GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2

[ZOMG]

He has certainly picked up his defense the last like 4 games. He had alot of deflections tonight. To me he should be a guy that can jump the passing lanes for steals. And on offense, you can just see that he is "built different" as the kids say.

CAN'T WAIT!

Deflections are nice and all, but Patrick needs to stay between his guy and the basket. His on-ball defense is not good. He gets burned waaayy too much in straight 1-on-1 situations and has also developed a bad ball watching habit.

Overall, Pat has improved as the season has progressed, but he's still far from being a good NBA player. He blends into the scenery so people get excited when he has a dunk off a cut where the defense has completely ignored him, but playing 30mpg for a team that's desperately trying to win?

Doesn't make much sense.

[coldfish]

He has certainly picked up his defense the last like 4 games. He had alot of deflections tonight. To me he should be a guy that can jump the passing lanes for steals. And on offense, you can just see that he is "built different" as the kids say.

CAN'T WAIT!

Pat has done a great job recently on pick and roll. He is denying the pick as well as anyone on the team and has completely shutdown multiple pick and roll plays. His defense has really picked up.

On offense, he is getting dragged down by the changes. The team still isn’t comfortable with each other and what they should do. I caught several plays where two off ball players cut into the same space, nullifying both of them. Other times, no one would cut. This will get sorted out.

[DuckIII]

He has certainly picked up his defense the last like 4 games. He had alot of deflections tonight. To me he should be a guy that can jump the passing lanes for steals. And on offense, you can just see that he is "built different" as the kids say.

CAN'T WAIT!

Pat has done a great job recently on pick and roll. He is denying the pick as well as anyone on the team and has completely shutdown multiple pick and roll plays. His defense has really picked up.

On offense, he is getting dragged down by the changes. The team still isn’t comfortable with each other and what they should do. I caught several plays where two off ball players cut into the same space, nullifying both of them. Other times, no one would cut. This will get sorted out.

Plus it’s his own mentality. He has a long way to go reading off ball cut opportunities. Or maybe he reads them, but he’s 19 playing with a bunch of veterans and is reluctant. Plus even when he gets the ball he can be more aggressive than he is. His offensive mindset is a work in progress and probably will be for a couple more years. But the toolbox is completely full.

Defensively he’s finally engaged again. Using his physical superiority and he’s mentally more focused on what’s happening (though still drifts out of it between the ears at times).

Future. Star.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Deflections are nice and all, but Patrick needs to stay between his guy and the basket. His on-ball defense is not good. He gets burned waaayy too much in straight 1-on-1 situations and has also developed a bad ball watching habit.

Overall, Pat has improved as the season has progressed, but he's still far from being a good NBA player. He blends into the scenery so people get excited when he has a dunk off a cut where the defense has completely ignored him, but playing 30mpg for a team that's desperately trying to win?

Doesn't make much sense.

It makes a ton of sense.

What is the issue with him? Him starting or the minutes? His actions are'nt hurting us as a team. Because I will tell you, Billy Donovan completely disagrees with you.

He is playing exactly the role Billy has set for him. All he has to do is play solid defense and efficient offense. Something he has done all season.

Just about every playoff team starts a guy that plays that role All various levels but of the same role.

Why does Royce Oneale start for the Jazz? Why does Danny Green start over Shake Milton? Why would the ghost of Trveor Ariza be starting for the Heat? I can go on and on.

Now you can say he could do this or that better. Sure. We are all riding the proverbial rookie wave. But show me an option that is consistently or clearly better than the option of Pat. I cant think of anyone on the roster.

Temple, who plays the same role as Pat, people say can be more heady and steady - as a veteran. But he is also 35 years old and Billy wants to limit him. On top of that Temple is alot smaller than Pat so over the long term, its probably a net negative.

Valentine is probably the best aggressive scorer but gives you nothing on the defensive end and lets face it, hes Valentine.

TBJ, an intriguing player who brings good solid defense like Temple but has never been considered a shooter or efficient offense for his career as of yet.

So the only option people can argue is Temple. But I have already given the reason to why he wont start.

But Pat has done really well since the trade and seems to be getting really comfortable with the new guys.

