs another superstar. Deng/Boozer/Noah are great but he clearly needs a 1a.

dice · Post #607 » by **dice** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:14 pm

DuckIII wrote:
dice wrote:
PMONSTER wrote:We get a stop gap pg in Devin Harris and a legit sf in Wright while getting the #7 pick and people aren't happy?

the other thing about it is that we get 3 rotation players for 1. we'd be replacing the depth we're bound to be losing with the bench mob and, for those gung-ho about it, getting more balance O vs D. i gotta think it gives us a better shot at contending THIS COMING YEAR

Oh brother. Its basically trading Deng for Harris and Wright, as far as next year is concerned. And that makes us more of a contender?

Hogwash.

you make a blanket assumption that #7 will contribute absolutely nothing his rookie year? THAT's hogwash

and in case you hadn't noticed, we have no starting-caliber point guard right now

barn34 · Post #608 » by **barn34** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:14 pm

i think it looks like this is the preferred list of guys they are targetting at the top of the draft:

barnes/beal - but they need to get into the top 4 to get one of them. that's easier said than done.
jeremy lamb - getting into the top 8 seems like the cieling to be able to grab him. hence dealing GS.
terrence ross - again, probably top 8 seems to be the cieling. I don't see as high an interest in him as lamb and probably won't do the deal if lamb is off the board, but who knows.
austin rivers - probably have to get into the top 10 to get him. i'm not sold on him if you have to give up deng to get him. i think he'll be a decent player in the league, but more oj mayo-esque...and that's definitely not worth giving up deng for. lamb could be a legit stud on both ends of the floor. ross could be a less athletic iguodala but with a much better jump shot. i'd sign off on either of those guys easily. i can't talk myself into rivers if he's the crown jewel of a deng trade. i just can't.

my order of preference...i think i'd have to list them as beal (have to trade into top 3), lamb (have to trade into top 8), barnes (have to trade into the top 2 potentially), ross (again, top 8), rivers (top 10). if you're only focused on those 5 options. the top 7/8 range seems to be the most doable and that will net lamb or ross. both are good gets. getting back dorrell wrigt (who i really like) and devin harris (who could be a great fit here both for the short term while rose is out and long term backing up rose, if resigned) are great. i would definitely sign off on the 3 team trade with GS and utah if our 2013 pick is lotto protected (top 14) - or just not included at all. dropping down from 29 - 35 is a wash and is actually a plus since they salary isn't guaranteed anymore. especially since you're looking at daron lamb or john jenkins there...and we'll have a much better prospect already on board with whoever we get at 7.

Madison · Post #609 » by **Madison** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:14 pm

Ric Bucher on ESPN 1000 right now. Can anyone provide updates to those of us that can't listen?

Shill · Post #610 » by **Shill** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:16 pm

Could Barnes have been a smokescreen, or do the Bulls simply like 3 or 4 of the wing players projected to go top 8?

thedarkstark · Post #611 » by **thedarkstark** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:16 pm

Madison wrote:Ric Bucher on ESPN 1000 right now. Can anyone provide updates to those of us that can't listen?

I will try.

The Force. · Post #612 » by **The Force.** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:16 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:A couple things here....

Are people not breaking the deal down? Is there too many pieces involved for people to process this? The reason I ask is I've seen the same people who've said do Calderon and 8th or Garcia and 5th for Deng but now saying this deal is horrible. When you break this deal down it's Harris and 7th for Deng.

The other part to the deal is Wright, 35 and 52 for a protected 1st next year and our 29. Is Wright not good enough to you guys? You have to give to get. You can break this down other ways too like Harris, #7 and 35 for Deng and Wright and 52 for 29 and future 1st.

Also for all the let's take the Kings deal, FYI Taj Gibson and maybe even the Bobcats pick needs to go in the deal and that's taking Salmons from the Kings stance. How does that deal look now?

You have to give to get and people. From all the stuff I've heard this is actually not a bad deal at all.

+1
People are SEVERELY overrating Deng in this thread. Doing this deal while keeping our interior fully intact and the Bobcats pick is not too shabby at all.

jumpmanjay · Post #613 » by **jumpmanjay** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:16 pm

blumeany wrote:Is it me, or is Rivers just a 'name' and a bunch of hype? Seems to me like his whole resume is 'I'm Doc River's son' and a few exciting YouTube clips here or there.

it sure seems that way sometimes.

...but in the back of my head, i wonder if he has the drive...that drive that will make him something special. remember, kobe was taken with the 13th pick. if rivers has that same kobe-type drive, he could end up being something special. kobe was hot garbage at the beginning.

Shill · Post #614 » by **Shill** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:17 pm

Madison wrote:Ric Bucher on ESPN 1000 right now. Can anyone provide updates to those of us that can't listen?

I gotcha.

Red Larrivee · Post #615 » by **Red Larrivee** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:17 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:You've wanted to take Deng and cash him in on a young guy. That's exactly what they are doing.

Except in not the most ideal trade proposal of that objective.

Also this was just one scenario. Maybe the deal ends up being Harris, #7, #35, #52 for Deng and 29....

Maybe, but right now they're suggesting two first rounders with Deng to get back Harris, Wright, #7 and some seconds. It's not exactly a knockout deal.

dice · Post #616 » by **dice** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:18 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:right now they're suggesting two first rounders with Deng to get back Harris, Wright, #7 and some seconds. It's not exactly a knockout deal.

is there a knockout deal on the table?

Red Larrivee · Post #617 » by **Red Larrivee** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:19 pm

dice wrote:nobody's arguing that it helps avoid the tax this year. the benefit is the following year financially. and it probably helps us personnel-wise THIS year

But avoiding the tax this year is what they're trying to do. That's icing on the cake considering we're sending out two firsts with Deng to get back a not-so-ideal package.

dice wrote:is there a knockout deal on the table?

The Kings deals we were discussing were much more respectable.

PMONSTER · Post #618 » by **PMONSTER** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:20 pm

Guys I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but what can we really get for Deng?

I just believe how we value Deng collectively is different than what people value him.

In other words.... Coaches love Deng while GMs like Deng. I feel like we as a fanbase are the coach while other fans are the GMs. I'm trying to explain this right so some won't think I'm dismissing Deng.

Coaches love Deng because he allows stars to be stars and he does everything that the coach ask for
While............
GMs like Deng but don't love him because he's going to cost a lot but won't be a gamebreaking type player

jumpmanjay · Post #619 » by **jumpmanjay** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:20 pm

dice wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:right now they're suggesting two first rounders with Deng to get back Harris, Wright, #7 and some seconds. It's not exactly a knockout deal.

is there a knockout deal on the table?

deng for KD.

its our table, but hey, its on someones table.

gocubs2118 · Post #620 » by **gocubs2118** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:20 pm

DuckIII wrote:
dice wrote:
PMONSTER wrote:We get a stop gap pg in Devin Harris and a legit sf in Wright while getting the #7 pick and people aren't happy?

the other thing about it is that we get 3 rotation players for 1. we'd be replacing the depth we're bound to be losing with the bench mob and, for those gung-ho about it, getting more balance O vs D. i gotta think it gives us a better shot at contending THIS COMING YEAR

Oh brother. Its basically trading Deng for Harris and Wright, as far as next year is concerned. And that makes us more of a contender?

Hogwash. This deal, if done, confirms that next year is a nothing year. Just a year of Rose's career to flush. Then hope that actual quality is added the following year, and that the lottery pick is a rapid-developing prodigy or, oops, you've burned two of Rose's precious years.

Next year was flushed the minute Rose tore his ACL.