Matas Progress Tracker

[Jcool0]

I mean last year he started 78 games and averaged 19.1/5.1/3.3
This year he's started 48 games and averaged 18.5/4.5/3.3

His efficiency numbers are decent, not great, not bad. He's a threat as a three point shooter off the dribble or in catch and shoot, and has a quick release so you have to keep a body on him. His defense is below average, but not Josh Giddey bad. He can play on or off ball and is solid as a combo guard and can score from multiple places on the floor and fit in well with most backcourt players because of his versatility.

I'm not sure what your bar for "solid starter" is, but I don't see how Coby White doesn't qualify as a "solid starter" which I would view typically as the 4th best guy in your starting lineup and ~90th-120th best player in the league type of guy. That seems like a more or less fair spot to lump in Coby IMO.

If Coby is your 4th starter you aren't going anywhere. He is terrible on defense. Terrible trying to be a PG. Never makes the correct play.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends who the top 3 starters are, but the median 4th starter in the NBA is the 105th best player in the league, I'd guess Coby is inside the top 105 best players.

#193

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/page/4

[dougthonus]

If Coby is your 4th starter you aren't going anywhere. He is terrible on defense. Terrible trying to be a PG. Never makes the correct play.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends who the top 3 starters are, but the median 4th starter in the NBA is the 105th best player in the league, I'd guess Coby is inside the top 105 best players.

#193

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/page/4

If you want to rank guys by PER like it's 2004, okay. Even John Hollinger, the guy who created PER, no longer uses PER, and I'm appreciative of PER for his its time, it was the first decent stat that got you to look beyond PPG.

Google searched top 100 NBA players, here are the first six hits with rankings:

ESPN has Coby ranked 58
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41555759/nba-rank-2024-2025-best-players-100-51

The Ringer has Coby ranked 70
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

NBA2k Has him ranked ~80
https://www.nba.com/news/nba-2k25-top-100-player-ratings-announced

Hoops Hype has him ranked 70
https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-ranking-top-100-players-2024-25/

CBS has him ranked 71
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-top-100-players-ranked-how-lebron-james-jayson-tatum-anthony-edwards-stack-up-ahead-of-2024-25-season/

Washington Post 61
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/interactive/2024/nba-top-100-players-ranking/

[Jcool0]

Maybe, maybe not. Depends who the top 3 starters are, but the median 4th starter in the NBA is the 105th best player in the league, I'd guess Coby is inside the top 105 best players.

#193

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/page/4

If you want to rank guys by PER like it's 2004, okay. Even John Hollinger, the guy who created PER, no longer uses PER, and I'm appreciative of PER for his its time, it was the first decent stat that got you to look beyond PPG.

Google searched top 100 NBA players, here are the first six hits with rankings:

ESPN has Coby ranked 58
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41555759/nba-rank-2024-2025-best-players-100-51

The Ringer has Coby ranked 70
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

NBA2k Has him ranked ~80
https://www.nba.com/news/nba-2k25-top-100-player-ratings-announced

Hoops Hype has him ranked 70
https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-ranking-top-100-players-2024-25/

CBS has him ranked 71
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-top-100-players-ranked-how-lebron-james-jayson-tatum-anthony-edwards-stack-up-ahead-of-2024-25-season/

Washington Post 61
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/interactive/2024/nba-top-100-players-ranking/

I could care less what mike john in the NY Post thinks are the top 8000 NBA players are. That is just one persons arbitrary opinion. Who ever puts together these ranking could base them on how cold each city is. I could make a list that has Zach Lavine in the top 25 NBA players. Is it a fact he is? If i asked 100 NBA reporters 95 would say i'm crazy but it doesn't change my list. Or if i had LeBron #2 best player in 2012. Is that true? Probably not but it will get my article clicks.

Here is another statistical ranking:

#195 overall.

#11 worst defender

https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-application/

[dougthonus]

I could care less what mike john in the NY Post thinks are the top 8000 NBA players are. That is just one persons arbitrary opinion. Who ever puts together these ranking could base them on how cold each city is. I could make a list that has Zach Lavine in the top 25 NBA players. Is it a fact he is? If i asked 100 NBA reporters 95 would say i'm crazy but it doesn't change my list. Or if i had LeBron #2 best player in 2012. Is that true? Probably not but it will get my article clicks.

Here is another statistical ranking:

#195 overall.

#11 worst defender

https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-application/

If you don't like Coby fair enough, not trying to change your mind, but the vast majority of experts would view him in the "solid starter" range.

[Jcool0]

I could care less what mike john in the NY Post thinks are the top 8000 NBA players are. That is just one persons arbitrary opinion. Who ever puts together these ranking could base them on how cold each city is. I could make a list that has Zach Lavine in the top 25 NBA players. Is it a fact he is? If i asked 100 NBA reporters 95 would say i'm crazy but it doesn't change my list. Or if i had LeBron #2 best player in 2012. Is that true? Probably not but it will get my article clicks.

Here is another statistical ranking:

#195 overall.

#11 worst defender

https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-application/

If you don't like Coby fair enough, not trying to change your mind, but the vast majority of experts would view him in the "solid starter" range.

Not sure i would use the term experts and i also wouldn't be say vast majority either. But all the statistical evidence say he is closer to the 200th best player then 105. And reporters/columnists say he is in the top 100 (i would guess 90% of them have watch 0 Bulls minutes this year). But what everyone can agree on this Bulls teams is bad and Coby isn't helping very much to change that.