[DuckIII]

Deflections are nice and all, but Patrick needs to stay between his guy and the basket. His on-ball defense is not good. He gets burned waaayy too much in straight 1-on-1 situations and has also developed a bad ball watching habit.

Overall, Pat has improved as the season has progressed, but he's still far from being a good NBA player. He blends into the scenery so people get excited when he has a dunk off a cut where the defense has completely ignored him, but playing 30mpg for a team that's desperately trying to win?

Doesn't make much sense.

It makes a ton of sense.

What is the issue with him? Him starting or the minutes? His actions are'nt hurting us as a team. Because I will tell you, Billy Donovan completely disagrees with you.

He is playing exactly the role Billy has set for him. All he has to do is play solid defense and efficient offense. Something he has done all season.

Just about every playoff team starts a guy that plays that role All various levels but of the same role.

Why does Royce Oneale start for the Jazz? Why does Danny Green start over Shake Milton? Why would the ghost of Trveor Ariza be starting for the Heat? I can go on and on.

Now you can say he could do this or that better. Sure. We are all riding the proverbial rookie wave. But show me an option that is consistently or clearly better than the option of Pat. I cant think of anyone on the roster.

Temple, who plays the same role as Pat, people say can be more heady and steady - as a veteran. But he is also 35 years old and Billy wants to limit him. On top of that Temple is alot smaller than Pat so over the long term, its probably a net negative.

Valentine is probably the best aggressive scorer but gives you nothing on the defensive end and lets face it, hes Valentine.

TBJ, an intriguing player who brings good solid defense like Temple but has never been considered a shooter or efficient offense for his career as of yet.

So the only option people can argue is Temple. But I have already given the reason to why he wont start.

But Pat has done really well since the trade and seems to be getting really comfortable with the new guys.

All of that is true with one exception. Patrick Lee Williams had a pretty long stretch there where you couldn’t point to his defense as a justification for starting him. His D downright fell off a cliff for quite awhile. It’s looks like it’s back, which is great.

There’s another reason too. Possibly the main reason. He’s a potential stud to a special degree and the franchise realizes it. There are a handful of teams every year that are fully committed 100% to making all playing time decisions (in competitive games) based on winning that game. And following Win Now Thursday the Bulls are close to being one of those teams, and that’s apparent based on the new rotations and minute distributions. But they are not all the way there. There is still a part operating on two levels at once, balancing short term goals with longer term outlooks. Thats the Patrick Lee Williams part.

They traded WCJ and have back-shelved Lauri and Coby. That’s because they think it helps winning and because they don’t consider those guys future potential to be worth making an exception in the short term. But Patrick Lee Williams is being treated differently. And a big reason for that is because the franchise knows he’s their best hope at having a third star.

[sco]

Deflections are nice and all, but Patrick needs to stay between his guy and the basket. His on-ball defense is not good. He gets burned waaayy too much in straight 1-on-1 situations and has also developed a bad ball watching habit.

Overall, Pat has improved as the season has progressed, but he's still far from being a good NBA player. He blends into the scenery so people get excited when he has a dunk off a cut where the defense has completely ignored him, but playing 30mpg for a team that's desperately trying to win?

Doesn't make much sense.

It makes a ton of sense.

What is the issue with him? Him starting or the minutes? His actions are'nt hurting us as a team. Because I will tell you, Billy Donovan completely disagrees with you.

He is playing exactly the role Billy has set for him. All he has to do is play solid defense and efficient offense. Something he has done all season.

Just about every playoff team starts a guy that plays that role All various levels but of the same role.

Why does Royce Oneale start for the Jazz? Why does Danny Green start over Shake Milton? Why would the ghost of Trveor Ariza be starting for the Heat? I can go on and on.

Now you can say he could do this or that better. Sure. We are all riding the proverbial rookie wave. But show me an option that is consistently or clearly better than the option of Pat. I cant think of anyone on the roster.

Temple, who plays the same role as Pat, people say can be more heady and steady - as a veteran. But he is also 35 years old and Billy wants to limit him. On top of that Temple is alot smaller than Pat so over the long term, its probably a net negative.

Valentine is probably the best aggressive scorer but gives you nothing on the defensive end and lets face it, hes Valentine.

TBJ, an intriguing player who brings good solid defense like Temple but has never been considered a shooter or efficient offense for his career as of yet.

So the only option people can argue is Temple. But I have already given the reason to why he wont start.

But Pat has done really well since the trade and seems to be getting really comfortable with the new guys.

Waiting for the "Lauri is a much better defender and should be starting over PWill" rebuttal.

[chefo]

Deflections are nice and all, but Patrick needs to stay between his guy and the basket. His on-ball defense is not good. He gets burned waaayy too much in straight 1-on-1 situations and has also developed a bad ball watching habit.

Overall, Pat has improved as the season has progressed, but he's still far from being a good NBA player. He blends into the scenery so people get excited when he has a dunk off a cut where the defense has completely ignored him, but playing 30mpg for a team that's desperately trying to win?

Doesn't make much sense.

It makes a ton of sense.

What is the issue with him? Him starting or the minutes? His actions are'nt hurting us as a team. Because I will tell you, Billy Donovan completely disagrees with you.

He is playing exactly the role Billy has set for him. All he has to do is play solid defense and efficient offense. Something he has done all season.

Just about every playoff team starts a guy that plays that role All various levels but of the same role.

Why does Royce Oneale start for the Jazz? Why does Danny Green start over Shake Milton? Why would the ghost of Trveor Ariza be starting for the Heat? I can go on and on.

Now you can say he could do this or that better. Sure. We are all riding the proverbial rookie wave. But show me an option that is consistently or clearly better than the option of Pat. I cant think of anyone on the roster.

Temple, who plays the same role as Pat, people say can be more heady and steady - as a veteran. But he is also 35 years old and Billy wants to limit him. On top of that Temple is alot smaller than Pat so over the long term, its probably a net negative.

Valentine is probably the best aggressive scorer but gives you nothing on the defensive end and lets face it, hes Valentine.

TBJ, an intriguing player who brings good solid defense like Temple but has never been considered a shooter or efficient offense for his career as of yet.

So the only option people can argue is Temple. But I have already given the reason to why he wont start.

But Pat has done really well since the trade and seems to be getting really comfortable with the new guys.

Waiting for the "Lauri is a much better defender and should be starting over PWill" rebuttal.

I'm not sure why there needs to be a rebuttal. PaW is the last guy left getting major entitlement minutes. He hasn't deserved them with his play so far this year, not anywhere close to what he's getting. That thing about him being a good defender is a myth-he may become one some day in the indefinite future, but as of right now, he's a rook who isn't ready to play high level ball for 30+ minutes.

For somebody as big and athletic as him, he gets hung on screens every bit as much as Coby and Zach, and players go at him almost as much as they go at Coby 1-on-1 and he's been unable to stop them most of the time.

I've seen some improvement the last couple of games, but in terms of on-ball D, he's been bad to really bad for 95% of the season.

His problem on O is not his contribution per say when he gets the ball. His problem is that he is passive (which is easy to understand why), and a reluctant long ball shooter, despite good percentages. As a consequence, he's been getting the Dunn/Ronnie/Bogans/WCJ treatment--in essence his defenders tend to cheat off him because the opposing teams don't think he can hurt them meaningfully, even if left unchecked. They do the same with Temple, but after he makes a couple of 3s, they start sticking to him more.

So, as a subpar defender, and a Ronnie-like cutter on O, he's not starter level material on a playoff-push team. Not this year anyways. Yeah, I can see why they are excited about him, but on a true contender that didn't draft him 4th, he wouldn't sniff the court for more than 10 min / game, most of it in garbage time.

I understand that AKME is now almost done dumping Pax's latest draft picks, and having a quality team is heavily dependent on Pat developing into something much better than what he is now, but as of this year, he's getting playing time that's gifted, not earned.

[DorO]

PAW will be great asset for many years, just unbelievable player. two way asset Bulls been lacking for so long

[coldfish]

It makes a ton of sense.

What is the issue with him? Him starting or the minutes? His actions are'nt hurting us as a team. Because I will tell you, Billy Donovan completely disagrees with you.

He is playing exactly the role Billy has set for him. All he has to do is play solid defense and efficient offense. Something he has done all season.