[dougthonus]

Not sure i would use the term experts and i also wouldn't be say vast majority either. But all the statistical evidence say he is closer to the 200th best player then 105. And reporters/columnists say he is in the top 100 (i would guess 90% of them have watch 0 Bulls minutes this year). But what everyone can agree on this Bulls teams is bad and Coby isn't helping very much to change that.

FWIW, I would make the same argument towards Vuc, in years where the experts would say otherwise, so I hear you.

I disagree on Coby, and I think "all statistical evidence" is a bit of a stretch. If you look at any of his raw productivity metrics they would show he is better. That said, to shoot myself in the foot, same could be said of Vuc and I don't believe it.

Either way, I don't view "solid starter" as a guy who has a big impact on winning, he's a guy you can put in, and he doesn't cause you to lose. That's sort of how I view Coby, not as a guy who moves the needle positively, but a guy whom can play multiple roles without moving it negatively and fit in with a lot of players.

But again, I hear you on the arguments around his generally poor impact metrics, pedestrian efficiency, lack luster defense (I think he's better than you, but still below average).

[cocktailswith_2short]

I look forward to the point in this thread when he inevitably replaces Pat in the starting lineup. Probably around page 28 or so.

eerily close ...... Nostradamushomosapien

[Jcool0]

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[Chi town]

Buz would need to average 18ppg the rest of the way to have a shot at ROY

[Jcool0]

Buz would need to average 18ppg the rest of the way to have a shot at ROY

Why?

[cocktailswith_2short]

Buz would need to average 18ppg the rest of the way to have a shot at ROY

It's doable he should be our de facto number one option .

[Muzbar]

Buz would need to average 18ppg the rest of the way to have a shot at ROY

It's doable he should be our de facto number one option .

With Coby and Vuc still on the roster that's not going to happen.

[Jcool0]

Last 8 games:

Buzelis: 14.1 ppg on 9 FGA (60/42/77) with 3.4 rebounds and 1.3 blocks.

Castle: 18.3 ppg on 12.8 FGA (49/44/78) with 3.6 rebounds and 1.3 steals.

[Muzbar]

Last 8 games:

Buzelis: 14.1 ppg on 9 FGA (60/42/77) with 3.4 rebounds and 1.3 blocks.

Castle: 18.3 ppg on 12.8 FGA (49/44/78) with 3.6 rebounds and 1.3 steals.

Yeah, I believe Castle has it in the bag at this point.

Buzelis would have to go nuclear to get it, hell he may not even make the all rookie 2nd team.

[Jcool0]

Last 8 games:

Buzelis: 14.1 ppg on 9 FGA (60/42/77) with 3.4 rebounds and 1.3 blocks.

Castle: 18.3 ppg on 12.8 FGA (49/44/78) with 3.6 rebounds and 1.3 steals.

Yeah, I believe Castle has it in the bag at this point.

Buzelis would have to go nuclear to get it, hell he may not even make the all rookie 2nd team.

Castle is still overall at 12.9 ppg (42/28/73), 2.8 rebounds and 3.5 assists so wouldn't say he has it completely in the bag.

[Muzbar]

Last 8 games:

Buzelis: 14.1 ppg on 9 FGA (60/42/77) with 3.4 rebounds and 1.3 blocks.

Castle: 18.3 ppg on 12.8 FGA (49/44/78) with 3.6 rebounds and 1.3 steals.

Yeah, I believe Castle has it in the bag at this point.

Buzelis would have to go nuclear to get it, hell he may not even make the all rookie 2nd team.

Castle is still overall at 12.9 ppg (42/28/73), 2.8 rebounds and 3.5 assists so wouldn't say he has it completely in the bag.

I'm not sure who else would surpass him? Edey perhaps? Castle has been steadily improving as the season has gone on. Edey has been in and out of the line-up with injuries.

[Jcool0]

Yeah, I believe Castle has it in the bag at this point.

Buzelis would have to go nuclear to get it, hell he may not even make the all rookie 2nd team.

Castle is still overall at 12.9 ppg (42/28/73), 2.8 rebounds and 3.5 assists so wouldn't say he has it completely in the bag.

I'm not sure who else would surpass him? Edey perhaps? Castle has been steadily improving as the season has gone on. Edey has been in and out of the line-up with injuries.

Risacher last 8 games: 16 ppg (10 FGA) on 59/49/73 with 2.3 rebounds and 1.3 assists.

[Muzbar]

Castle is still overall at 12.9 ppg (42/28/73), 2.8 rebounds and 3.5 assists so wouldn't say he has it completely in the bag.

I'm not sure who else would surpass him? Edey perhaps? Castle has been steadily improving as the season has gone on. Edey has been in and out of the line-up with injuries.

Risacher last 8 games: 16 ppg (10 FGA) on 59/49/73 with 2.3 rebounds and 1.3 assists.

Nice.

I actually didn't know he'd been playing well lately, it's good they've been sticking with him as a starter also.

[sco]

I'm not sure who else would surpass him? Edey perhaps? Castle has been steadily improving as the season has gone on. Edey has been in and out of the line-up with injuries.

Risacher last 8 games: 16 ppg (10 FGA) on 59/49/73 with 2.3 rebounds and 1.3 assists.

Nice.

I actually didn't know he'd been playing well lately, it's good they've been sticking with him as a starter also.

I'm not rooting for Matas to win any rookie honors. I want him to come back hungry. Also, don't want to give AK anything to say about his role in getting Matas.

[Chi town]

Buz would need to average 18ppg the rest of the way to have a shot at ROY

It's doable he should be our de facto number one option .

With Coby and Vuc still on the roster that's not going to happen.

Bingo