Just about every playoff team starts a guy that plays that role All various levels but of the same role.

Why does Royce Oneale start for the Jazz? Why does Danny Green start over Shake Milton? Why would the ghost of Trveor Ariza be starting for the Heat? I can go on and on.

Now you can say he could do this or that better. Sure. We are all riding the proverbial rookie wave. But show me an option that is consistently or clearly better than the option of Pat. I cant think of anyone on the roster.

Temple, who plays the same role as Pat, people say can be more heady and steady - as a veteran. But he is also 35 years old and Billy wants to limit him. On top of that Temple is alot smaller than Pat so over the long term, its probably a net negative.

Valentine is probably the best aggressive scorer but gives you nothing on the defensive end and lets face it, hes Valentine.

TBJ, an intriguing player who brings good solid defense like Temple but has never been considered a shooter or efficient offense for his career as of yet.

So the only option people can argue is Temple. But I have already given the reason to why he wont start.

But Pat has done really well since the trade and seems to be getting really comfortable with the new guys.

Waiting for the "Lauri is a much better defender and should be starting over PWill" rebuttal.

I'm not sure why there needs to be a rebuttal. PaW is the last guy left getting major entitlement minutes. He hasn't deserved them with his play so far this year, not anywhere close to what he's getting. That thing about him being a good defender is a myth-he may become one some day in the indefinite future, but as of right now, he's a rook who isn't ready to play high level ball for 30+ minutes.

For somebody as big and athletic as him, he gets hung on screens every bit as much as Coby and Zach, and players go at him almost as much as they go at Coby 1-on-1 and he's been unable to stop them most of the time.

I've seen some improvement the last couple of games, but in terms of on-ball D, he's been bad to really bad for 95% of the season.

His problem on O is not his contribution per say when he gets the ball. His problem is that he is passive (which is easy to understand why), and a reluctant long ball shooter, despite good percentages. As a consequence, he's been getting the Dunn/Ronnie/Bogans/WCJ treatment--in essence his defenders tend to cheat off him because the opposing teams don't think he can hurt them meaningfully, even if left unchecked. They do the same with Temple, but after he makes a couple of 3s, they start sticking to him more.

So, as a subpar defender, and a Ronnie-like cutter on O, he's not starter level material on a playoff-push team. Not this year anyways. Yeah, I can see why they are excited about him, but on a true contender that didn't draft him 4th, he wouldn't sniff the court for more than 10 min / game, most of it in garbage time.

I understand that AKME is now almost done dumping Pax's latest draft picks, and having a quality team is heavily dependent on Pat developing into something much better than what he is now, but as of this year, he's getting playing time that's gifted, not earned.

Pat’s asset on D has always been his off ball defense. He jumps into passing lanes, swipes down on people driving and is more than willing to help the helper. There was about a month where he stopped doing a lot of that but he is definitely back right now.

Overall he is definitely getting entitlement minutes and isn’t helping the team a ton but there are a lot of encouraging signs.

[DuckIII]

It makes a ton of sense.

What is the issue with him? Him starting or the minutes? His actions are'nt hurting us as a team. Because I will tell you, Billy Donovan completely disagrees with you.

He is playing exactly the role Billy has set for him. All he has to do is play solid defense and efficient offense. Something he has done all season.

Just about every playoff team starts a guy that plays that role All various levels but of the same role.

Why does Royce Oneale start for the Jazz? Why does Danny Green start over Shake Milton? Why would the ghost of Trveor Ariza be starting for the Heat? I can go on and on.

Now you can say he could do this or that better. Sure. We are all riding the proverbial rookie wave. But show me an option that is consistently or clearly better than the option of Pat. I cant think of anyone on the roster.

Temple, who plays the same role as Pat, people say can be more heady and steady - as a veteran. But he is also 35 years old and Billy wants to limit him. On top of that Temple is alot smaller than Pat so over the long term, its probably a net negative.

Valentine is probably the best aggressive scorer but gives you nothing on the defensive end and lets face it, hes Valentine.

TBJ, an intriguing player who brings good solid defense like Temple but has never been considered a shooter or efficient offense for his career as of yet.

So the only option people can argue is Temple. But I have already given the reason to why he wont start.

But Pat has done really well since the trade and seems to be getting really comfortable with the new guys.

Waiting for the "Lauri is a much better defender and should be starting over PWill" rebuttal.

I'm not sure why there needs to be a rebuttal. PaW is the last guy left getting major entitlement minutes. He hasn't deserved them with his play so far this year, not anywhere close to what he's getting. That thing about him being a good defender is a myth-he may become one some day in the indefinite future, but as of right now, he's a rook who isn't ready to play high level ball for 30+ minutes.

For somebody as big and athletic as him, he gets hung on screens every bit as much as Coby and Zach, and players go at him almost as much as they go at Coby 1-on-1 and he's been unable to stop them most of the time.

I've seen some improvement the last couple of games, but in terms of on-ball D, he's been bad to really bad for 95% of the season.

His problem on O is not his contribution per say when he gets the ball. His problem is that he is passive (which is easy to understand why), and a reluctant long ball shooter, despite good percentages. As a consequence, he's been getting the Dunn/Ronnie/Bogans/WCJ treatment--in essence his defenders tend to cheat off him because the opposing teams don't think he can hurt them meaningfully, even if left unchecked. They do the same with Temple, but after he makes a couple of 3s, they start sticking to him more.

So, as a subpar defender, and a Ronnie-like cutter on O, he's not starter level material on a playoff-push team. Not this year anyways. Yeah, I can see why they are excited about him, but on a true contender that didn't draft him 4th, he wouldn't sniff the court for more than 10 min / game, most of it in garbage time.

I understand that AKME is now almost done dumping Pax's latest draft picks, and having a quality team is heavily dependent on Pat developing into something much better than what he is now, but as of this year, he's getting playing time that's gifted, not earned.

1. His 30+ minutes per game are in part the result of entitlement. Or rather development. Entitlement is when you give veterans minutes just because they are vets (an old Thibs trait). Regardless, “unearned” is a fair term in either scenario even though the reasons are completely different. Patrick Lee Williams get his because the franchise thinks he’s special and they have determined this is the best way to develop him.

2. Who would you start over him and why? And would you take into consideration a balance of short and long term thinking or just one or the other?

[ZOMG]

Deflections are nice and all, but Patrick needs to stay between his guy and the basket. His on-ball defense is not good. He gets burned waaayy too much in straight 1-on-1 situations and has also developed a bad ball watching habit.

Overall, Pat has improved as the season has progressed, but he's still far from being a good NBA player. He blends into the scenery so people get excited when he has a dunk off a cut where the defense has completely ignored him, but playing 30mpg for a team that's desperately trying to win?

Doesn't make much sense.

It makes a ton of sense.

What is the issue with him? Him starting or the minutes? His actions are'nt hurting us as a team. Because I will tell you, Billy Donovan completely disagrees with you.

He is playing exactly the role Billy has set for him. All he has to do is play solid defense and efficient offense. Something he has done all season.

Just about every playoff team starts a guy that plays that role All various levels but of the same role.

Why does Royce Oneale start for the Jazz? Why does Danny Green start over Shake Milton? Why would the ghost of Trveor Ariza be starting for the Heat? I can go on and on.

Now you can say he could do this or that better. Sure. We are all riding the proverbial rookie wave. But show me an option that is consistently or clearly better than the option of Pat. I cant think of anyone on the roster.

Temple, who plays the same role as Pat, people say can be more heady and steady - as a veteran. But he is also 35 years old and Billy wants to limit him. On top of that Temple is alot smaller than Pat so over the long term, its probably a net negative.

Valentine is probably the best aggressive scorer but gives you nothing on the defensive end and lets face it, hes Valentine.

TBJ, an intriguing player who brings good solid defense like Temple but has never been considered a shooter or efficient offense for his career as of yet.

So the only option people can argue is Temple. But I have already given the reason to why he wont start.

But Pat has done really well since the trade and seems to be getting really comfortable with the new guys.

Waiting for the "Lauri is a much better defender and should be starting over PWill" rebuttal.

My man, Lauri lives rent free in your head.

Just stop it.

[chefo]

Waiting for the "Lauri is a much better defender and should be starting over PWill" rebuttal.

I'm not sure why there needs to be a rebuttal. PaW is the last guy left getting major entitlement minutes. He hasn't deserved them with his play so far this year, not anywhere close to what he's getting. That thing about him being a good defender is a myth-he may become one some day in the indefinite future, but as of right now, he's a rook who isn't ready to play high level ball for 30+ minutes.

For somebody as big and athletic as him, he gets hung on screens every bit as much as Coby and Zach, and players go at him almost as much as they go at Coby 1-on-1 and he's been unable to stop them most of the time.

I've seen some improvement the last couple of games, but in terms of on-ball D, he's been bad to really bad for 95% of the season.

His problem on O is not his contribution per say when he gets the ball. His problem is that he is passive (which is easy to understand why), and a reluctant long ball shooter, despite good percentages. As a consequence, he's been getting the Dunn/Ronnie/Bogans/WCJ treatment--in essence his defenders tend to cheat off him because the opposing teams don't think he can hurt them meaningfully, even if left unchecked. They do the same with Temple, but after he makes a couple of 3s, they start sticking to him more.

So, as a subpar defender, and a Ronnie-like cutter on O, he's not starter level material on a playoff-push team. Not this year anyways. Yeah, I can see why they are excited about him, but on a true contender that didn't draft him 4th, he wouldn't sniff the court for more than 10 min / game, most of it in garbage time.

I understand that AKME is now almost done dumping Pax's latest draft picks, and having a quality team is heavily dependent on Pat developing into something much better than what he is now, but as of this year, he's getting playing time that's gifted, not earned.

1. His 30+ minutes per game are in part the result of entitlement. Or rather development. Entitlement is when you give veterans minutes just because they are vets (an old Thibs trait). Regardless, “unearned” is a fair term in either scenario even though the reasons are completely different. Patrick Lee Williams get his because the franchise thinks he’s special and they have determined this is the best way to develop him.

2. Who would you start over him and why? And would you take into consideration and balance of short and long term thinking or just one or the other?

I don't think it's necessarily about starting--it's more so the minutes he plays and the lack of opportunity he gets in said minutes. Pat gets less than a touch per minute played, dead last among the starters by a large margin. Vuc gets 2.5, Zach over 2, etc. I don't think him just hanging out on the court helps his development ANY and it definitely doesn't help the Bulls win games this year either. I'd prefer both for the Bulls to win AND to develop him. Him getting Bogans-level leftovers achieves neither IMO.

I'd rather he plays 20 min game off the bench being the focal point of the offense, if he can pull it off, than just doing nothing for 30+ min / game in a role that doesn't make the other starters' lives any easier because currently he's a plus on neither side of the ball.

I wouldn't necessarily demote him to the bench, but his minutes need to be cut and redistributed--probably for Lauri, Theis and Sato, depending on what works and what doesn't on any given night. If Pat's got it going--great, play him his 30 min. But otherwise, go for better D (Theis), vastly better O (Lauri) or much better playmaking (Sato). Each of these guys deserve an extra 3-4 minutes / game, the way they are currently playing.

[DuckIII]

That’s great analysis chefo. And it describes the “Coby White rookie development plan” which is certainly the more standard approach. No doubt what BD is doing is unusual.

The only issue I see is with your proposal is you have replacement minutes going to a 4, a 4/5 and a point guard.

[madvillian]

I think on balance there is no problem with him getting "entitlement" minutes. Let him get a bunch of stuff on film every night to work on. There isn't some bright line between "win now" and "win later" it's just a spectrum and it's up to Billy and the FO to figure out where they want to fall on that spectrum any given night.

Most rookies are bad, especially ones that are 19-20, so being bad is expected. There are stretches like last night where he just jumps off the screen on both ends and there are longer stretches were he just really does nothing. Well, we'll know more next season if he makes a jump into solid starter or not category. Development isn't guaranteed but at the same time it's much more likely with raw young players then a 22 year old 4 year college player. Patience is required here. Another controversial AK pick Porter Jr looked quite busty until the bubble. So, that's one recent example in Pat and AK's favor.

[chefo]

That’s great analysis chefo. And it describes the “Coby White rookie development plan” which is certainly the more standard approach. No doubt what BD is doing is unusual.

The only issue I see is with your proposal is you have replacement minutes going to a 4, a 4/5 and a point guard.

I actually think much more highly of Pat than I do of Coby. Pat has flashes where he looks straight up awesome. Pinpoint cross-court passes. Excellent elevation on his jumper. I mean, I actually think he has a better handle as a 6'7-6'8 F than Coby does as a 6'4 PG/SG.

The absolute best thing for the Bulls that he can turn out to be is a big point forward. Given his flashes of handle and vision, I am disappointed that he never has the ball in his hands. I think if you forced him to be a point F for 15 min/night, he'd go through a very rough stretch to start, but he'll improve by leaps and bounds when he gets a bit more comfortable, just like Jimmy did. He can't be any worse than Coby currently is in that role.

The current status quo is just putrid to me for all of what's left of our young guys.

* Lauri is still at 21&7 on 62%+ TS per 36 but doesn't see the floor... because Thad and Pat?

* Paw plays 30 min game, but doesn't get to do anything other than be a drag for most of his minutes. You can only score so much on cuts that depend on the D having a momentous lapse. He doesn't handle the ball, he doesn't get to play-make out of setting screens like Thad, he generally is used just as a below-average warm body.

* For some insane reason, we're back to Coby as a lead-guard, despite him falling on his face pretty much every time said experiment is being tried. Let the kid shoot and space. He should never be on the court without Sato or Zach, or both. We're wasting the one thing that's he's OK at. Even if he goes from worst rotational PG to an average one, what's the upside trying to turn him into a PG? I can see where if Pat develops into a decent point-F, there's a lot of good to follow... But going from a putrid PG to an average one--that doesn't move the needle at all. Hence, they should put the ball in Pat's hands with the second unit and make him to go work.

* On the second point--Sato is G, but a SF-sized one. He's actually a point-F as much as a PG. Lauri is a F that can shoot really well, but a C-sized one. Theis is a C that's PF sized, but moves like a SF. There's a lot of fun things you can try as a coach with these 3. Hence, I don't think it would be a problem.

[R3AL1TY]

Yeah, Pat is pretty close to taking his game to the next level but he won't be there yet due to his age and due to him not being a primary scorer. I agree with the idea of reducing his minutes a bit for now. I think once he figures out how to keep a scorer's mentality switch on alongside Vooch and Zach, that will make him become a true 3rd wheel. But for now, he will be an efficient role player giving you about 10 ppg and some defense. And that's still satisfying for a rookie.

[coldfish]

I said this kind of stuff in the game thread:
- Pat frequently gets blow byes against him when he is defending 1 on 1.
- Off ball, he will pass into the post and not cut hard. There is space for him and he is just lightly jogging through the play. There are other times where he simply moves very slowly off ball.

Overall, this isn't confusion type things. I have seen him move quick so I know he is capable. He seems really lazy. Another low motor player and I'm not sure how you fix that.

This last game against the Wolves was just a horrific performance.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Getting Tony Snell vibes from him. Snell could play 30 minutes some nights and you’d guess he got a DNP-CD.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Im all for pulling the string on Pat's minutes. We just arent in position for Pat to just chill through the game. The last 2 games were terrible.

The problem this seaosn is he like a robot where he is told to run to the corner in a play, and he ALWAYS does it. There is no deviation from it. Even on fast breaks, he just jogs to the corner. He effectively takes himself out of the offense.

I absolutely love his upside and I think he will be amazing years from now, but right now we have to hold him to a higher standard or limit his minutes.

[fleet]

Im all for pulling the string on Pat's minutes. We just arent in position for Pat to just chill through the game. The last 2 games were terrible.

The problem this seaosn is he like a robot where he is told to run to the corner in a play, and he ALWAYS does it. There is no deviation from it. Even on fast breaks, he just jogs to the corner. He effectively takes himself out of the offense.

I absolutely love his upside and I think he will be amazing years from now, but right now we have to hold him to a higher standard or limit his minutes.

Coaches aren’t used to players doing what they are told to do 100%. Now Billy has to tell Pat to not do what he was told, and then Pat has to calculate what amount of obedience he has to honor when being told not to do what he was told to do.